Per ESPN: Report: Auburn bribed players

[pjfootballer]

http://media.avclub.com/images/393/393891/16x9/627.jpg?5800

Storage Wars Dave Hester- Yuuup!

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 10:55 AM ----------

These investigations are starting to become a annoyance to me as a fan. Perhaps more so than the cheating itself. Years later we have to hear about this bull**** all the time in every sport. They need to really improve their control on the front end because this constant spoiling of virtually everything after the fact is not doing anything for the sport or the entertainment value.

Now we'll likely all be asked to pretend Auburn never won and and the school will be penalized despite everyone being long gone. While seemingly every level of sports have fallen to corruption no organization is as ridiculous as the NCAA.

Yo! Does this mean we won?

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 10:57 AM ----------

How many adults well into their 30's are still trying to pay off their student loans. In reality, these athletes are getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in return for their contributions on a football or basketball field.

Not a bad deal at all. Free room. Free board. Free tuition. An opportunity to learn and apprentice in a program that might net them millions.

I really don't have much sympathy for the poor taken advantage of athlete. Yes, the school makes money too, but that's capitalism and frankly, the boss always makes more than the employee.

Free books, Free medical (Kevin Ware will not have a medical bill), Free travel, Free hotels and debt free from student loans when they leave.

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 11:01 AM ----------

Fair, but I'd argue that some of that is choice. Yes, the schedule is brutal esp. for half the year, but to say they get nothing and the colleges are screwing them over is also absurd. They are getting an incredible opportunity and a ton of resources to the degree they take advantage of them is at least partly on their own head. Admittedly, during the season for those three months, academic pursuit is much harder, but in a sense how different than the guy working two part time jobs to pay for his tuition and handling a full load of classwork?

Had a friend who was on his own, worked a job at 32 hours a week, took a full schedule of classes and was in the university's marching band.

When I was a senior in HS, I went to HS in the morning, college in the afternoon (college waiver), worked a part time job of up to 30 hrs a week AND marched in the marching band (drums).

A-freakin'-men! If the "poor" elite athlete has it so bad, why don't more turn down the chance to play at an elite college program? For every college athlete whining about being exploited, there are literally thousands of others willing to take his place.

If these guys are so damn poor, where did they get the money for those 2 and 3 hundred dollar tatoos all over their bodies? Alot of them have ink worth a few grand.

[DjTj]

How many adults well into their 30's are still trying to pay off their student loans. In reality, these athletes are getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in return for their contributions on a football or basketball field.

Not a bad deal at all. Free room. Free board. Free tuition. An opportunity to learn and apprentice in a program that might net them millions.

I really don't have much sympathy for the poor taken advantage of athlete. Yes, the school makes money too, but that's capitalism and frankly, the boss always makes more than the employee.

These scandals are not about the poor student athletes. Nobody is claiming that they are the victims here.

The issue is that we have a flawed system that is trying to enforce rules in a futile struggle against market forces. Recruits have something that colleges want (athletic ability). Colleges have something that the recruits want (money). Some colleges want certain recruits more than other colleges. But the NCAA says that they can't offer the recruits anything other than scholarships, and each school is basically offering the same thing. It is a system that is doomed to failure. We have willing buyers and willing sellers but an attempt to administratively shut down the market. In every situation like this, a black market develops.

It's not about fairness to the athlete or whatever, it's about a flawed system that inevitably creates corruption.

[Mursilis]

If these guys are so damn poor, where did they get the money for those 2 and 3 hundred dollar tatoos all over their bodies? Alot of them have ink worth a few grand.

I'm pretty sure there's some sort of federal program providing tattoos for the underprivileged. There was a Washington Post article about food stamps a few weeks ago in which a young couple was profiled. Despite being on food stamps, they both had tattoos. The husband had several up both arms, in fact.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

My response to this is that the students didn't get paid enough. The NCAA is a fraud and everyone knows it. Its time to get the athletes their fair share of the proceeds and allow them to be treated like the working adults they are.

[Monte51Coleman]

While seemingly every level of sports have fallen to corruption no organization is as ridiculous as the NCAA.

While every level of life has always been rife with corruption, no segment is as ridiculous as ___________________. (churches, governments, financial institutions, police departments, etc etc, etc.) Why would sports be any different?

[pjfootballer]

It's not about fairness to the athlete or whatever, it's about a flawed system that inevitably creates corruption.

But paying athletes or having universities bidding on their services would be a bigger disaster. You think Alabama dominates now. Give them an open checkbook and they'll be naming the college trophy "the Crimson Tide" trophy.

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 12:04 PM ----------

My response to this is that the students didn't get paid enough. The NCAA is a fraud and everyone knows it. Its time to get the athletes their fair share of the proceeds and allow them to be treated like the working adults they are.

