Soup Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Sorry if the title is not protocol but Its been a while since I've made a thread. Today on ESPN Outside the Lines Ray from Sow will be on the show discussing the Redskins name and defending it. Of course we're expecting ESPN to throw the book at us but hopefully we'll not mess up and actually put out good points. Live twitter updates from Ray @SonofWashington our site SonofWashington.com Thanks :point2sky http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P70oy1KOk5M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Kao Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Good Luck! Hopefully they'll take an even-handed approach! The last I've read, polls indicate that Native Americans overwhelmingly don't care one way or the other. The rest of the world should stop trying to convince them that they should be offended by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 we're taking any good points you guys may have. just post it here or send a mention to Ray on twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I don't know if I would say this on TV per say, but nobody has yet to answer the question why are Native Americans/Indians aren't defending this as hard as White Americans are. It's crazy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 If they ask something like would you call a native american a redskin, I would imply that i wouldn't call them a redskin, or a brave, or a seminole, or an irish guy a fightin irish, or a spanish guy a buccaneer, etc. Poll that has been posted everywhere on here shows that 90% of NA are not offended. Term was actually used by NA first to differentiate themselves from white folks. It's the way they communicated back then. The only reason they are named redskins in the first place is because of Lone Star Dietz and the fact that they shared a stadium with the red sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Also mention that certain WaPo agenda boys like Wise, Reid, Milloy, etc do not represent the Redskins fanbase. Those three guys are complete hacks. They never once cried about the Redskins name until the team became relevant and won the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Great point MLskins, Added that to notes for the show. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 This drives me crazy. Good luck today, boys. This won't help with your notes, but as a person of Native American descent, it is the REASON I became a Skins fan, having never lived in the DC area. It was a term of pride, not derogatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Quoted this from a post BG made.... http://www.bluecorncomics.com/redskins.htm "So does Walter Wetzel, former chairman of the Blackfoot tribe and president of the National Congress of American Indians in the 1960s. By the early '60s, the Redskins had dropped any reference to Indians in their logo, uniforms and merchandise. Wetzel went to the Redskins office with photos of Indians in full headdress. "I said, 'I'd like to see an Indian on your helmets,' " which then sported a big "R" as the team logo, remembers Wetzel, now 86 and retired in Montana. Within weeks, the Redskins had a new logo, a composite Indian taken from the features in Wetzel's pictures. "It made us all so proud to have an Indian on a big-time team. . . . It's only a small group of radicals who oppose those names. Indians are proud of Indians." Snyder, meanwhile, intends to keep the name, no matter the protests. "Frankly, we don't hear much from fans about this," Swanson says. "Words take power from their usage. We don't use funny mascots. We don't have tomahawk chops. We've always used the word in a respectful way, to mean tradition, courage and respect." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Good Luck to you guys. Turned it down out of fear they will paint you as a racist if you disagree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 The two big things that tend to get brought up are origin of the term "Redskin" and it's offensiveness to Native Americans. There are some good studies on both of those points: Here's a comprehensive study on the origin of the term. Basically, it was first used for self-reference by Native Americans:http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf Here's a link to the only scientific poll I know of, of Native Americans concerning the name. It's from 2004, but this isn't an issue where large changes occur, it's pretty static, so there shouldn't be major changes over the past 8 years: http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/downloads/political_communication/naes/2004_03_redskins_09-24_pr.pdf So the first thing I would do, if confronted, is explain that the term's origin is non-racist and non-prejudiced. Next I would explain that the term is not viewed in a negative light by even 10% of the population. You also should mention that most of the opposition bases its arguments on Susan Harjo, and while I wouldn't go so far as to straight up call her a liar, I would be sure to mention that the vast majority of her statements, especially concerning the origin of the term, are not substantiated by the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rypien1191 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 How is it going, for those of us who can't access? