***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Bozo the kKklown]

Also, I think its pretty clear Curry is the most impactful offensive player we have seen probably since Shaq. 

 

And honestly, bigger than Shaq because you could prevent Shaq from getting the ball. Curry is dangerous off the ball too.

 

Maybe even greater than Jordan with regards to offensive impact?

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Isiah Thomas made a point that I missed during the game. When Livingston got the ball. He looked at Curry which caused to defenders to drift towards Curry which left Iggy wide open. Curry warps the space around him. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Dr. Do Itch Big

[CrypticVillain]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Isiah Thomas made a point that I missed during the game. When Livingston got the ball. He looked at Curry which caused to defenders to drift towards Curry which left Iggy wide open. Curry warps the space around him. 

Something else I didn't see during the game that Jay Williams pointed out this morning... I thought Van Fleet plucked Curry on that shot, but Jay said Curry actually bounced the all further away to avoid getting plucked. Had he not done that, Van Fleet actually had his hand on the ball and that would have been an easy steal and dunk for the Raptors...

Everything that could go wrong, went wrong, except the Warriors made a play to erase the errors instantly. 😂

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Van leet been holding. On one play in the first half. I saw him literally grab Curry’s wrist from he getting away. They didn’t call it but called him running thru the screen. 

I really thought KL was going to steal that pass to Livingston at the end. Terrible pass by Curry but Livingston saved him. 

[Warhead36]

If Durant comes back the series is over. If not, and if Thompson actually is hurt(hammies don't just heal overnight), this series is still very much up for grabs.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Maybe even greater than Jordan with regards to offensive impact?

 

Jordan wouldn't get checked by 6 foot mediocrities like VanVleet.

 

Curry is the best shooter in league history, and he's a great player in the context of that team.  But LeBron, Durant, Harden, and Giannis are all more dominant offensive players than him.  He helps space the floor and he's a great teammate and a winner.  But there've been a lot of times where he's been stopped by a physical guard picking him up at 30 feet when he's got the ball, and an aggressive switch when he's off of it.  He's the best ever from behind the 3 pt line and he's pretty good from inside ten feet.  But he doesn't have a mid range game and he isn't a work horse table setter or iso scorer.  He needs all of those good shooters, passers, and screeners around him to play at a transcendent level.  Durant, Giannis, Harden, and LeBron could win a scoring title with any collection of scrubs surrounding them.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Giannis? Hell No. Harden, no. LeBron sure. KD nope. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

55 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Jordan wouldn't get checked by 6 foot mediocrities like VanVleet

Jordan didn’t have to deal with a zone. 

 

55 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Curry is the best shooter in league history, and he's a great player in the context of that team.  But LeBron, Durant, Harden, and Giannis are all more dominant offensive players than him.  He helps space the floor and he's a great teammate and a winner.  But there've been a lot of times where he's been stopped by a physical guard picking him up at 30 feet when he's got the ball, and an aggressive switch when he's off of it.  He's the best ever from behind the 3 pt line and he's pretty good from inside ten feet.  But he doesn't have a mid range game and he isn't a work horse table setter or iso scorer.  He needs all of those good shooters, passers, and screeners around him to play at a transcendent level.  Durant, Giannis, Harden, and LeBron could win a scoring title with any collection of scrubs surrounding them.

 

So much wrong to unpack. 

 

Curry has a midrange game and we saw it during the Mark Jackson era. Why take a two when you can take a three? Harden is doing the same thing.

 

We just saw Giannis struggle against this same defense last round, so stop that.

 

And the 2015 finals the Warriors told LeBron to do whatever he wanted and LeBron put up all time numbers but was ridiculously inefficient. Last night the Raptors were so terrified of Curry that they doubled him on and off the ball and ran a box and one in an nba finals game because they were terrified of him.

 

And that’s my point with impact. None of the guys you mentioned scared defenses off the ball like Curry does. That’s what makes him greater.

Edited June 3, 2019 by BenningRoadSkin

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

 

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Curry is the reason KD can play 1 on 1 the entire game. Curry absolutely has a mid range. 

