JMS Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/ResourcesForYou/ucm134441.htm Study: U.S. Generic Drugs Cost Less Than Canadian Drugs NOBODY? HELLO? Yes yes, but the net effect is the American consumer pays the highest cost for drugs in the world... And the reason is because our regulations allow it. There is no other reason.. We do not have a system designed to deliver services to our consumers.. we have a system designed to deliver profits for our corporations.. Our domestic drug market isn't even good at providing drugs to our country even as we pay two or three times what other countries pay. http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/health/us-pays-more-for-drugs/ Why pharmaceuticals are cheaper abroad How much drugs cost in the U.S. According to the International Federation of Health Plans, Americans pay anywhere from two to six times more than the rest of the world for brand name prescription drugs.[/size] http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/835182 Why Are Drug Costs So High in the United States? The United States has the dubious honor of paying the highest costs for drugs in the world, even compared with other wealthy nations, such as Canada, Germany, and Japan. The difference in price can often be substantial, especially among the newer and very costly agents that have recently come on the market. http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-u-s-pays-more-than-other-countries-for-drugs-1448939481 Why the U.S. Pays More Than Other Countries for Drugs http://usuncut.com/news/us-drug-prices-in-the-us-are-literally-insane-when-compared-to-other-nations/ This chart reveals the inhumanity of US drug prices compared to other countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Everybody wanted something like Obamacare. If their side supported it, the other didn't. Then flip. It's stupid. No, Obamacare or the ACA was always a very modest conservative reform involving only a fraction of the healthcare market.. It's designed to get more people heathcare, make sure those people with insurance don't go bankrupt because their plans don't provide adequate coverage, and to save us money while doing such.. save us what 190 billion over the first 10 years right... 190 billion sounds pretty good doesn't it... Guess what we spend 17% of our GDP on healthcare.. so we are spending roughly about 1000 billion every year.. so saving 19 billion or 1.9% savings is I think you will agree conservative. Especially when you consider we spend twice the % of our GDP and roughly twice the dollars per citizen than the most expensive of the alternative plans. So there are a lot of savings to be had there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Throwing a temper tantrum and crying that Cruz stole his votes in Iowa is a VERY good place to start. http://thehill.com/homenews/news/268148-trump-goes-on-attack-over-cruzs-win-in-iowa Please Trump, implode for me....I just want to watch. Trump needs to learn that Sour Grapes Make for a Bitter Whine.*** *** Copyright Dan T., 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I know some Canadians that disagree with you. I think Ted Cruz is the only Canadian who doesn't like the Canadian healthcare system. Canadians overwhelmingly love their healthcare system.. the claims otherwise are just FUD coming from our benevolent overlords who are are starting to hear footsteps threatening their gravy train. Competition between pharma companies absolutely 100% exists. If that's true, then how come Americans spend 2-6 times what everybody else in the world spends on pharma drugs annually? http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/health/us-pays-more-for-drugs/ CNN 9/28/2015 Why pharmaceuticals are cheaper abroad According to the International Federation of Health Plans, Americans pay anywhere from two to six times more than the rest of the world for brand name prescription drugs. Question... If we have competition that means we have a free market and if we have a free market that means we have a very efficient delivery processes for our consumers. So How come the socialists are kicking our asses on price point? Answer.. we don't have competition, we don't have a free market.. we have our own highly regulated market just like they do. only their markets are designed to deliver goods at a reasonable cost to their people.. Our highly regulated market is designed to deliver profits to our corporations.... and both our markets are working great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Latest CNN Poll for New Hampshire. Trump 29, Rubio 18, Cruz 13, Kasich 12, Bush 10, Christie 5 If accurate very good news for Rubio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 We have a very fake sort of competition. They are most certainly in cahoots in terms of pricing, much how like airlines watch each other and juggle their prices in lockstep with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 why do so many Canadians come here for health care if they love it so? in fact why do so many from all over the world do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Yeah, I think winning Iowa (even if it was pretty close to a tie) gave him a boost. That word, "winner", counts for something, even when it's only by a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 why do so many Canadians come here for health care if they love it so? in fact why do so many from all over the world do so? meanwhile in NH Ben Carson’s entire NH super PAC staff quit and joined Ted Cruz’s campaignhttp://www.boston.com/news/politics/2016/01/11/ben-carson-entire-super-pac-staff-quit-and-joined-ted-cruz-campaign/mTaafD40dEsjPsbFiLrRpO/story.html?s_campaign=bcom:gigya:twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Ben Carson’s entire NH super PAC staff quit and joined Ted Cruz’s campaign http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2016/01/11/ben-carson-entire-super-pac-staff-quit-and-joined-ted-cruz-campaign/mTaafD40dEsjPsbFiLrRpO/story.html?s_campaign=bcom:gigya:twitter Obviously, he told them Carson was through. (Now, who's going to tell Carson?