So how much? I mean, with all the "free" things (tuition, books, etc) that they already receive, that adds up into the hundreds of thousands for the university to eat. Some people act like the 20 million a year (using that as an example as alot of payouts the universities get vary) the schools get for TV, bowls, tournaments and such, go right into their pockets. Universities have bills to pay. Who pays for that students tuition, books, meals, electricity, water, medical bills, uniforms, equipment, plane tickets, hotel rooms, etc? Where do you think that money comes from? Plus, the money they get pays for other athletic programs that have the same types of expenses. So, do they get paid minimum wage or what?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

So how much? I mean, with all the "free" things (tuition, books, etc) that they already receive, that adds up into the hundreds of thousands for the university to eat. Some people act like the 20 million a year (using that as an example as alot of payouts the universities get vary) the schools get for TV, bowls, tournaments and such, go right into their pockets. Universities have bills to pay. Who pays for that students tuition, books, meals, electricity, water, medical bills, uniforms, equipment, plane tickets, hotel rooms, etc? Where do you think that money comes from? Plus, the money they get pays for other athletic programs that have the same types of expenses. So, do they get paid minimum wage or what?

How about let the market figure it out. No, I'm not kidding, and most people know on this board that I am not a conservative political guy.

Trying to keep the politics out of it, here's the problem with this to me. Basically, the NCAA is a monopoly. They have huge market power in athletics. The "student-athletes" are the labor. I don't care what anyone says, that's what's happening. And basically, they have instituted rules that prevent them from having any union, or any negotiating power. Then, the employer-NCAA just rakes in billions of dollars (not an exaggeration). This is an antitrust violation, and it shouldn't be allowed to stand. The reason it has is the counter argument is "what happens to college sports."

That's a strawman though because no on really knows what will happen. And its being offered to control a group of people with a particular skill that they should be compensated for.

Now, throw in that the NCAA is totally corrupt and unable to police itself anyways, and you have a real disaster. Which is what major college athletics is now.

By the way, you don't have to give kids tuition, books, etc. then. You just pay them.

[pjfootballer]

How about let the market figure it out. No, I'm not kidding, and most people know on this board that I am not a conservative political guy.

By the way, you don't have to give kids tuition, books, etc. then. You just pay them.

Hope you are an Alabama or Texas fan, because if they get free reign to pay players, you may as well shut down 100 of the 120+ D1 programs. No one will be able to compete. It would be like giving the Redskins and Cowboys free of the cap constraints and telling Buffalo and Green Bay to "try and keep up suckas."

[Mursilis]

By the way, you don't have to give kids tuition, books, etc. then. You just pay them.

Would the players even have to go to classes, or would that be optional?

[Bang]

If my son was a superstar athlete, I'd get him an agent as a senior in high school.

~Bang

[Corcaigh]

Would the players even have to go to classes, or would that be optional?

It would be optional. Same as today.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

While seemingly every level of sports have fallen to corruption no organization is as ridiculous as the NCAA.

I don't think most American pro leagues are "corrupt." I think college athletics are inherently corrupt and nothing can really be done to change that. It's an entire system based on the exploitation of free labor.

Louisville is selling t-shirts with Kevin Ware's number on them for the Final Four. Guess who is not getting money off that? The guy whose leg snapped.

[DjTj]

Hope you are an Alabama or Texas fan, because if they get free reign to pay players, you may as well shut down 100 of the 120+ D1 programs. No one will be able to compete. It would be like giving the Redskins and Cowboys free of the cap constraints and telling Buffalo and Green Bay to "try and keep up suckas."

If you're really worried about competitive balance in a free market for college athletes, then the problem has already been solved by the other major sports leagues: implement a salary cap and revenue sharing.

Honestly, I don't even think there needs to be a completely free market. Just giving the athletes moderate stipends ($10k if you make varsity, $1k bonus for each game played) would reduce the effectiveness of bribes. Also, the NCAA just needs to have a more permanent reporting structure. Having legal payments, even if pretty small, would create a paper trail where the universities take control of the money being paid, and it would make it easier for the NCAA to police real violations. Pay the players a few thousand dollars, and then go after the people who are really abusing the system by giving players hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. There won't be as much sympathy for rulebreakers in those cases.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If my son was a superstar athlete, I'd get him an agent as a senior in high school.

~Bang

If he was a baseball player, hockey player, golfer, tennis player, or Olympic athlete, he could. He could not if he were a basketball or football player.

Because that makes sense, right?

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 11:44 AM ----------

True. However the Confederate Conference has made it into a new art form.

Ahhhhh...these guys are amateurs compare to the glory days of the Souhtwest Conference. Now, that was some cheating with style.

