Dr. Do Itch Big Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Widest lanes of lebrons career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebron-is-still-getting-better/ LeBron Is Still Getting Better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, PeterMP said: I'm certainly not sure they'd be worse. (We went through this already looking at things like catch and shoot stats and the like and am not doing it again.) Yeah, and somehow I made you think about citing stats without looking at context when I brought up that Lebron's catch and shoot numbers were better than Curry's. Lebron handles the ball 7.2 minutes per game. No one on Golden State handles more than 5.4 minutes per game. (that's Steph) Can Lebron play in an offense when he isnt dominating the ball, and passes to move the defense? Edited January 9, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Would the Warriors be better with Lebron? That's not really a good standard cause what the Warriors have around Durant. There are a few stars that would make the Warriors just as good as they are now cause any team can only be so good. Lebron, Anthony Davis, a health Leonard, Giannis. 7 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Can Lebron play in an offense when he isnt dominating the ball, and passes to move the defense? A superstar player being a better fit in a specific system doesn't make him better than another superstar player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hersh said: That's not really a good standard cause what the Warriors have around Durant. There are a few stars that would make the Warriors just as good as they are now cause any team can only be so good. Lebron, Anthony Davis, a health Leonard, Giannis. A superstar player being a better fit in a specific system doesn't make him better than another superstar player. Oh i see. I asked the question because someone said the Cavs would not be as good with Durant being in Cleveland, but now we fall back and waffle once the question is flipped. (for the record, Durant with IT and Durant just playing off the ball would give the Cavs a better shooter and a better defender. So yes, I think the Cavs would be better) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, BenningRoadSkin said: Oh i see. I asked the question because someone said the Cavs would not be as good with Durant being in Cleveland, but now we fall back and waffle once the question is flipped. (for the record, Durant with IT and Durant just playing off the ball would give the Cavs a better shooter and a better defender. So yes, I think the Cavs would be better) I know I watched LeBron beat the Warriors 2 seasons ago when Durant failed. I know I watched LeBron get to the finals year after year and win himself some titles. LeBron is the best player in the league and the Warriors would be better with him instead of Durant. Durant in place of LeBron on the Cavs and the Cavs don’t make the finals cause Durant isn’t made to be the lead dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Predicto said: True. There are a lot of genuinely stupid front office people in the NBA. Ernie Grunfeld might be one of them. Yea. Thats a pretty big might.... Edited January 9, 2018 by CRobi21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 52 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: I say dude is 33 years old and can't defend like he used too. Would the Warriors be better with Lebron? Perhaps not, because Durant is a perfect fit for the Warriors. On the other hand, I think the Cavs are better with Lebron than they would be with Durant. And I think adding Lebron to almost every team in the NBA (certainly every team in the East) instantly gives that team a good shot to get to the finals. I don't think you can say that about Durant. Lebron is having the best season of his career. He's a cyborg and he's still the best player in the Association. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Yeah, and somehow I made you think about citing stats without looking at context when I brought up that Lebron's catch and shoot numbers were better than Curry's. Lebron handles the ball 7.2 minutes per game. No one on Golden State handles more than 5.4 minutes per game. (that's Steph) Can Lebron play in an offense when he isnt dominating the ball, and passes to move the defense? This is an extreme year in terms the responsibility he's had on offense and he's always played a ton of minutes/game. He was at 6.4 just last year. He plays more per a game than anybody on the GSW. Obviously if he played less, he'd have the ball less. They only have stats for that going back to 2013-2014 and so he was at 5.5 minutes his last year in Miami n (and Wade only played 54 games that year) when he was still averaging more minutes/game than anybody on the GSW team too. Considering how much he's played historically, I'm not sure there is anything out of line with how much he's held the ball historically. (Who has issues with looking at numbers in context? My point before, which is the reason I don't want to get bogged down in it because you don't seem to understand making basic points, is that Lebron is certainly a good enough catch and shoot shooter that there would be very little negative affect of taking those shots from Durant and giving them to Lebron. It isn't like Lebron is a bad catch and shoot player. In fact, he's very good. (as indicated by the numbers).) Lebron can certainly pass. Edited January 9, 2018 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 No contact in the 80s? I don’t know what you guys were watching, but players were hammered anytime they came down the lane and it got worse in the 90s. Brawl ball in the 90s created a lot of rule changes. I remember a lot of fights in the 80s for hard fouls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Hersh said: That's not really a good standard cause what the Warriors have around Durant. There are a few stars that would make the Warriors just as good as they are now cause any team can only be so good. Lebron, Anthony Davis, a health Leonard, Giannis. Nah. The reason Durant is so good for the Warriors is because he is so deadly from outside. Everything about the Warriors offensive dominance begins with them being able to score efficiently from anywhere on the court at any time. Leonard is the only one of those 4 that would be just as good for the Warriors as Durant because he is the only one that is superior from distance. Although Lebron sometimes gets hot from deep, his real unstoppable skill is power drives for a dunk or a kick out to shooters if the double comes. That's not Warriors basketball. 