***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[daveakl]

Durant limping

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Man... you aint kidding. Im halfway expecting to wake up one day like Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind, and realize that he was all my starved, desperate imagination. And I've been waiting for Rio to go away anx stop tormenting me for like 5 years.

For the longest time it was like God decided that we shall have no bigs or pg's, and boom... we're set at both positions (especially if McBob comes back healthy).

I dont know how to take this.

What if Lebron decides to come back to Miami next year?

[PeterMP]

You can't rebuild forever with young players and you can't possibly know that none of these guys will develop after one year surrounded by garbage. Look what it took for the Wizards young guys to start to learn to win: A few years experience and some solid veterans.

 

Honestly, if I were the Wizards I would have kept rebuilding because I don't think they are going to win an NBA title with the group they have unless they get really really lucky.

 

And I'd be looking to be "rebuilding" even now.

 

I think you look at a guy like Wiggins and what he's doing already in the NBA, and if he stays healthy I think it is pretty clear he's going to be a really good player.

 

Was there any real doubt after year 1 that Lebron or KD were going to be great players very early in their careers?

 

The Sixers (nor the Wizards) have that kind of player currently that is actually playing (Embiid might be that guy, but he's also a big man with foot problems.  If I were running an NBA team, I'd not be to eager to gamble the future of my franchise on him.  They also got a 6-10 guy in Europe who I know even less about).

 

Could the Sixers have kept the group they had together added players with the picks they had and made the playoffs in a few years?

 

Sure!  Absolutely!

 

Maybe somewhere along the line they would have even made some conference championships.

 

And maybe they would have gotten lucky and made an NBA final or two.

 

And maybe they could get really really lucky and win an NBA championship.

 

In 3 years, could they have been where the Wizards are?

 

Yes!

 

But who really wants to be the 4th best team in what is clearly the weaker of the two NBA conferences with no clear path to improve?

 

Maybe KD will come to DC and that'll be the key.

 

But I wouldn't really want to bet the future of my franchise on that.

Edited February 20, 2015 by PeterMP

[PeterMP]

The Sixers dumped two guards that can't shoot.  There's no reason to think they were going to be able to become a really good team with those two guys, especially remembering one of them is a FA at the end of the year.

 

It isn't like they are getting really good shooting from their 4 or their 5 or expect to in the future (Embiid doesn't have a reputation as a stretch 5) that would off set having non-good shooting guards.

 

It made complete sense to dump the guards or you have to think about dumping Noel with the idea that you are going to get a stretch 4/5 to pair with your non-shooting guards.  Noel is already a positive player in terms of things like win shares, and he's not a FA at the end of the year.

Edited February 20, 2015 by PeterMP

[Hersh]

The Sixers dumped two guards that can't shoot.  There's no reason to think they were going to be able to become a really good team with those two guys, especially remembering one of them is a FA at the end of the year.

 

It isn't like they are getting really good shooting from their 4 or their 5 or expect to in the future (Embiid doesn't have a reputation as a stretch 5) that would off set having non-good shooting guards.

 

It made complete sense to dump the guard or you have to the about dumping Noel with the idea that you are going to get a stretch 4/5 to pair with your non-shooting guards.  Noel is already a positive player in terms of things like win shares, and he's not a FA at the end of the year.

 

Did anyone consider John Wall a good shooter in his second year in the NBA?

[PeterMP]

Did anyone consider John Wall a good shooter in his second year in the NBA?

 

Does anybody consider him a good shooter now for a guard?

 

He's a 30% 3 pt. shooter.

 

And I'm pretty sure his shot has always been considered better than MCW's.

Edited February 20, 2015 by PeterMP

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

While I don't think the Bucks should have gotten rid of Knight, if any coach is going to maximize the potential of a talented PG who can stuff the stat sheets but can't really shoot it would be Jason Kidd.

[Hersh]

Honestly, if I were the Wizards I would have kept rebuilding because I don't think they are going to win an NBA title with the group they have unless they get really really lucky.

 

And I'd be looking to be "rebuilding" even now.

 

In 2010, did people think Stephen Curry was going to be an MVP candidate? Was Marc Gasol an all-star big man immediately? Tony Parker wasn't a superstar right away and he couldn't shoot either. You can go decades without finding an immediate superstar.

 

To me, the only mistake the Wiz are making now is not playing Porter enough. Beyond that, by adding good veterans, the Wiz have been able to create a culture that has the opportunity to lead to prolonged winning.

Does anybody consider him a good shooter now for a guard?

 

He's a 30% 3 pt. shooter.