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 11:48 AM ----------

Fair, but I'd argue that some of that is choice. Yes, the schedule is brutal esp. for half the year, but to say they get nothing and the colleges are screwing them over is also absurd. They are getting an incredible opportunity and a ton of resources to the degree they take advantage of them is at least partly on their own head. Admittedly, during the season for those three months, academic pursuit is much harder, but in a sense how different than the guy working two part time jobs to pay for his tuition and handling a full load of classwork?

They are not allowed to work. They are operating under multiple threats to their scholarship status. (Not good enough? Injured? Not making grades? Back home, boy!) They are the highest profile students on campus and have to live the life of a celebrity with none of the financial perks associated with it. I just don't see tuition and a dorm room as all that great a trade-off considering what is expected in return.

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 11:53 AM ----------

Hope you are an Alabama or Texas fan, because if they get free reign to pay players, you may as well shut down 100 of the 120+ D1 programs. No one will be able to compete. It would be like giving the Redskins and Cowboys free of the cap constraints and telling Buffalo and Green Bay to "try and keep up suckas."

You can put restraints on the money paid. It does no one any good if there are only a handful of competitive teams. (Though in reality, that was the case until the 80s and college stadiums were still filled).

What is absolute insanity is that there are 100 D-1 programs. What in the hell is Toledo doing trying to compete on the same level of Alabama or Texas? It's madness.

[pjfootballer]

What is absolute insanity is that there are 100 D-1 programs. What in the hell is Toledo doing trying to compete on the same level of Alabama or Texas? It's madness.

That is a good point. With all the conference realignment, conferences like CUSA have had to dig into the Sun Belt and teams like UT San Antonio. Who knew UTSA even had a football team? I often wondered about teams that are in the MAC and Sunbelt. They "know" they will never play for a national title, so why not go down to 1-AA and compete in their playoffs instead. I guess they go to D1 status for the money. Everyone wants a piece of the pie.

[Mursilis]

I don't think most American pro leagues are "corrupt." I think college athletics are inherently corrupt and nothing can really be done to change that. It's an entire system based on the exploitation of free labor.

Not all college athletics is corrupt - just the big money sports. Because I have daughters, we've attended a few women's college games. I seriously doubt women's soccer players at small-time schools are getting their grades changed or receive under-the-table handouts from boosters. I don't even think most of them get scholarships.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Not all college athletics is corrupt - just the big money sports. Because I have daughters, we've attended a few women's college games. I seriously doubt women's soccer players at small-time schools are getting their grades changed or receive under-the-table handouts from boosters. I don't even think most of them get scholarships.

For the most part, you are correct. That still doesn't stop scandals from popping up in the non-revenue generating sports.

But really we are talking football and to a lesser degree basketball here. Those are billion dollar industries that really should not be connected to non-profit educational institutions at this point.

If I told you that Harvard was about to buy the Buffalo Bills and the Harvard admissions office would take over the GM duties, wouldn't you think that was insane?

[Corcaigh]

They are not allowed to work. They are operating under multiple threats to their scholarship status. (Not good enough? Injured? Not making grades? Back home' date=' boy!) They are the highest profile students on campus and have to live the life of a celebrity with none of the financial perks associated with it. I just don't see tuition and a dorm room as all that great a trade-off considering what is expected in return.[/quote']

A kid I coached for many years has just left a top DI program (and an extremely well regarded school academically) because of injury before graduating. His coach pressured him to play through injury to the point where the kid is very seriously hurt and may suffer long term health consequences. And being seriously hurt he's not welcome on the team and lost scholarship.

The opportunity of playing DI sports at a very high profile school and getting a significant portion of the cost covered was something he felt worth accepting, even though his education has suffered and he was very bright academically. Now there is an awful lot of regret.

[Mursilis]

For the most part' date=' you are correct. That still doesn't stop scandals from popping up in the non-revenue generating sports.

But really we are talking football and to a lesser degree basketball here. Those are billion dollar industries that really should not be connected to non-profit educational institutions at this point.

If I told you that Harvard was about to buy the Buffalo Bills and the Harvard admissions office would take over the GM duties, wouldn't you think that was insane?[/quote']

I agree this is mostly a football and basketball issue, which is why I ignore those two sports at the collegiate level - too much corruption. I wouldn't miss them if they ceased to exist. I don't know how these programs could be severed from the educational institutions that run them, however. They have far too many fans as it currently stands.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Hope you are an Alabama or Texas fan, because if they get free reign to pay players, you may as well shut down 100 of the 120+ D1 programs. No one will be able to compete. It would be like giving the Redskins and Cowboys free of the cap constraints and telling Buffalo and Green Bay to "try and keep up suckas."

I am neither. But this is a good illustration of what I think is unfair. What you saying is that the system of college athletics needs to be protected. That for some reason, 18-22 year old adults who happen to have supreme athletic ability to their peers, should not be afforded the same access to the laws as any other employee.

