'Skins v. Dallas rivalry - More important Quantity or Quality?

[NoCalMike]

Growing up in the 90's was a pretty bad time for our side of the rivalry. It seems like the only guarantee was that the 'Skins would continually find ways to lose to the Cowboys. Whether it was a fumble at a crucial time, or a key turnover late in the game, one bad play on defense etc etc etc.....I sat through many games left with the feeling of "how can this happen again"

However, looking back on that decade and the rivalry before and after that decade makes me sort of re-evaluate it.

It's no secret that the Cowboys have a good number more wins over the 'Skins than vice versa, but when you examine the stat line closer, the rivalry was actually pretty even until the 90's when outside of the first three years, both teams were pretty bad. (The one weird season of '95 when both Frerotte and Shuler had wins over the Cowboys aside). For awhile it seemed like a mediocre Cowboys team pulling off a miracle against an awful 'Skins team, over and over and over.

Now, when I removed the the mid-90's-early 00's, what jumps out is not only is the rivalry pretty damn close in W/L, but also the 'Skins seem to be overly-dominant in big games that matter with playoff implications on the line.

2012 - Skins win win over Cowboys

2005 - Skins sweep Cowboys team including Week 16 win over Cowboys team looking to go to postseason

1982 - 'Skins over Cowboys in the Playoffs

1972 - 'Skins over Cowboys in Playoffs

I'm sure I am missing some, and there are probably some big games between the two the Cowboys might have won too that I just can't remember, but overall it seems that when both teams have been playoff potential teams and all the marbles were on the line, the 'Skins have been victorious.

Hey, it's May....slow news day, and just thinking of some little things to get me through the offseason!

[LD0506]

Eh, let Robert spank their asses for the next decade and see how the numbers look

[issapunk]

I believe the Redskins are undefeated against the Cowboys when the game is a 'one and done' type situation. Also, when both the Redskins and Cowboys finish the season with a winning record, 8-8+, the Redskins dominate in wins in that stat too I believe.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

http://httr24-7.com/blog/the-rivalry-key-matchups/

Some light reading.

[HeluCopter29]

They've never beaten us for anything important. And that's what matters IMO.

[End2round2sanders]

'92 @ Wash the sack fumble TD play vs the soon to be SB champs. Great game.

'93 @ Wash Season opener, the peak of that season 35-16 MNF win

95- The sweep season first win IN Dallas since '91

'96 @Dal heartbreaking loss after we had controlled that game. @ Wash RFK finale 37-10 win where we discovered how to score pts for the first time in 5 weeks. Didn't help heal the wounds with that season collapse

'99- Season opener, Rocket Ismail is still running

'01 @Dal MNF Stephen Davis fumbles late and ends up the deciding factor. 9-7 final

[Henry]

Well, you can't take away the 90s. Sorry, those games still count. That's like Dallas saying if you don't count the second quarter they'd have won the Thanksgiving game against us, and that means we didn't REALLY sweep them last season.

Dallas now has a comfortable lead in head to head games. That's a fact.

However, we are 2-0 in playoff games against them (and more importantly, NFC Championship games) so that's still a feather in our cap, so to speak.

What would be nice now is a run of Redskin dominance for a change. Something to balance out the 22-game deficit we currently face. We sure are due.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Henry, that's very true. We need to turn the tides and close the gap. However, like you alluded to, from my calculations we are 3-1 in games that have directly led to a shot at a title. We have the 2-0 record in the playoffs, and the 1-1 record in regular season finale, win-or-go-home games.

It's a small consolation, but it's nice to know that we've directly ended their season 3 times!

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I can see the 'rivalry' becoming a 'rivalry' in name only again going forward ala the '90's.

Back then, Dallas owned our ass to the point it wasn't even funny, Redskins/ Cowboys games mattered little except to fan pride and had little impact on the National radar. Now the boots on the other foot, the Cowboys are a pale shadow of their former selves; and we are a vibrant, young, rebuilt team ready for our own period of domination.

Point being, a rivalry when one team is SO dominant is a rivalry in name only. If there's no competition, you've nothing to 'rival' against.

This goes against the norm as it includes a strong Dallas team, but I LONG for the days when Redskins-Cowboys match-up's actually meant something beyond fan pride. When the games grabbed the whole Country and had National implications league wide. A strong Washington and a strong Dallas team is a healthy and good thing and would really bring the rivalry back to the fore.

Kicking their lame ass is great season on season. But ultimately diminishes any semblance of what, when both teams are strong and fighting for NFC titles; is the biggest and best rivalry in sports. When it's all one sided, it sadly no longer is.

Hail.

[pjfootballer]

Funny that we all focus on the Cowboys rivalry that were are down 42-62-2, yet we are down even more to the Giants (64-92-4), but the good news is, we lead the Eagles (81-70-5). Too bad the Cardinals aren't still in our division. We're up on them by a good margin (74-44-2).