 

And I'm pretty sure his shot has always been considered better than MCW's.

 

Wall shot .409 his first year compared to MCW's .405.

 

Second year Wall was better but Wall was also beyond terrible from 3pt land.

[Mr. Sinister]

Bosh was hospitalized this morning complaining of chest pains. Figured he had some virus or something but I just saw on realgm that word is he's being tested for pulmonary embolism.

When it rains, it pours

[Hersh]

I don't really care about MCW. My point is mainly that teams really don't know about some of these potentially really good players in their first year or two.

 

Honestly, if the Wiz were really sucking still this year, I doubt KD even considers coming here in 2016. However, they have some really good young pieces, they are winning and now they have become a plausible destination for KD.

[PeterMP]

In 2010, did people think Stephen Curry was going to be an MVP candidate? Was Marc Gasol an all-star big man immediately? Tony Parker wasn't a superstar right away and he couldn't shoot either. You can go decades without finding an immediate superstar.

 

To me, the only mistake the Wiz are making now is not playing Porter enough. Beyond that, by adding good veterans, the Wiz have been able to create a culture that has the opportunity to lead to prolonged winning.

 

Wall shot .409 his first year compared to MCW's .405.

 

Second year Wall was better but Wall was also beyond terrible from 3pt land.

 

Curry's first year in the NBA he was a 43.7% 3 pt. shooter.  His effective FG% was 53.5%.

 

If either of the two guys they traded had numbers that looked like that, I'd be saying they made a mistake considering what they got back.

 

Gasol was a 7 footer that averaged double digit points with an eFG% of 53%.

 

They were both positive win share players in year one.

 

Those are guys that you keep.

 

Trading those types of guys would have been more akin to the Sixers trading Convington or Noel, and they didn't do that.

 

I mean heck, if McDanies isn't a free agent this year that changes things.

 

You traded one guy that has negative win shares for the year, and another guy that looks like he's a better player and probably has more upside, but is a free agent at the end of the year.

 

Those aren't people that you can really build around.

 

Might MCW fix his shot and become a really good player?

 

Yes.

 

Is it ikely?

 

No.

 

(And again, MCW becomes a much more valuable player if you know you are going to get scoring from somewhere else, especially on the perimeter.  But right now at least that doesn't appear to be in the Sixers future.  It appears they'll need a PG that can shoot.  MCW as a defensive stopper and a general play makers on a 2nd unit with a 3 or 4 that score/shoot (for a 2nd unit player) makes a lot of sense)

 

Might McDaniels turn into a really good player?

 

Yes.

 

Consider he's a free agent at the end of the year is there much reason to believe if he does it is likely to happen with the 76ers?

 

No.

Edited February 20, 2015 by PeterMP

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Bosh was hospitalized this morning complaining of chest pains. Figured he had some virus or something but I just saw on realgm that word is he's being tested for pulmonary embolism.

When it rains, it pours

Damn, blood clots are no joke.  My dad had one in his leg, ankle swollen up but with no pain.  Went to officiate a high school soccer game, one of the trainers for one of the teams just happened to be there, recognized it, drove him to the hospital.  

 

One piece breaks off........it's nite nite for good.  Scary stuff, glad Bosh got to the hospital before anything worse happened.

[Hersh]

 

 

You traded one guy that has negative win shares for the year, and another guy that looks like he's a better player and probably has more upside, but is a free agent at the end of the year.

 

 

 

Might MCW fix his shot and become a really good player?

 

Yes.

 

Is it ikely?

 

No.

 

 

Other players have fixed their shots.

 

Win Share= LOL

 

According to win share's this season, LeBron James is the 17th best player in the league. Plus, MCW had a positive win share his first year. Tons of guys have low win shares on significantly less dysfunctional franchises as the 76ers.

 

Bosh and Wade had good win shares last year. Best player in the league leaves and they drop off big time. Context is important.

[RonArtest15]

Devestating blow to the Heat.

 

Miami Heat’s Chris Bosh could miss remainder of the season with blood clots on his lungs

 

Edited February 20, 2015 by RonArtest15

[StillUnknown]

That is horrible news for the Heat.

 

On the bright side, at least he got medical attention before that situation could turn fatal.

[RonArtest15]

That is horrible news for the Heat.

 

On the bright side, at least he got medical attention before that situation could turn fatal.

 

Seriously.

 

After reading about what happened to Jerome Kersey, I'm glad that Bosh caught this in time. 

[PeterMP]

Other players have fixed their shots.