If we decided to actually apply the laws to the NCAA, then I don't know if every university would be able to have a football team. But I'm not agreeing that's a bad thing. Maybe not every school can afford it. But, people won't be taken advantage of for the expense of spectators' gratification then.

To me, that's a "good" that should be sought.

Would the players even have to go to classes, or would that be optional?

It's up to the school to negotiate whatever they want.

I don't hold the "student-athlete" on a pedestal though. Let's get over the players going to classes as some sort of important thing because 1) they don't go now, and 2) the thing that most prepares these super-athletes for their lives is the sport they play.

[Corcaigh]

But really we are talking football and to a lesser degree basketball here. Those are billion dollar industries that really should not be connected to non-profit educational institutions at this point.

Yeah ... do any of the alumni care how the soccer/hockey/lacrosse/track/volleyball/wrestling/field hockey/ etc. etc sports are doing. Sure, provide some resources so that they can get all the benefits of sports and compete at a club level, but this whole recruiting/scholarship/eligibility/compliance model which is driving college sports is ludicrous.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Just to throw gasoline on the first, to prove a point:

It’s impossible to be surprised by the dreadful hubris and hypocrisy of college sports, which seem a daily occurrence, much like the sun rising in the east. Today’s installment deals with Louisville and Rutgers.

Adidas has selflessly printed up T-shirts that say “Ri5e to the occasion” — referring to Cardinals guard Kevin Ware, who wore No. 5 — and will sell them for a mere $24.99. Louisville has graciously waived any profit from the shirts, and the money will go instead to Ware.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/kevin-ware-mike-rice-situations-are-latest-college-sports-maladies/2013/04/04/d88961d0-9d2b-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html?hpid=z1

To me, this is a disgrace. Its disgusting, and people act like its more important that college hoops not have to compensate the athletes than a kid lose everything, AND a huge company get paid even more money on him.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Would the players even have to go to classes, or would that be optional?

It's a choice. I see no reason why it can't be a two-tiered system. If you want to play college football and get an economics degree, do it. If you want to play college football and not go to class, do it. Maybe we have different schools for both. Who knows?

I know that when I watch LSU-Alabama, the last thing I worry about is GPAs. I certainly don't worry about the Redskins' reading lists.

---------- Post added April-4th-2013 at 12:37 PM ----------

Just to throw gasoline on the first, to prove a point:

It’s impossible to be surprised by the dreadful hubris and hypocrisy of college sports, which seem a daily occurrence, much like the sun rising in the east. Today’s installment deals with Louisville and Rutgers.

Adidas has selflessly printed up T-shirts that say “Ri5e to the occasion” — referring to Cardinals guard Kevin Ware, who wore No. 5 — and will sell them for a mere $24.99. Louisville has graciously waived any profit from the shirts, and the money will go instead to Ware.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/kevin-ware-mike-rice-situations-are-latest-college-sports-maladies/2013/04/04/d88961d0-9d2b-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html?hpid=z1

You left out the most important part. Ware is NOT getting money from the shirts.

No, wait, it won’t. As with all student-athletes, Ware gets squadoosh, even for a T-shirt that is supposedly printed in his honor. Adidas has graciously agreed to donate a portion of its profits to the school’s scholarship fun. So a T-shirt and a university will profit from the horrific injury Ware suffered in Louisville’s Elite Eight game against Duke on Sunday.

Here’s the kicker: The NCAA does not require schools to pick up the tab for medical bills incurred while playing for said schools, from pulled hamstrings to the gruesome injury suffered by Ware. And because Ware is not considered an employee of the university, he is not eligible for worker’s compensation. (Yes, he and other athletes receive scholarships, but that can’t continue to be the easy retort when the topic of stipends and other assistance is raised.)

Louisville is not obligated to pay Ware’s medical bills, which will likely be staggering considering the extent of the injury and the amount of rehabilitation he’ll need. Ware and athletes at many schools are expected to use their personal insurance to cover costs. The good news is that the school is doing the right thing: It will pay Ware’s costs.

By the way, the exemption from work comp laws is why the term "student-athletes" exists. Injured pro athletes are eligible for work comp.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

You left out the most important part. Ware is NOT getting money from the shirts.

By the way' date=' the exemption from work comp laws is why the term "student-athletes" exists. Injured pro athletes are eligible for work comp.[/quote']

Yea, assumed people would click on the link. That's exactly right though.

"Student-athletes" is a loophole created by NCAA to get around federal laws. Everyone needs to realize how unjust this system is.

[HeluCopter29]

Honestly, they shouldn't even have these kids go to classes while at school.

Pay them for 4 years of sports and give them a lifetime access to classes for as long as it takes for them to earn an actual degree.

Let's not pretend these kids are prepared after they graduate for anything other then sports.... which most of them won't be doing.