***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Going Commando]

I don't have a ton of faith in Wiggins becoming a superstar or top ten player.

The issue for me is the lack of competitiveness. There were way too many times where Wiggins was just another guy for Kansas. Physically, he's a freak. A 6'8 Derrick Rose. But he's too content to blend in and be an average wing player with a sketchy outside shot.

That's why I would absolutely deal him for Love today, because I doubt he would ever net a greater return value than that.

And that's also why I'd prefer a package of Chicago's good players and prospects over a Cleveland package built around Wiggins.

Bennett has no trade value whatsoever. He's a negative value because his salary is high and he showed so little promise as a rookie that he's not even a rotation-worthy player right now. He already looks like a historic bust of a #1 pick. The Cavs did him no favors picking him first overall. Let's not act like he's any sort of carrot for either Cleveland or Minnesota.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And that's also why I'd prefer a package of Chicago's good players and prospects over a Cleveland package built around Wiggins.

Bennett has no trade value whatsoever. He's a negative value because his salary is high and he showed so little promise as a rookie that he's not even a rotation-worthy player right now. He already looks like a historic bust of a #1 pick. The Cavs did him no favors picking him first overall. Let's not act like he's any sort of carrot for either Cleveland or Minnesota.

 

Bennett's salary is not terrible. He's still on a rookie deal. It's higher than most because where he was picked, but it's not crippling. I would take him back because I do think he can be a decent player at some point. He's never going to be a star. But if I didn't draft him #1, why does that matter to me? In Cleveland, he's always going to be the #1 #1 who didn't make it. In Minny, he can be a pretty good starter someday maybe.

 

And I think you are crazy if you think that Chicago package is worth anything. A bunch of guys who were the 3rd or 4th offensive option on a team that cannot score. I tend to think of Chicago basketball players the way I do New England football players; they have value because of where they are not what they can do.

 

I like the idea of Wiggins-Bennett because:

 

1. It buys me time with my fans

2. It has the potential to be the best package

 

I'm not 100 percent certain that Klay Thompson is not anything other than a good shooting guard on a team without Curry. And I'm not sure how he is going to do with a point guard who can't shoot at all. That's the problem with Rubio. He not only lacks a jumper, but he's atrocious at the rim too.

 

http://hoopshype.com/columns/david-nurse/how-to-fix-ricky-rubios-shot

 

If I'm Minny, I get Wiggins, Bennett and a nutritionist and a personal trainer for Bennett and try to run teams out of the building with athleticism. (Bennett is supposedly an outstanding athlete somewhere in there). Rubio can lead a fast break at least. And I try to turn Minnesota into an advantage. No team wants to be there. And they certainly do not want to play an up-tempo game there on a Tuesday. Use that to my advantage.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Kosher Ham]

I guess I just don't think Love is as valuable as most.

 

Pretty good player, young, versatile.

No defense, not a leader, and the star on a crappy team.

 

Ehh... I wouldn't throw my eggs in that basket over keeping Wiggins.

 

I think we have opposite views on both players.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

I don't have a ton of faith in Wiggins becoming a superstar or top ten player.

The issue for me is the lack of competitiveness. There were way too many times where Wiggins was just another guy for Kansas. Physically, he's a freak. A 6'8 Derrick Rose. But he's too content to blend in and be an average wing player with a sketchy outside shot.

That's why I would absolutely deal him for Love today, because I doubt he would ever net a greater return value than that.

And that's also why I'd prefer a package of Chicago's good players and prospects over a Cleveland package built around Wiggins.

Bennett has no trade value whatsoever. He's a negative value because his salary is high and he showed so little promise as a rookie that he's not even a rotation-worthy player right now. He already looks like a historic bust of a #1 pick. The Cavs did him no favors picking him first overall. Let's not act like he's any sort of carrot for either Cleveland or Minnesota.

Is this a Canada thing? Is that you Jason Whitlock?

I give Bennett much of same slack I give Otto Porter on a busted rookie year. The kid was fat and out of shape after recovering from shoulder surgery. Guy couldn't even spend five minutes on the court without huffing and puffing. He started to get into shape and then had a knee injury. Being coached by Mike Brown didn't help. I didn't think he had the work ethic to do it, but he looked like a completely different human being in Summer League, though. He has an NBA body now and a great teacher who is known a a disciplinarian.

I fully expect him to prove he belongs this year. Wherever he ends up.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I guess I just don't think Love is as valuable as most.

 

Pretty good player, young, versatile.

No defense, not a leader, and the star on a crappy team.

 

Ehh... I wouldn't throw my eggs in that basket over keeping Wiggins.

 

I think we have opposite views on both players.

 

Do you think Wiggins ever puts up on 26/12/4 season in his career? Do you think he ever finishes in the Top 3 in PER?