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 wow, pressure times a million. Hope we did ES proud. HTTR Thanks for allowing the thread Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I've always found it interesting that it's "racist" for our team to be called the Redskins, but there is nothing wrong with the "Fighting Irish" of Notre Dame. I would think the latter is the one that blatantly depicts a demographic in a negative light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 ESPN didn't do any favors showing clips from the 70's and 80's to represent people "mocking" Indians by dressing like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Quoted this from a post BG made....http://www.bluecorncomics.com/redskins.htm "So does Walter Wetzel, former chairman of the Blackfoot tribe and president of the National Congress of American Indians in the 1960s. By the early '60s, the Redskins had dropped any reference to Indians in their logo, uniforms and merchandise. Wetzel went to the Redskins office with photos of Indians in full headdress. "I said, 'I'd like to see an Indian on your helmets,' " which then sported a big "R" as the team logo, remembers Wetzel, now 86 and retired in Montana. Within weeks, the Redskins had a new logo, a composite Indian taken from the features in Wetzel's pictures. "It made us all so proud to have an Indian on a big-time team. . . . It's only a small group of radicals who oppose those names. Indians are proud of Indians." Snyder, meanwhile, intends to keep the name, no matter the protests. "Frankly, we don't hear much from fans about this," Swanson says. "Words take power from their usage. We don't use funny mascots. We don't have tomahawk chops. We've always used the word in a respectful way, to mean tradition, courage and respect." This I had no idea about. So we actually had one of their leaders (or is he 'the leader') request us to put the NA logo on the helmets? Very happy he requested that, and more to the point, we can't be expected every 30 - 40 years to change back and forth because someone is offended, then they want it back, then they are offended (when I say they, I mean UnWise Mike), then they want the NA logo back. That would be absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-bomb Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Setup! ESPN driven agenda, no way any one defending the name had a chance! I'm to the point now to where I don't care anymore change it to skins or whatever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Setup! ESPN driven agenda, no way any one defending the name had a chance! I'm to the point now to where I don't care anymore change it to skins or whatever! how do we see it? i'm at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Haven't seen it, but let me guess: ESPN disregards any valid points made by the other side and just says "racist, racist, racist, red and skin sounds racist because I have no understanding of it, so it must be racist." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Fantastic job, Ray. That other guy from Arlington was a total douche and didn't need to say that "Hog's Haven is the best blog, so you don't speak for me." You took the high ground and still got the correct points across and I'm proud to have you. I think most people are on one side or the other and I don't think there will be any minds changed. The only thing that can continue to make this an issue is if the hipsters jump on this as their next "cause". Thanks again. HTTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolHandLuke Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I like how Ray mentioned "Oklahoma". I didn't know it meant "Red Man". So now we have an "offensive" football team & an offensive state lol. And it's funny how these so called NA's on the show were all white except for the golf player. They seem very out of touch with their own people & history. ****ing ludicrous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-bomb Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 how do we see it? i'm at work the one guy from SOS blog site is defending the name everyone else ripping him..Dogged his site saying It's not even the #1 site of the fans for Redskins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I like how Ray mentioned "Oklahoma". I didn't know it meant "Red Man". So now we have an "offensive" football team & an offensive state lol. And it's funny how these so called NA's on the show were all white except for the golf player. They seem very out of touch with their own people & history. ****ing ludicrous! that dude from Idaho was whiter than Jasper, the farmer I buy my ghost peppers from every Saturday at the Farmers Market. "Maybe they should change the image to the potato, hahahaha". Yeah... I'll bet your mom was proud of that effort. ---------- Post added February-22nd-2013 at 03:50 PM ---------- the one guy from SOS blog site is defending the name everyone else ripping him..Dogged his site saying It's not even the #1 site of the fans for Redskins! I don't think he was ripped. I think it was pretty even. The guy who said "Hog's Haven was the best blog" was the only d-bag of the bunch. The guy from Idaho was an idiot, the golfer and Brandt were smart guys and of course Ray was civil and well versed. Go figure the only extremists that were on the show were the psychos who want the name changed. They were rude and childish. Ray did a perfect job keeping his cool even though the other two were taking childish shots at them. That won't be lost on the casual observer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakerskinz Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I like how Ray mentioned "Oklahoma". I didn't know it meant "Red Man". So now we have an "offensive" football team & an offensive state lol. And it's funny how these so called NA's on the show were all white except for the golf player. They seem very out of touch with their own people & history. ****ing ludicrous! He should of said how the city of Indianapolis means "City of Indians",or how there is a motel called Redskin Motel in Cherokee North Carolina,on a Cherokee Reservation,or how Susan Harjo has a radio show called Seeing Red!! I am 1/4 Apache and have no problems with it,even my family which are not Redskin fans or don't even like sports have no issue with the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Way to represent, Ray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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