5 minutes ago, pjfootballer said: No contact in the 80s? I don’t know what you guys were watching, but players were hammered anytime they came down the lane and it got worse in the 90s. Brawl ball in the 90s created a lot of rule changes. I remember a lot of fights in the 80s for hard fouls. The 90s was much more physical than the early and mid 80s. Those 80s Celtics and Lakers teams were running and passing and scoring easily. It wasn't until the Bad Boy Pistons at the end of the decade that everything got mucked up and slowed down. Edited January 9, 2018 by Predicto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Predicto said: Nah. The reason Durant is so good for the Warriors is because he is so deadly from outside. Everything about the Warriors offensive dominance begins with them being able to score efficiently from anywhere on the court at any time. Leonard is the only one of those 4 that would be just as good for the Warriors as Durant. Their efficiency would not go down adding any of those players. They would simply have a slightly different style. Not to say Durant isn't a brilliant fit for the Warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, pjfootballer said: No contact in the 80s? I don’t know what you guys were watching, but players were hammered anytime they came down the lane and it got worse in the 90s. Brawl ball in the 90s created a lot of rule changes. I remember a lot of fights in the 80s for hard fouls. I believe I specifically stated the early 80s. People fought and there is the famous McHale clothes line (and I'm pretty sure he didn't get ejected for that, which is why such plays happen), but there are plenty of old videos of games back YouTube. Play-in and play-out, there was less contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Hersh said: Their efficiency would not go down adding any of those players. They would simply have a slightly different style. Not to say Durant isn't a brilliant fit for the Warriors. The Warriors offensive style is based on constantly running around screens to get open first, which determines where the passes will go. Everyone is constantly moving, and the pass can come at any time. Klay and Steph run almost three miles per game weaving all over the place. Lebron's (or Giannis's) way is the opposite, and requires shooters to stand around in preset places. They have to be there and not move so then when Lebron drives, the defender has to make a decision and Lebron knows exactly where to throw the kick out. If the shooters are endlessly moving around like the Warriors do, there will be no way to make the correct pass in the split second that Lebron has to make that decision. You would have to rework the Warrior's offense entirely to take full advantage of Lebron or Giannis's offensive skills. 10 minutes ago, PeterMP said: I believe I specifically stated the early 80s. People fought and there is the famous McHale clothes line (and I'm pretty sure he didn't get ejected for that, which is why such plays happen), but there are plenty of old videos of games back YouTube. Play-in and play-out, there was less contact. You are correct, sir. There were more fights (because the penalties for fighting were less) but overall there was less contact (and less defense in general). Edited January 9, 2018 by Predicto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Predicto said: The Warriors offensive style is based on constantly running around screens to get open first, which determines where the passes will go. Everyone is constantly moving, and the pass can come at any time. Klay and Steph run almost three miles per game weaving all over the place. Lebron's (or Giannis's) way is the opposite, and requires shooters to stand around in preset places. They have to be there and not move so then when Lebron drives, the defender has to make a decision and Lebron knows exactly where to throw the kick out. If the shooters are endlessly moving around like the Warriors do, there will be no way to make the correct pass in the split second that Lebron has to make that decision. You would have to rework the Warrior's offense entirely to take full advantage of Lebron or Giannis's offensive skills. As I have less knowledge of their system, how does Green get his with in the Warriors offense? I feel like LeBron’s passing ability, ability to drive and finish or kick and if he’s willing to set those screens that he could average a triple double for the Warriors while scoring less. But I’ll defer to the Warriors fan here. Oh, part of my thinking is that I view GS as such a high basketball IQ team that they would easily figure it out with a superstar. Edited January 9, 2018 by Hersh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Predicto said: The Warriors offensive style is based on constantly running around screens to get open first, which determines where the passes will go. Everyone is constantly moving, and the pass can come at any time. Klay and Steph run almost three miles per game weaving all over the place. Lebron's (or Giannis's) way is the opposite, and requires shooters to stand around in preset places. They have to be there and not move so then when Lebron drives, the defender has to make a decision and Lebron knows exactly where to throw the kick out. If