 

And couldn't you have written the exact same thing about the Toronto version of Chris Bosh?

 

I also think there is more to defense than just being a one on one defender - which Love ain't great at. Thankfully, he would never be asked to defend a real front-line threat in Cleveland. Love is the best defensive rebounder in the league not named Dwight Howard. And he converts those rebounds to offense better than anyone since....I dunno...Robert Parish maybe? That's value even if you aren't swallowing up a scorer.

 

Irving....I'll give you is a terrible defender. I like to think that's just because he's never really cared and may start with Lebron giving him the Chalmers headshake once a game.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Kosher Ham]

Absolutely you could have with Bosh. I was thinking the same when I was typing it.

 

I think the ceiling has been reached for Love. Bosh didn't have the chance to score that way with LeBron and Wade and likely Wiggins won't either. Bosh however was able to expand his game and I think he will be the Batman this time around.

 

I see him as a perfect Robin to LeBrons Batman in this scenario. I see Love more like ehh...I don't follow comics close enough to know who else helped Batman. But a lesser role.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Absolutely you could have with Bosh. I was thinking the same when I was typing it.

 

I think the ceiling has been reached for Love. Bosh didn't have the chance to score that way with LeBron and Wade and likely Wiggins won't either. Bosh however was able to expand his game and I think he will be the Batman this time around.

 

I see him as a perfect Robin to LeBrons Batman in this scenario. I see Love more like ehh...I don't follow comics close enough to know who else helped Batman. But a lesser role.

 

Love and Bosh aren't the same player. But I think Love actually fits a lot more naturally than Lebron on offense.

 

Actually, Lebron, Irving, and Love fit together really really well in theory. Much better than Lebron, Wade, and Bosh did in 2010. In 2010, none of them really had a three point game, so it was three guys who all scored within 15 feet trying to figure out how to play together.

 

Irving and Love are both capable of shooting the three and I think that playing with Lebron (the best inside out passer in basketball) will only help that. And Lebron went from a 33 percent shooter in Cleveland to a guy who can get up to 40 percent from 3. Love, Irving, and Lebron could - again in theory - use every conceivable part of the floor. Which is what San Antonio does so well.

But I really don't see what any of this has to do with the Hornets.

[Taylor703]

What if Wiggins transforms into a top 10 player? I mean it wouldn't be crazy to think the #1 pick could be a superstar.

Kevin Love IS a top 10 player. There is no "what if" scenario with him. Take the sure thing that's still in his mid-twenties.

[Kosher Ham]

Hornets ? Ummm ???

 

LeBron is not leaving Cleveland. He said, no guarantees, patience, etc.

 

Build that team. Lots of young talent that he can really be "the king" and lead, develop, nurture.

 

I would give Minnesota 3 first round picks for Love before I would give up Wiggins.

[Taylor703]

Hornets ? Ummm ???

 

LeBron is not leaving Cleveland. He said, no guarantees, patience, etc.

 

Build that team. Lots of young talent that he can really be "the king" and lead, develop, nurture.

 

I would give Minnesota 3 first round picks for Love before I would give up Wiggins.

And this is exactly why people end up with blenders instead of cars on game shows...."sure there's a corvette behind door number 1 but I've just got to know what's behind door number 2"

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Hornets ? Ummm ???

 

LeBron is not leaving Cleveland. He said, no guarantees, patience, etc.

 

Build that team. Lots of young talent that he can really be "the king" and lead, develop, nurture.

 

I would give Minnesota 3 first round picks for Love before I would give up Wiggins.

 

Lebron also signed what is essentially a one-year deal.

 

And he is going to be 30. How many years does he want to "nurture" talent before he can win?

 

Lebron, Love, and Irving is a core that would probably be a heavy favorite in the East for the next five years.

[Bubble Screen]

I guess I just don't think Love is as valuable as most.

Pretty good player, young, versatile.

No defense, not a leader, and the star on a crappy team.

Ehh... I wouldn't throw my eggs in that basket over keeping Wiggins.

I think we have opposite views on both players.

Love is more than a "pretty good player". He's arguably a top 5 player. Definitely top 10.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Lebron also signed what is essentially a one-year deal.

We all know why players like LeBron and Stephenson took short deals, man.

He's staying. His family wants him there and wants to be there to watch Bronny Jr. take over his old HS in a few years.

[Kosher Ham]

Lebron also signed what is essentially a one-year deal.

 

And he is going to be 30. How many years does he want to "nurture" talent before he can win?

 

Lebron, Love, and Irving is a core that would probably be a heavy favorite in the East for the next five years.

 

My point is give up anything but Wiggins. The term of his deal is so that he can sign a bigger deal down the road.

[Sticksboi05]

Love is more than a "pretty good player". He's arguably a top 5 player. Definitely top 10.