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 why do so many Canadians come here for health care if they love it so? in fact why do so many from all over the world do so? I've never met a Canadian who didn't prefer the Canadian system. Gallop Poll... http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx ------------------Satisfied------------------Dissatisfied USA__________25%___________________ 72% Canada_______57%___________________ 41% UK___________43%___________________ 52% http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2009/08/never-mind-the-anecdotes-do-canadians-like-their-health-care-system.html Chicago Tribune 2009 By an overwhelming margin, Canadians prefer the Canadian health care system to the American one. Overall, 82% said they preferred the Canadian system, fully ten times the number who said the American system is superior (8%)....from a Harris-Decima poll (.pdf), July 2009. . The vast majority of Canadians, 91 per cent, felt that Canada's health care system was better than the United States...CTV, a Canadian television network, Jun. 29 2008, reporting on a survey, conducted by the Strategic Counsel for CTV and The Globe and Mail. In November 2004, Canadians voted Tommy Douglas, Canada's 'father of Medicare'") the Greatest Canadian of all time following a nationwide contest."... CBC People in Canada and Great Britain are significantly more satisfied with availability of affordable healthcare than their American counterparts[/size]...Gallup Poll, March, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 why do so many Canadians come here for health care if they love it so? in fact why do so many from all over the world do so? Why do so many Americans go abroad for care (over Half a million)? More Americans are going abroad for care than other nationalities coming here. Why do you think that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Cruz campaign manager denying everything on CNN after voicemails by his campaign telling people that Carson was quitting are played on CNN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Cruz campaign manager denying everything on CNN after voicemails by his campaign telling people that Carson was quitting are played on CNN. Is this still about Iowa or did they do it again in NH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Is this still about Iowa or did they do it again in NH? Iowa still. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/carly-fiorina-excluded-from-next-gop-debate-218769 Carly Fiorina excluded from next GOP debate Carly Fiorina has been excluded from Saturday's Republican debate in Manchester, New Hampshire, ABC News announced on Thursday. The former Hewlett-Packard CEO has lagged her GOP rivals in national and state-level polls, but she complained in an open letter to the Republican National Committee on Wednesday that the debate process is "broken" and urged the RNC to intervene on her behalf. “Networks are making up these debate rules as they go along — not to be able to fit candidates on the stage — but arbitrarily to decide which candidates make for the best TV in their opinion," she wrote. "Now it is time for the RNC to act in the best interest of the Party that it represents.” ABC News will not hold an undercard debate for the bottom tier of the winnowing field. Qualifications for the main debate stage included ranking among the top three in the Iowa caucuses, top six in New Hampshire polls or top six nationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Yes yes, but the net effect is the American consumer pays the highest cost for drugs in the world... And the reason is because our regulations allow it. There is no other reason.. We do not have a system designed to deliver services to our consumers.. we have a system designed to deliver profits for our corporations.. Our domestic drug market isn't even good at providing drugs to our country even as we pay two or three times what other countries pay I just want to point out that not a single one of your links actually demonstrates that when you take into account the number and types of drugs taken in the US as compared to other countries that we actually pay more. Not a single one actually supports your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Is this still about Iowa or did they do it again in NH? Does CNN care? CNN clearly released the meme Carson was not going to NH or SC and taking a break,,,,Cruz's camp went with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Why do so many Americans go abroad for care (over Half a million)? More