We're down 20 to the Cowboys

We're down 28 to the Giants

We're up 11 to the Eagles

[TD_washingtonredskins]

GHH, we aren't quite there yet. They may be trending down and we may be trending up, but we pretty much intersected last year (and were arguably a few plays away from both finishing 9-7 and splitting our head-to-head games). If the trends continue, I could see a fun Redskin run. But nothing is set in stone and we are NOT an established dominant team yet.

[Henry]

GHH, we aren't quite there yet. They may be trending down and we may be trending up, but we pretty much intersected last year (and were arguably a few plays away from both finishing 9-7 and splitting our head-to-head games). If the trends continue, I could see a fun Redskin run. But nothing is set in stone and we are NOT an established dominant team yet.

Yeah. We DID just play them for the division title the last week of this past season.

I don't think I'll lament the fact that they suck until they actually do suck ...

... and then I'll probably be happy about it.

[thebluefood]

I believe the Redskins are undefeated against the Cowboys when the game is a 'one and done' type situation. Also, when both the Redskins and Cowboys finish the season with a winning record, 8-8+, the Redskins dominate in wins in that stat too I believe.

Wasn't the week 16 game in '79 between the 'Boys and 'Skins a "winner-take-all" for the division, too?

[cphil006]

Quality... When it counts.... I hope over time we have our success. We have an opportunity now.

They beat us a lot during the Norv years.... How he got a second and third chance at being a head coach is beyond me. He's a good "play caller" lol.

[Dark Acre]

Wasn't the week 16 game in '79 between the 'Boys and 'Skins a "winner-take-all" for the division, too?

Yes it was. Gdamn Cardinals.

[Warhead36]

We beat them when it counts. That's all that matters.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

As a kid, I always remembered chalking up each Dallas game as a loss. Thank God it is different now.

Still, whenever we beat Dallas, it feels so damn good

[hail2skins]

Wasn't the week 16 game in '79 between the 'Boys and 'Skins a "winner-take-all" for the division, too?

That still remains the all-time worst game for longtime Skins fans. Worse than 38-9 in XVIII, because that was a butt-kicking from start to end. I literally think ES would've exploded after the '79 game if it had been around back then,

But speaking of the XVIII season, one of the more satisfying Skins wins over the Cowboys was in late '83. We had blown a 23-3 halftime lead in the MNF season opener and lost 33-31 to them, but both teams were 12-2 heading into the rematch. Skins get out to 17-0 lead, then Dallas cuts it to 17-14, and then we have the "No Danny No" 4th down, then the Cowboys secondary trying to stop the Fun Bunch after a long TD pass to Monk.......31-14 Skins.

[pjfootballer]

That still remains the all-time worst game for longtime Skins fans. Worse than 38-9 in XVIII, because that was a butt-kicking from start to end. I literally think ES would've exploded after the '79 game if it had been around back then,

But speaking of the XVIII season, one of the more satisfying Skins wins over the Cowboys was in late '83. We had blown a 23-3 halftime lead in the MNF season opener and lost 33-31 to them, but both teams were 12-2 heading into the rematch. Skins get out to 17-0 lead, then Dallas cuts it to 17-14, and then we have the "No Danny No" 4th down, then the Cowboys secondary trying to stop the Fun Bunch after a long TD pass to Monk.......31-14 Skins.

We lost the MNF opener 31-30, the same game in which rookie Darrell Green playing in his first NFL game ever, ran down Tony Dorsett. The 33-31 game was in Texas Stadium in the 1991 season where Chip Lohmiller was booting the hell out of the ball.

Hated the 79 game. I also hate the Cardinals for that. If they had have made the game close with Chicago, we would have gotten in as the wild card, but they completly failed 42-6. Thank god Vince Ferragamo beat the Cowboys 2 weeks later. Fun fact, if we had have won, we would have played the Eagles in the wild card game.

[Diss]

I've had this argument many times with Dallas fans. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that we have them beat in terms of quality wins. That 1979 game was the only time they beat us when everything was on the line.

We beat them in TWO NFC Championship games. We potentially stole two SB rings off their fingers. That's pretty huge all by itself. Would you rather be able to brag about a double-digit winning streak against them from a time when both of our teams sucked and competed for nothing, or would you trade that for one Super Bowl title? That's what I thought. Then there are the other games mentioned - the 1983 slug-fest for the division, the 2005 game, the win last year for the division.

I'll take those quality wins any day over all those losses when both teams were finishing 5-11 for a decade. They hurt at the time, but I barely remember any of those games. In the grand scheme of things, they didn't mean much.

I do remember one great line from a Cowboys fan, though, that still makes me laugh to this day. A little profane, but I thought it was hilarious at the time. It was right after Norv was finally fired, and this Cowboy fan came into a Redskins newsgroup and said, "Norv, this is Jerry Jones. Operation ButtF*** complete. Return to base."

That still makes me laugh to this day.

[hail2skins]

I'll take those quality wins any day over all those losses when both teams were finishing 5-11 for a decade. They hurt at the time, but I barely remember any of those games. In the grand scheme of things, they didn't mean much.

