Bozo the kKklown Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 16 hours ago, PeterMP said: The Magic/Thomas relationship fell apart after Magic got HIV. The rumor started that Magic got it from homosexual activity, and he believed that Thomas started it. And he did not like the rumor at all. At the time of the Olympics, Magic was as anti-Thomas as Jordan. I don't think they've reconciled after all of these years. (There's also a component of Magic becoming friends with Bird (partially because Bird was supportive when Magic announced he had HIV) and Bird not liking Thomas either (the if he was black, he'd just be another player comment). Bird was done as a player by '92, but he was on the team because Magic talked him into it and supported him.) Nobody wanted Thomas on that team. The team was also chosen directly after the leave the court early season against the Bulls. The NBA wasn't looking for a poor sportsmanship showing in the Olympics. They reconciled. IMO, mainstream media never forgave Isiah for cosigning Rodman's comments about Bird. He supported his dumbass teammate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Isiah Thomas was also totally washed up by 1992. More so than Bird was and Bird could barely run. He didn't deserve to be on the team based on his ability level at the time alone. Him making Team USA would have been like if Jeff Teague had made Team USA now. He was basically Jeff Teague during those championship runs. Actually Jeff Teague was way better last year than Isiah was after the age of 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Isiah Thomas was not washed up in 1992. He had a better season than in 1990-91 where he was injured, and it was comparable to his 1989-90 season. He deserved to be on that Dream Team as did Dominique Wilkins. edit: lol at the nonsense Jeff Teague line. Stop it Edited June 30, 2017 by BenningRoadSkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Isiah Thomas was also totally washed up by 1992. More so than Bird was and Bird could barely run. He didn't deserve to be on the team based on his ability level at the time alone. Him making Team USA would have been like if Jeff Teague had made Team USA now. He was basically Jeff Teague during those championship runs. Actually Jeff Teague was way better last year than Isiah was after the age of 26. Damn that's salty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 You know what? Every time we have the "most overrated players in NBA history" debate, Isiah's name never comes up. Why is that? I've been guilty of this in the past--he's always put high on the list of top five PGs in NBA history despite the fact peak Isiah Thomas wouldn't even be a top five PG in the NBA today. He had like two really good seasons putting up numbers on two middling Pistons teams. By the time his team was great, he was a JAG. Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, and Russell Westbrook absolutely destroy prime Isiah. John Wall is better than peak Isiah Thomas in every way. Current Isaiah Thomas is better. Most overrated All Time Great in league history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Most overrated All Time Great in league history. Iverson. Still love him tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Isiah Thomas was not washed up in 1992. He had a better season than in 1990-91 where he was injured, and it was comparable to his 1989-90 season. He deserved to be on that Dream Team as did Dominique Wilkins. edit: lol at the nonsense Jeff Teague line. Stop it He wasn't good either of those seasons. Those seasons are mediocre starter material by the standards of the modern PG. Dennis Schroder can give you what Isiah could at that point. He in no way shape or form deserved to be on that team. Stockton and Price and Hardaway were way better than him at the time. Just now, TryTheBeal! said: Iverson. Still love him tho. Fair enough. Although I feel like a lot of people already acknowledge that he was overrated during his career. For some reason Isiah has gotten a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Kevin Johnson was way better than Isiah in 1992 also. As was Magic Johnson. ****, even Michael Adams and Terry Porter were better than him at that point. Isiah making Team USA in 1992 would have been as silly and undeserving as if Derrick Rose had made Team USA in 2014. Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Yeah, okay. I know you read the Kevin Pelton article and it changed your mind. Isiah doesn't get advanced analytics love but people who watched know he was special. His scoring numbers declined as the Pistons became a great team and dropped his shot totals. He was an inefficient scorer in an era where players his height couldn't get to the basket as much. He also didn't bother with 3 point shooting which hurt him. Isiah was an all time great. If you argue a guy like Curry is better than him, I'd agree. But comparing him to Jeff Teague and Dennis Schroeder is showing you only look at numbers and not the actual game. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: He also didn't bother with 3 point shooting which hurt him. Isiah was an all time great. If you argue a guy like Curry is better than him, I'd agree. But comparing him to Jeff Teague and Dennis Schroeder is showing you only look at numbers and not the actual game. I'm saying that, by 1992, that's who Isiah was. He was coasting on his reputation by then. He wasn't even a great player on those championship teams. His best seasons were in his early 20s and then he started declining fast. He only had a window of like three seasons which could get him on an All NBA team today. Isiah's legacy massively benefits from the fact that almost all of the other PGs in the 80's sucked and his team was the only really good one after much greater Lakers and Celtics dynasties fell apart and a much greater Chicago dynasty hadn't gotten off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 You said after he turned 26, he was Jeff Teague. jeff Teague is barely leading teams to the playoffs, let alone NBA titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Just now, BenningRoadSkin said: You said after he turned 26, he was Jeff Teague. jeff Teague is barely leading teams to the playoffs, let alone NBA titles. Yeah but Jeff Teague isn't playing on a really good team in an era that was between great teams. And Jeff Teague is playing in an era where he's like maybe the 14th best PG in the game. At most. He'd be like the third best PG of the early 1980's. That's one of my points--Isiah looked good playing against a watered down position and he'd get exposed if he played today. I just don't get why his legacy has never really been questioned before. Everyone hated those Bad Boys teams. His career wasn't overly impressive. And he's a turd on a personal level too. Every other All Timer gets their legacy relentlessly picked apart except him. Even Russell and Jordan. It's time for a revision on Zeke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Fam You are basing it on stats and a Kevin Pelton article. And even Pelton didn't go that far, since he claimed he was still top 5 all time. You also compared Isiah Thomas to current point guards who play in an era that favors them, which wasn't true back then. Just stop it. Edited June 30, 2017 by BenningRoadSkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Isiah Thomas was not washed up in 1992. He had a better season than in 1990-91 where he was injured, and it was comparable to his 1989-90 season. He deserved to be on that Dream Team as did Dominique Wilkins. edit: lol at the nonsense Jeff Teague line. Stop it No he didn't. They were fielding a "Dream Team", but they still filled out the roster with only 12 players and went with 2 point guards in Stockton and Magic. Stockton was better that year than Isiah was, in every category almost, except for ppg and the margin was only +3 for Isiah. And Magic stats from 90-91 were better than Isiah's. Dude was only averaging single digit assists at 7.2 per game with Stockton almost doubling that with 13.7 pg and Magic's last season played before that with 12.8 pg. I'm not going to argue if Isiah is an all-time great or not, I think he is. But he didn't deserve to be on that dream team. Like I said, they went with 12 players and only 2 point guards. Both selected were more deserving that he was. The only argument that I could see being made would be to not have gone with one college player (Laettner) and let a NBA player fill that spot. But he made it as a PF, not a PG, so we now are talking about messing around with roster spots just to add him, which is silly, imo. Edit: And Wilkins, he got injured that year and missed the second half of the season, hardly a snub, cause he was rehabbing. The biggest snub imo, Shaq. He should have made it over Laettner with no questions asked. Edited June 30, 2017 by Dont Taze Me Bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Fair enough. Although I feel like a lot of people already acknowledge that he was overrated during his career. For some reason Isiah has gotten a pass. Who says AI's overrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: No he didn't. They were fielding a "Dream Team", but they still filled out the roster with only 12 players and went with 2 point guards in Stockton and Magic. Stockton was better that year than Isiah was, in every category almost, except for ppg and the margin was only +3 for Isiah. And Magic stats from 90-91 were better than Isiah's. Dude was only averaging single digit assists at 7.2 per game with Stockton almost doubling that with 13.7 pg and Magic's last season played before that with 12.8 pg. I'm not going to argue if Isiah is an all-time great or not, I think he is. But