 

Win Share= LOL

 

According to win share's this season, LeBron James is the 17th best player in the league. Plus, MCW had a positive win share his first year. Tons of guys have low win shares on significantly less dysfunctional franchises as the 76ers.

 

Bosh and Wade had good win shares last year. Best player in the league leaves and they drop off big time. Context is important.

 

For somebody that doesn't really care about MCW, you certainly are spending a lot of time worrying about him.

 

There is no single perfect stats, but WS do a pretty good job of indicating somebody's worth, and MCW had a very low positive win shares last year.

 

I'm not using WS to argue that MCW is the 150th best player in the NBA.

 

Certainly not anything to suggest he's going to turn into a real good NBA player.

 

We talked about 2 young guys that were in bad situations that had good WS (Curry and Gasol), but on MCW's own team Noel and Convington both already have significantly better WS than MCW did this year or last year, and Noel is younger than MCW and Covington is only a year older, but is also getting his first real shot at playing in the NBA.

 

As the team around MCW has gotten better, he's gotten worse (and not just by WS).

 

And yes, some guys fix their shot, but there are a lot of guys that don't.

 

MCW is already 23 and in his 2nd year in the NBA and there's no real improvement in his shot and that's in terms of the stats and just looking at it in terms of the mechanics of it.

 

Might he figure it out this off season?  Yes, but there are lot's of guys that never do, and there really is no reason at this point in time to believe he will be one of the ones that does.

 

**EDIT**

I looked at every guard that is currently shooting 35% or over from the 3 pt. line.  If you look at the first year in which they had more then 10 3 pt.shots (just to get rid of cases where somebody didn't play much and the numbers are pretty meaningless), they all shot over 30% from the 3 pt. line except for 3.

 

JR Smith  Who as a 19 year old rookie shot 28.8%, but then the next year came back and shot 37.1%.

Chris Paul at age 20 and a rookie shot 28.2%, and the next year came back and shot 35%.

Jason Terry at age 22 as a rookie shot 29.3%, and the next year shot 39.5%.

Michael Cater Williams at 22 shot 26.4% and this year has stepped back to 25.8%.

 

It is highly unlikely that MCW is going to turn into a good shooter for a guard.

Edited February 20, 2015 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

Yeah good thing they found out about it. That is a very dangerous medical condition.

And on another bright side, at least they just got Dragic for a song. He can pick up a lot of that offensive load they're going to miss from Bosh. They'll be pretty good next season. Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh, Whiteside will be about as good a starting five as anyone in the East can trot out.

[Going Commando]

BTW PeterMP, Andrew Wiggins has an ocean to cross before he's as good and promising a player as John Wall. He's not been even close to as good as John was as a rookie and he's played with a lot better players than John did.

[PeterMP]

BTW PeterMP, Andrew Wiggins has an ocean to cross before he's as good and promising a player as John Wall. He's not been even close to as good as John was as a rookie and he's played with a lot better players than John did.

 

You really think the T-Wolves are a lot better than that Washington team was.

 

I'd agree that Wall was better, but I don't think it was an ocean difference and Wiggins is a year younger.

 

I'm not going to say that Wiggins is going to be a better player than Wall.  He's just an example of a guy that is in a comparable situation to MCW that can clearly play, and the stats bear that out.

 

And just to point out John Wall was a positive WS player his first year.  I can see, especially early in his career, thinking Wall is a guy that you might be able to build a championship team around.  

 

Similarly, Wiggins a guy where can at least see he might develop into a player that can lead a championship team.  Does he have to get better?  Yes, but you can see he has the skills to do it.

 

But Wall hasn't had the needed improvement as his shot hasn't gotten to where it needs to get if that's going to be the case.

 

Can Wall be a big part of it?  Yes.

 

But you're going to very likely need another significant (and likely even better) piece.  And they aren't easy to get in the NBA.

 

If Wall had (or does) make the jump to a 35+% 3 pt. shooter, which was more likely earlier in his career, then it is a different story.

 

Now, DC is an odd situation where this is other really good player out there that has a connection to DC and maybe he'll be willing to come to DC and maybe that connection gets them the other piece they need.  I don't know how realistic that is.

 

But that's not the situation in Philadelphia.  

Edited February 20, 2015 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

You really think the T-Wolves are a lot better than that Washington team was.

Yes. Wall's teams his first two seasons were about as bad as it gets. This Philly team is the only one that I can think of that's worse. The best player Wall played with his first two years was Trevor Booker and the only player he played with that became a starter for another team after they left the Wizards was Nick Young starting for an awful Lakers team. Wall was the longest tenured Wizard by the start of his third season. That's pretty unbelievable when you think about it.