 

Top 5, no way.  He has nice stats but he pads them playing meaningless games, many of which are blowouts and you cannot throw him the ball down the stretch and say, go get me a bucket, the game is tied.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Sticksboi05

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Top 5, no way.  He has nice stats but he pads them playing meaningless games, many of which are blowouts and you cannot throw him the ball down the stretch and say, go get me a bucket, the game is tied.

If he somehow goes to Cleveland without having his numbers cut by a 3rd or more like Bosh did, I'll begin to entertain his opinion.

[Going Commando]

Love isn't top five. LeBron, Durant, Griffin, Paul, Dwight. That's five that are better right there.

But he's probably top ten. There is a lot of flux going on in the top ten. Are Dirk, Kobe, and Derrick Rose still top ten players? Wade and Bosh? Tony Parker? Dirk probably still is, but I don't know about any of the others.

Is James Harden a top ten player? Is Paul George? I would think Love is more deserving of that kind of ranking than they are. Maybe more deserving than Melo too, but I'm not convinced about that one yet.

I think that today, Love is in the 5-11 tier with Dirk, Westbrook, Melo, Curry, and LaMarcus Aldridge.

[Bubble Screen]

Top 5, no way. He has nice stats but he pads them playing meaningless games, many of which are blowouts and you cannot throw him the ball down the stretch and say, go get me a bucket, the game is tied.

No way? Of course he would be in the mix.

Love isn't top five. LeBron, Durant, Griffin, Paul, Dwight. That's five that are better right there.

But he's probably top ten. There is a lot of flux going on in the top ten. Are Dirk, Kobe, and Derrick Rose still top ten players? Wade and Bosh? Tony Parker? Dirk probably still is, but I don't know about any of the others.

Is James Harden a top ten player? Is Paul George? I would think Love is more deserving of that kind of ranking than they are. Maybe more deserving than Melo too, but I'm not convinced about that one yet.

I think that today, Love is in the 5-11 tier with Dirk, Westbrook, Melo, Curry, and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Dwight wasn't even the top center last year.

And "probably" top 10? Tell me you were joking.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Bubble Screen

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

No way? Of course he would be in the mix.

Dwight wasn't even the top center last year.

If he doesn't develop an allergy to paint and keeps up his defensive rebounding rate on a team with LeBron/Another star I'm definitely with you. I don't think he's a Shareef Abudr-Rahim in terms of putting up numbers on a losing squad, I just want to see what his game looks like on a real team first.

I think I know who you think the top center was...

Edited July 24, 2014 by EvilMonkeyBoy

[Kosher Ham]

I played ball with Rahim back in the day. He was still in H.S.

 

Crazy reference. Kudos.

[Bubble Screen]

If he doesn't develop an allergy to paint and keeps up his defensive rebounding rate on a team with LeBron/Another star I'm definitely with you. I don't think he's a Shareef Abudr-Rahim in terms of putting up numbers on a losing squad, I just want to see what his game looks like on a real team first.

I think I know who you think the top center was...

Cousins was the best center. You probably thought I was going to say Jefferson. And you can make a case he was better, too. And maybe Noah also.

I'm not saying Love is 'definitely' top 5. But for someone to say "no way", or "probably top 10", well, that's pretty silly. Especially the latter.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Bubble Screen

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Cousins was the best center. You probably thought I was going to say Jefferson. And you can make a case he was better, too. And maybe Noah also.

I'm not saying Love is 'definitely' top 5. But for someone to say "no way", or "probably top 10", well, that's pretty silly. Especially the latter.

Nope, I knew you were gonna say Cousins I was just yanking your chain. I think it was Cousins in the regular season as well, but Dwight did step up in the playoffs in a way I didn't think he was capable of, even if it was all for naught. I'm not gonna penalize Cousins for who he played with so I can't do it to Dwight either.

[Bubble Screen]

Nope, I knew you were gonna say Cousins I was just yanking your chain. I think it was Cousins in the regular season as well, but Dwight did step up in the playoffs in a way I didn't think he was capable of, even if it was all for naught. I'm not gonna penalize Cousins for who he played with so I can't do it to Dwight either.

Dwight did step it up in playoffs, true. But if I'm going off the entire season, I'm not putting him in top 5.

Another reason is, Dwight can often be a liability in the 4th quarter, because of his poor FT shooting. If you're (his critics) going to penalize Love for not being a great defender, then you have to penalize DH for his FTs.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Bubble Screen

[Going Commando]

Dwight Howard is obviously the best C in the league. DeMarcus Cousins and Al Jefferson are not better than him.

[Bubble Screen]

Dwight Howard is obviously the best C in the league. DeMarcus Cousins and Al Jefferson are not better than him.

That's like, your opinion.

Howard wasn't the best C last year. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.