Americans are going abroad for care than other nationalities coming here. Why do you think that is? Many go to Mexico from Texas because it is cheaper and no insurance....my neighbor does for his cancer treatments they come here for more advanced treatments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (1) private industry conducts most of the research and is awarded most of the patents in the software and computer industry.. (2) Public research conducts most of the research and is awarded most of the patents in the pharma industry. As such if you are buying a computer you have choices of HW, Software OS's and application os none of that exists in the pharma. I think you are completely making stuff up now and can't even come close to supporting your arguments. CONSERVATIVE estimates of ONLY big Pharms (excludes all the little companies out there) puts R&D cost at tens of billions of dollars. http://www.randalolson.com/2015/03/01/design-critique-putting-big-pharma-spending-in-perspective/ (To put the numbers at that link in some even more context, a company like J&J is heavily driving by non-healthcare consumer products. Pepsico (a consumer products driven company to compare with) spends about 2X as much on marketing as R&D. http://www.thestreet.com/story/13291280/1/pepsico%E2%80%99s-big-spending-on-r-d-is-paying-off.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-01-27/pepsico-may-boost-marketing-budget-to-take-on-a-surging-coca-cola-retail ) The NIH TOTAL budget (so that is everything including administrative costs and programs that are primarily geared to education and other things) is about 30 billion. The other issue is that your point is essentially irrelevant because Pharma has to pay to use those patents, but I think the fact that you cannot support your arguments is more telling. And if you want to speak very generally like that, I can go to a pharmacy and buy lots of drug made by lots of different companies. Why do so many Americans go abroad for care (over Half a million)? More Americans are going abroad for care than other nationalities coming here. Why do you think that is? Do you actually have a link that gives numbers with a comparison of the two numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 And if you want to speak very generally like that, I can go to a pharmacy and buy lots of drug made by lots of different companies. Do you actually have a link that gives numbers with a comparison of the two numbers? CDC numbers here "Medical tourism" refers to traveling to another country for medical care. It's estimated that up to 750,000 US residents travel abroad for care each year. Many people who travel for care do so because treatment is much cheaper in another country. In addition, a large number of medical tourists are immigrants to the United States returning to their home country for care. The most common procedures that people undergo on medical tourism trips include cosmetic surgery, dentistry, and heart surgery. http://www.cdc.gov/features/medicaltourism/ http://news.health.com/2009/04/08/traveling-treatment/ Haven't been able to find reliable information for patients traveling to the United States but I doubt it is nearly a million (I had seen around 50-100 thousand quoted but I can't find the original article) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 CDC numbers here http://www.cdc.gov/features/medicaltourism/ http://news.health.com/2009/04/08/traveling-treatment/ You said many more were leaving than coming. Drawing that conclusion requires more than 1 number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 You said many more were leaving than coming. Drawing that conclusion requires more than 1 number. Finally found a source that had both numbers, according to patients beyond borders they had 1.2 million Americans going abroad with 600,000-800,000 coming to the United States. http://www.patientsbeyondborders.com/medical-tourism-statistics-facts Despite the high price of treatment, between 600,000 and 800,000 foreign patients opted for U.S.-based treatment last year, according to Patients Beyond Borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Finally found a source that had both numbers, according to patients beyond borders they had 1.2 million Americans going abroad with 600,000-800,000 coming to the United States. http://www.patientsbeyondborders.com/medical-tourism-statistics-facts Do you think that a company that is trying to promote people leaving the US to get healthcare might be prone to over inflate the number of people doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Do you think that a company that is trying to promote people leaving the US to get healthcare might be prone to over inflate the number of people doing it? I have seen higher numbers from other sources, but those were the first/only numbers I saw that included both Americans leaving for medical tourism and foreigners coming to America for medical tourism, if you have better more reliable numbers I would love to see them because it seems like the reporting on the numbers is all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 there is also the matter of going for treatments not allowed here ya'll dont wanna talk about the election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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