Wall didn't have a Nikola Pekovich or a Ricky Rubio or Thaddeus Young. He didn't even have a Shabazz Muhammad or a Gorgui Dieng. He had Trevor Booker. Minnesota isn't close to as bad as Washington was and Wiggins hasn't had close to the responsibility Wall had nor has been close to as good as Wall was right out of the gate.

And yet you think Wiggins might be a foundation player for a contender and Wall isn't?

  

But Wall hasn't had the needed improvement as his shot hasn't gotten to where it needs to get if that's going to be the case.

Wall is a solid shooter and a bump in his 3 pt percentage wouldn't make a big change in his overall level of play because he shoots so few of them. Him improving as a 3 pt shooter isn't the key to contention for the Wizards either. What they need to make that leap, Bradley Beal isn't old and mature enough to give them yet. It's a similar situation to Golden State's before Klay Thompson came into his own as an All Star.

 

Now, the DC is an odd situation where this is other really good player out there that has a connection to DC and maybe he'll be willing to come to DC and maybe that connection gets them the other piece they need.  I don't know how realistic that is.

 

But that's not the situation in Philadelphia.

There is no chance Durant considers the Wizards for a second if they're still losing 50 or 60 games a year and rebuilding, despite the D.C. connection. To have any kind of real FA appeal, you have to be winning. Philly's decision to tank so hard is going to keep them from being a FA draw for a long time, closing off an important avenue for improvement.

And TBH, the Wizards probably only make it out of the gutter and become a mid-tier FA draw because Wall is so special. Wings want to come play with him because he gets them paid. It'll be harder for Philly to reach even a marginal level of FA appeal the moment they decide to stop tanking and start competing because they really don't have any sort of clear foundation player they're going to build around any more.

I actually agree with you that Philly needed to trade MCW and that his upside isn't as a superstar that yo u can have single-handedly be the foundation for a winner.

But I disagree with your hidden premise that you need such a player to legitimately compete for a title and I disagree that foundation players for contenders reveal themselves as rookies even for awful teams. The best team in the league right now has nothing resembling those type of superstar players and the defending champions don't either.

And the reason Philly needed to trade MCW was because they burned their bridge with him and made him disgruntled. And the fundamental reason for that was because of their decision to not field a competitive roster.

Teams that intentionally tank for years end up staying bad, changing management repeatedly, and shuffling their talent endlessly. Philly is already shuffling their talent, they just alienated and dealt away the ROTY from last season for marginal return. And they still don't seem to have a foundation set for their rebuild. That's a poor result for what's going to be three straight awful seasons. Meanwhile Atlanta has the best record in the NBA and a much brighter short and long term future IMO, two seasons after Danny Ferry took over. He never tanked, just cleaned up their cap situation, built a good team, and established a winning culture. Will they win a title? Who knows? But they've got as good, if not a better chance than the teams with Durant and LeBron on them this season. And in fact the teams that drafted LeBron and Durant and have now enjoyed 16 seasons with the two of them with zero rings to show for it. Miami lured James in FA for four years and got two rings out of it because they were already a top notch organization with a winning culture.

Eventually Philly is going to have to dance with the girl they brought and try and build something that can actually start winning. When you dive as deep in the gutter as they have it takes a long time to get to the point where you can legitimately compete each night, much less start winning, much less start contending. The Wizards are seven years in after they fell into the gutter and are still trying to develop to the point they can contend.

[Going Commando]

EDIT: Just saw that the team with the current best record in the NBA is Golden State, not Atlanta, who I meant in that post. But the point could stand for them too. Nobody thought about Curry or any of their other players as that kind of foundation player for a contending team when he was a rookie or sophomore. He got signed to a bargain sub-max extension following his rookie contract. He didn't redefine his ceiling and become a legitimate MVP-type player until this season. And I doubt he gets anywhere near this level of excellence unless Golden State decides they're going to stop living in the gutter and starts making the right moves to build around him, starting off with dealing Monta Ellis for Andrew Bogut in a trade that people killed them for at the time.

[RonArtest15]

[JoeWolf990]

I agree with most of what Steve said, except that Wall needs to take and make more 3s.

[RonArtest15]

Not to mention the environment was absolutely TOXIC here in DC.  I've said it before, but there isn't another PG in the league who would have thrived playing with the knuckleheads on the roster and the overall dysfunction in the organization. 

 

Wall, for all purposes, was set up to fail.  He rose above that because the Wizards had a complete overhaul, but man...things were EXTREMELY bad.