he didn't deserve to be on that dream team. Like I said, they went with 12 players and only 2 point guards. Both selected were more deserving that he was. The only argument that I could see being made would be to not have gone with one college player (Laettner) and let a NBA player fill that spot. But he made it as a PF, not a PG, so we now are talking about messing around with roster spots just to add him, which is silly, imo. If Larry Bird was on that team, then Zeke deserved it. Also, the team was named in the offseason before the 91-92 season. Off topic but still on, Clyde Drexler is a guy who you could question his All Time great status. A lot of old time players have no respect for his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Isaiah is an odd situation where people seem to have tried to up his reputation as he aged in my opinion. Even at the time without advance metrics people thought there were better players out there. Stockton made all NBA 1st team 8 times and 2nd 9 times. Thomas first team 4 times and 2nd team 5 times. The league wasn't that different over their careers. If I was ranking point guards of all time, why wouldn't I put Stockton in front of Thomas. Chris Mullin (probably the worse NBA player on the Dream Team team) made all NBA first team 4 times and 2nd team 3 times and was clearly more in the prime of his career than Thomas, including a first team selection in 1991-92. Curry is a two time MVP. Thomas never finished higher than 5th (Mullin finished 6th one year) and Stockton finished as high as 7th one year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: If Larry Bird was on that team, then Zeke deserved it. Also, the team was named in the offseason before the 91-92 season. Off topic but still on, Clyde Drexler is a guy who you could question his All Time great status. A lot of old time players have no respect for his game. Again, different positions and limited roster spots for said positions. Bird was not a point guard, Isiah was and the two spots went to better players. Even better, look at their 90-91 stats, Stockton had better year then too, so did Magic. They were still fielding a team, to win and went with 2 PGs, 2 SGs, 3 SF, 3 PF and 2 C. And there was nothing wrong with the allocated spots at each position. Are you just hating on Bird making the team? Edited June 30, 2017 by Dont Taze Me Bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said: Are you just hating on Bird making the team? huh? Bird could barely move in 1992. Thats not hate, that is fact. He barely played at the Olympics too. Thats why I said Dominique deserved to be on that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: huh? Bird could barely move in 1992. Thats not hate, that is fact. He barely played at the Olympics too. Thats why I said Dominique deserved to be on that team. They announced the first 10 players in Sept. 1991, but didn't announce the final two spots until May 1992. Wilkin's ruptured his achille's at the end of January 1992. There was no way to know if he could play or when he would be fully rehabbed to play again. Bird was hobbling by that time, no doubt, but it was more of a nod at a historic career. A hobbled Bird was still averaging 20 ppg in 90-91/91-92. I'm pretty sure that if Wilkin's didn't get injured, he's on the team in place of Drexler. He was having a career year before he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: If Larry Bird was on that team, then Zeke deserved it. Also, the team was named in the offseason before the 91-92 season. Off topic but still on, Clyde Drexler is a guy who you could question his All Time great status. A lot of old time players have no respect for his game. 1. Bird was considered a true all time great. He had won multiple MVPs and at the time was considered probably the best SF ever. He was more deserving of a career award than Zeke. 2. There was a real concern about that team having enough perimeter shooting to break international zones and though Bird was hobbled he was still one of the best shooters in the NBA and certainly better than Thomas. 3. Magic wanted Bird on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Rubio to Utah for a 2018 OKC pick. Minny has cap space now. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Destino said: Rubio to Utah for a 2018 OKC pick. Minny has cap space now. Interesting. Targeting Jeff Teague...which should thrill @stevemcqueen1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I'll take Teague over that disappearing act named Kyle Lowry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said: I'll take Teague over that disappearing act named Kyle Lowry. Kyle Lowry and the Raptors would have easily won the east if the ref's hadn't supported the NBA agenda. He is a top 3 guard currently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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