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Curry is shooting 50% from mid range this playoffs

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Dr. Do Itch Big

[Mr. Sinister]

Yeah, Curry and Klay can definitely thrive from mid range. Curry can finish at the rim too.

[Destino]

When you have the best shooter in the history of basketball on the floor, running laps because he apparently has the cardio of a champion boxer, you can't force an isolation scorer into bad shots all series long.  It's simply not possible.  Doing so would allow the greatest shooter ever to shoot open shots all night.  When you don't have Steph Curry on the floor you have teams like KD's thunder or Harden's Rockets.  Those guys are harder to stop individually, but the style of basketball they end up playing is easier for teams to defend.  

 

The best teams move the ball well and move well without the ball.  They make it impossible to just double one guy and sabotage the entire offense.  Not just through scheme but through the right mix of talent.  Lebron paired extremely well with Kyrie and Love.  Even better with Wade and Bosh.  He knows the sorts of complimentary pieces his style needed to succeed, and he never turned into the guy that ran 10 isolation plays for himself in the final 5 minutes.  Or the guy that just stands still when he doesn't have the ball.  (Like Harden and Westbrook). 

 

I really hope that KD and Kyrie go to the Knick next season so they can serve as a lesson in what I'm saying.  They will easily make the playoffs.  They will coast through the first, maybe second round, but they'll inevitably come up short.  They'll bury themselves under an impressive pile of bricks while their team mates stand idle on spots, knowing they'll never touch the ball. 

 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Curry is shooting 50% from mid range this playoffs 

How do they define midrange?  Inside ten feet, he's pretty good because his floater game is good.  But his volume in mid range is miniscule.  KD's mid range game is huge, and extremely efficient, by contrast.  That's why he is a much more dominant and consistent offensive player.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Yeah, Curry and Klay can definitely thrive from mid range. Curry can finish at the rim too. 

 

Klay has a solid mid range game, and he goes to it fairly often.  He can post up and shoot over smaller defenders and he has a one and two dribble pull up game that is fluid and efficient.  But I'm not arguing that he's a dominant offensive player, because I don't really think he is.  Curry almost never shoots from mid range.  Curry is a pretty good finisher around the basket, but he's not an elite one and he's certainly not in Giannis's, LeBron's, Durant's, or Harden's world as a finisher at that range.  Nor can he get to the rim like they can.  His drives come in transition/early offense and as a straight line attack off the catch against an out of position defense.  He can't get all of the way to the basket from the perimeter running point.  That's why he needs to be playing in the context of a movement-focused offense with good passers/facilitators to put up volume with efficiency.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Jordan didn’t have to deal with a zone.  

 

 

So much wrong to unpack. 

 

Curry has a midrange game and we saw it during the Mark Jackson era. Why take a two when you can take a three? Harden is doing the same thing.

 

We just saw Giannis struggle against this same defense last round, so stop that.

  

And the 2015 finals the Warriors told LeBron to do whatever he wanted and LeBron put up all time numbers but was ridiculously inefficient. Last night the Raptors were so terrified of Curry that they doubled him on and off the ball and ran a box and one in an nba finals game because they were terrified of him.

  

And that’s my point with impact. None of the guys you mentioned scared defenses off the ball like Curry does. That’s what makes him greater. 



 

You don't need a zone to stop Curry.  And VanVleet would have been able to handcheck Jordan and play him way tougher, and Jordan absolutely wouldn't have been outmuscled by him.

 

Dominant scorers need a mid range game because playoff defenses play you physical out to the three point line and stay in position to contest looks around the basket.  Harden doesn't have a mid range game either, and it's why their efficiency plummets from the regular season to the playoffs.

 

2015 was LeBron playing one on five because of injuries to his team.  When he's got a real team around him, he's one of the most impactful and efficient postseason players in NBA history.  He led the league in postseason VORP a ridiculous 10 times in his career, including for 8 straight seasons at one point.  He's been a much more impactful postseason player than Curry.