True, but up until that MNF 2005 game, there was a stretch where it seemed like they would always get the better of us in either heartbreaking fashion or games which had some relative importance. Consider:

1999: We blow a 21-point 4th quarter lead in the season opener and lose in OT at FedEx. Then we win four straight but go to Dallas and get reamed by Deion.

2000: Everyone all psyched about the Fortune 500 Skins.....but they beat us in a high profile MNF game at FedEx early in the season. Then late in the season Norv gets fired but we're technically still alive, but they drum us down there, including the sight of allowing Ebenezer Ekuban drag Jeff George around like a rag doll.

2001: Thoroughly ugly MNF game at Dallas in which Stephen Davis fumbles late, leading to the GWFG to drop us to 0-5. But then we go on a run to get us to 5-5, and everyone is psyched, and who do we come home to play? The Cowboys, who stop our winning streak cold.

2002: Our last Thanksgiving game before RG3 mauled them this year. Wuerffel threw a pass that skipped off a running back's hands and into the arm of a Dallas defender who took it into the end zone. I think this is the game where Kleese said he got pissed and didn't talk to his wife the whole way back home.

2003: Don't remember much about the game in Dallas, but the Cowboys crushed us here like 34-0 in a late-season game where the Skins had all but given up.

2004: Still remember the late season game in Dallas. Both teams really had nothing to play for, but Vinny Testaverde's 40-yard pass with under a minute left to Patrick Crayton still made me spike the remote control, and log onto ES and use profanity

That's what made the 2005 and 2006 games where we finally turned the tables on them pretty sweet.

[Diss]

True, but up until that MNF 2005 game, there was a stretch where it seemed like they would always get the better of us in either heartbreaking fashion or games which had some relative importance. Consider:

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying those losses you mention didn't hurt at the time, and it's never fun to think about them. But in the grand scheme of things, they just didn't and don't mean much.

1999: We blow a 21-point 4th quarter lead in the season opener and lose in OT at FedEx. Then we win four straight but go to Dallas and get reamed by Deion.

Terrible, frustrating game. But we still ended up making it to the playoffs and getting a FG try away from the NFC Championship game.

2000: Everyone all psyched about the Fortune 500 Skins.....but they beat us in a high profile MNF game at FedEx early in the season. Then late in the season Norv gets fired but we're technically still alive, but they drum us down there, including the sight of allowing Ebenezer Ekuban drag Jeff George around like a rag doll.

An embarrassment, but hardly unexpected considering the obvious mess the team was at the time. That team was going absolutely nowhere period, and everybody knew it well before that game.

2001: Thoroughly ugly MNF game at Dallas in which Stephen Davis fumbles late, leading to the GWFG to drop us to 0-5. But then we go on a run to get us to 5-5, and everyone is psyched, and who do we come home to play? The Cowboys, who stop our winning streak cold.

Horrible, embarrassing game for both teams. That fumble by Davis was a little soul-destroying at the time, but even then, we knew we were only playing for a moment of fleeting pride. And the fact that Shanny couldn't finish what he started by beating the Cowboys just shows to me that he wasn't the right guy for the job anyway. He did not have that team ready for that game. They beat us convincingly and then went 5-11 again, I believe.

2002: Our last Thanksgiving game before RG3 mauled them this year. Wuerffel threw a pass that skipped off a running back's hands and into the arm of a Dallas defender who took it into the end zone. I think this is the game where Kleese said he got pissed and didn't talk to his wife the whole way back home.

Game that started strong for us and finished awfully. Definitely seemed snake-bit. But again, we were not a good team that year. And the game that REALLY meant something - D. Green's final game as a Redskin, we won. That was also, I believe, Emmitt Smith's last game as a Cowboy, and we stuffed him and kept him from getting 1,000 yards on the season for maybe the first time ever (?). If we'd lost THAT game, it would've been much tougher and more memorable, sending Green out on a low note. His last game as a 'Skin would forever be remembered as a loss to Dallas. Now Smith's last game as a Cowboy is remembered as a loss to us. Similar in feel to us spoiling the induction of The Triplets on MNF.

2003: Don't remember much about the game in Dallas, but the Cowboys crushed us here like 34-0 in a late-season game where the Skins had all but given up.

We'd all given up by then. Not a single fan I knew expected to win that game. Humiliating, yes. Shut-outs are the worst. But the game lives in a vacuum. Meant little beyond the day it was played.

2004: Still remember the late season game in Dallas. Both teams really had nothing to play for, but Vinny Testaverde's 40-yard pass with under a minute left to Patrick Crayton still made me spike the remote control, and log onto ES and use profanity

That one really, really sucked. But, the team WAS starting to show signs of improvement under Gibbs back then. But yeah, that one did hurt.

Again, those losses really sucked at the time, and it's not like I enjoy thinking about them now, obviously, but in the spirit of the OP, when it comes to quality vs. quantity, we are definitely ahead. Hopefully one of these days we'll catch up in numbers, too.

[TheItalianStallion]

How did the series stand as of the beginning of the 1996 season?

[Bishop Hammer]

I've always viewed Dal week as just another game but when Was played them in the last game of the season it was the most thrilling exciting game I went to in my life. That stated I hate NY more.