the shooters are endlessly moving around like the Warriors do, there will be no way to make the correct pass in the split second that Lebron has to make that decision. You would have to rework the Warrior's offense entirely to take full advantage of Lebron or Giannis's offensive skills. I don't watch GS much, but they seem to play plenty of drive and kick (and the stats seem to back that up(Durant and Curry drive less than Lebron, but are more likely to pass when they do)). I think their offense has changed with Durant and the loss of the Bogut. Curry drove (very) slightly less before Durant and was less likely to pass. Durant drives more than the 2nd person before he was there (Klay) and Klay is less likely to drive too (like Curry), but again when he does he is more likely to pass. I'll also point out there is no reason why you can't couple a drive with an off ball pick. The only key is that you know where people are going to end up, but it isn't like GS doesn't have set plays off the pick anyway (or they couldn't make the quick passes off the picks to make their offense works anyway). Even without the pick, you really want the shooter to drift some so that it is harder for the defender to re-make contact with the shooter. Edited January 9, 2018 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Hersh said: As I have less knowledge of their system, how does Green get his with in the Warriors offense? I feel like LeBron’s passing ability, ability to drive and finish or kick and if he’s willing to set those screens that he could average a triple double for the Warriors while scoring less. But I’ll defer to the Warriors fan here. The difference is who is moving and who is still. Green typically gets the ball at or above the top of the key, stands still for a moment and surveys all the moving shooters, and throws to the spot where one is just coming free for an open shot (or a backdoor cut). All the shooters are constantly moving - the passer is not. That is why the pass can come at any time. And if people leave Green open to double Steph, Green takes a jumper to keep them honest. Green typically scores only about ten points a game, but he leads the team in assists. Lebron, in contrast, sets himself up as the scoring thread. He is the one moving - he drives down the lane and forces the defense to make a decision because he rarely gets stopped one on one when he has a head of steam up. The shooters leak to the corners and stay there. If someone doubles Lebron's drive, he kicks to whichever of the shooters has been left open. That pass is always made at the same time - at the end of the drive. Both systems work, but they are very different. I'm not saying that Lebron could not be highly successful in the Warriors' system - he can pretty much do anything on a basketball court. But having Durant's outside shot is even more valuable, because it creates so much more space for everyone. Who do you stick with when Steph sets a screen for Durant? Now imagine if Lebron sets a screen for Steph. You know what to do. You stay outside with Steph and the other defender drops back into the lane to take away the drive from Lebron. Lebron can take the outside shot, you can live with that. Make sense? Edited January 9, 2018 by Predicto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, Predicto said: Now imagine if Lebron sets a screen for Steph. You know what to do. You stay outside with Steph and the other defender drops back into the lane to take away the drive from Lebron. Lebron can take the outside shot, you can live with that. Are you talking pick n roll? One thought I had was actually Steph or Klay setting the screen for Lebron. If Lebron sets a screen, he call roll to the basket, get a pass to either finish at the rim or pass to a wide open three attempt when the D rotates. If someone smaller sags into the lane against Lebron, he will destroy them. Semi literally. Anyway, nice break from Trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Predicto said: Now imagine if Lebron sets a screen for Steph. You know what to do. You stay outside with Steph and the other defender drops back into the lane to take away the drive from Lebron. Lebron can take the outside shot, you can live with that. Make sense? First, Lebron isn't a bad catch and shoot player. This came up before. Lebron shoots like 40% on catch and shot 3s. No defense is just going to say they can live giving up 40% 3 point shots. But yes in general having Lebron stay on the 3 point line is a waste of is talents. You'd have Lebron cut off the screen. Him on a cut to the basket with a sagging one-on-one player is a win for the offense. He has the size and body control to simultaneously shield the defender from the pass, make the catch, and finish at the rim, especially with a quality passer like Green. Edited January 9, 2018 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Getting away from this conversation, what do people think about the Cavs trading the Nets pick for something that helps them this year? Deandre Jordan for the Nets pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Getting away from this conversation, what do people think about the Cavs trading the Nets pick for something that helps them this year? Deandre Jordan for the Nets pick? I don’t think they can trade it unless they know Bron is there long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: I don’t think they can trade it unless they know Bron is there long term. Yea they can. Your don't make plays for if LeBron leaves. You play for championships while you know you got him. At least that's what I would do. Win now. Right now lll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Wrong thread. Edited January 9, 2018 by abdcskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Curry with 32 points and 5 3’s today. He is in unanimous mvp mode right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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