 

You're overrating the value of gravity to oversell Curry's impact.  Yes, a great shooter like him has strong gravity, and it helps create room for drivers and low post scorers.  But that doesn't necessarily translate to unstoppable offense.  If you play him physical in the half court, then you can stop him.  And that's what Toronto has been able to do with VanVleet.  And you can achieve that without compromising your defense.

 

What does directly translate to unstoppable offense is not being able to single guard Durant with any defender in the league.  Not being able to stop Giannis or LeBron from getting all of the way to the rim.  Not being able to keep Harden off the free throw line.  And with their gravity they pull secondary defenders off shooters and they find those guys, and thus directly create more points scored than Curry does.  To your final point, Curry with the ball in his hands doesn't scare defenses like those guys do, and that's what makes them greater.

2 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Curry is the reason KD can play 1 on 1 the entire game. Curry absolutely has a mid range.  

 

KD was roasting half court defenses long before he came to Golden State.  He can score on any defense no matter who is around him.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Destino said:

  Those guys are harder to stop individually, but the style of basketball they end up playing is easier for teams to defend.   

 

I'm not sure I agree with that.  Strength in numbers is harder to defend than defending just one player.  But that's not just down Steph Curry.  Curry plays on one of the greatest teams ever assembled.  It's been a long time since we've seen him play on scrubby teams in the postseason like we've seen with LeBron and Harden and Durant, more recently.  And we've seen Durant show up on this Golden State team and take over their offense in the postseason and put up some All Timer performances.

 

Put Curry on a weak team and they would struggle to score more than LeBron's, Durant's, or Giannis's would.  Probably more than Harden's too.  When I can put a 6' bench guard on Curry and take away his efficiency and force the offense into the hands of guys 2-6, then that's easier to defend than what can be done about those other guys.  The good thing for Curry is that his 2-6 guys are great players.  Nobody else in the NBA has that.  Or anything even close to that.

 

I do give Curry credit for playing without ego and embracing the strength in numbers philosophy and leaving space for his great teammates to thrive.  Some guys aren't great team players like him.  He's a winner.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

How do they define midrange?  Inside ten feet, he's pretty good because his floater game is good.  But his volume in mid range is miniscule.  KD's mid range game is huge, and extremely efficient, by contrast.  That's why he is a much more dominant and consistent offensive player.

They have it as zones, inside the restricted zone, paint (not including restricted zone), mid range, 3pt range

 

Curry percentage 58.3%, 48.4%, 50%. Not going to put 3pt cause we all know he is the best shooter. # of attempts is 60, 31, and 52. KD is a better 1 on 1 score, but in 5 on 5 Curry's gravity is a greater force than KD's offensive impact. Did you forget how insane Currys unanimous MVP season was? That season was ridiculous. KD hasn't come close to that. KD lost to Curry that year in 7. 

All the stats show the Warriors are much better with Curry and no KD compared to KD and no Curry. 

[Renegade7]

8 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Maybe even greater than Jordan with regards to offensive impact?

 

 

This conversation makes me uncomfortable.  Would you rather have Curry on the floor for offense then Jordan? That take is still emitting thermal radiation.

[Destino]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'm not sure I agree with that.  Strength in numbers is harder to defend than defending just one player.  But that's not just down Steph Curry.  Curry plays on one of the greatest teams ever assembled.  It's been a long time since we've seen him play on scrubby teams in the postseason like we've seen with LeBron and Harden and Durant, more recently.  And we've seen Durant show up on this Golden State team and take over their offense in the postseason and put up some All Timer performances.

 

Put Curry on a weak team and they would struggle to score more than LeBron's, Durant's, or Giannis's would.  Probably more than Harden's too.  When I can put a 6' bench guard on Curry and take away his efficiency and force the offense into the hands of guys 2-6, then that's easier to defend than what can be done about those other guys.  The good thing for Curry is that his 2-6 guys are great players.  Nobody else in the NBA has that.  Or anything even close to that.

 

I do give Curry credit for playing without ego and embracing the strength in numbers philosophy and leaving space for his great teammates to thrive.  Some guys aren't great team players like him.  He's a winner.

When was Durant on a scrub team?  OKC was loaded with talent.  

 

Lebron won his titles on damn good, hand picked, teams.  We saw him on a scrub team this season, how did that work out for him?  

 

Giannis is not on a scrub team either.  He’s just not on a championship team, which is why he’s at home while the Raptors are in the finals. 

 

Theres no getting around that you need the talent to win in the post season, but I don’t think the warriors needed Durant to win another title.  He didn’t take a mediocre team and make them great.  He just added more to an already great team.  

 

People act like the warriors losing in the finals proved they weren’t legit... but Lebron lost to a mediocre (compared to other champs) Mavs team.  He got absolutely taken apart by a very old Spurs team too.  

 

Warriors lost in a story book ending for the Cavs,  it happened, so what?  Cavs would have gotten smoked in a rematch.  Just like Lebron lost the rubber match against San Antonio after beating them in miracle fashion.  But the warriors signed KD and in doing so buried their own superstar in doubt forever.  Signing KD was the worst thing to ever happen to Curry’s legacy.

[Mr. Sinister]

Its way too late to try and read thru all this ****

[TradeTheBeal!]

Kobe had a nice midrange.

[Bozo the kKklown]

9 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This conversation makes me uncomfortable.  Would you rather have Curry on the floor for offense then Jordan? That take is still emitting thermal radiation.

 

Jordan is a better individual talent. One vs One he is the best player ever.

 

But Curry’s affect on a defense is greater because he impacts the entire defense. Again, was Jordan ever trapped 40 feet from the basket? Curry has Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson on the court and defenses are focused on him first. Teams don’t want Curry to beat them. And on top of that, Curry is better off the ball than jordan.

 

11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You don't need a zone to stop Curry.  And VanVleet would have been able to handcheck Jordan and play him way tougher, and Jordan absolutely wouldn't have been outmuscled by him.

 

You need 2-3 players to grab and hold Curry and pay attention to him. That’s what happens.

 

Jordan never had to face the defenses current nba players face with the zone and guys at the basket. The handcheck stuff is weak “I watched the nba in the 90s” stuff despite every perimeter player in who played before and after the hand check preferring to play in a pre-zone nba.

 

11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Harden doesn't have a mid range game either,

I really should stop going forward with this because this is a completely wrong statement. Before D’Antoni, Harden operates a lot in the mid range and was one of the best shooter from there. You can check the numbers. Just a straight nonsense point lol.

 

11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

2015 was LeBron playing one on five because of injuries to his team. 

You reading my post? That was my point. The Warriors weren’t scared of LeBron shooting a lot and let him do whatever. The Warriors on Sunday had no other scoring threat — although Kerr should have had Boogie in the post more —and the Raptors decided to trap Curry and get the ball out of his hands. A box and one. That’s how scared the Raptors were if Curry. They didn’t want him taking the shots to close the game. 

 

Shoot, Popovich’s strategy against LeBron in those finals was to let LeBron shoot. Imagine someone telling Curry that? Lol

 

11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

You're overrating the value of gravity to oversell Curry's impact.  Yes, a great shooter like him has strong gravity, and it helps create room for drivers and low post scorers.

First, no. There are no other shooters like him, so kill that. And also no, his gravity doesn’t impact the Warriors because they aren’t a post-heavy team (are you even watching the games?).

 

The attention teams give Curry let’s the best individual offensive player in the game — Durant — the luxury to do his thing with no doubles. That’s why you shouldn’t underrate the gravity. 

[Hersh]

Curry’s effect on defenses is not more impactful than Jordan. It’s no knock on Curry it’s just a different game today with the excessive three point shooting. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

27 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Curry’s effect on defenses is not more impactful than Jordan. It’s no knock on Curry it’s just a different game today with the excessive three point shooting. 

Based on? You don’t make a statement like this without proving it.

 

Curry leads one of the greatest offenses of all time and has for five years. The offense was arguably better before Durant and they just had the two shooters. The offense has been elite without Durant.

 

Was Jordan forcing teams to give him attention off the ball? We see that all the time with Curry.