Thoughts of a Negative Poster

[Gart Monk]

I'll give you this, you aren't wrong as often as I am, nor right as often as I am because you rarely stick your neck out to make predictions. Making predictions is what I do.

NICE! Oldfan is able to look at this team in realistic fashion, and then stick his neck out there when most of ES is consumed with rationalizing fantasy scenerios. I like to make predictions too...

August 23, 2012 8:33am

On this day, many years ago, The Dragon was born! His best moment as a Redskin is still ahead.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?330284-Happy-Birthday-Rex-Grossman!&p=9102059#post9102059

"The Dragon" must feed!

[KDawg]

Here's something for you to think about: If 90% of people think you are wrong about something, you probably are.

After you've thought about that, look at the responses to your op.

I bet if I could get 100 people on this forum to say that 2+2=5, you'd disagree with that statement.

But according to you, you'd be wrong, because you're in the minority.

[KCClybun]

Negativity isn't inherently a bad thing. Realism certainly isn't a bad thing either. It's a free country, you can feel free to express how you feel, and you shouldn't feel pressured into not doing so.

However, everyone else has the right to disagree with you. And particularly when they bring facts into any thread that directly disprove whatever negativity you're trying to bring into the fold, you should perhaps consider those facts and use them to reshape your argument----not abandon it or disown it, but simply adding facts to your argument and using those facts to become an altogether better informed and less stubborn poster---rather than sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Lalalala, I can't hear you, my thoughts are all that matters and it's not my fault you don't know how to debate correctly".

Ignoring information you do not like in the interest of a "realisitc" point of view, even when said point of view has been proven to be flawed, or in some cases just flat out wrong, does not help improve the discourse of this forum any more than blind homerism does, and in most cases leads to people on opposite sides of an issue become more deeply ingrained in their own thinking rather than using the information their given to become better informed and smarter football fans.

[BKSkinsFan]

This organization has been dealing with bad decisions, bad management, and bad luck for quite some time now. Negativity and predictions of failure aren't just insightful and realistic, it's the easy way to go when discussing our fate. So many have made a living of "being right" when it comes to predicting a typical Redskin season. So when we talk about people on here who continually post negatively about the team, lets keep in mind that it's not that they KNEW what the outcome would be because they have more football intelligence, they're simply playing the odds.

[Mania]

I wish the Ben's Chili Bowl was on the first level.

Lol

[Going Commando]

Oh, you can't be intelligent and optimistic?

Here's something for you to think about: If 90% of people think you are wrong about something, you probably are.

After you've thought about that, look at the responses to your op.

OF never said you can't be intelligent and optimistic. His post said it's equally stupid to be unrealistically negative as it is positive.

90% of people here thought Jason Taylor was a good trade.

OF isn't wrong. The board is mostly homers and a lot of them are extremely unrealistic in their expectations. The knee jerk whiners stick mostly in the game day threads, which are best avoided anyway. Foolish homerism is just as obnoxious as foolish pessimism. A thread running on for thousands of posts was started about Rob Jackson being able to make Orakpo expendable based off of one game in his five year career because homers had monster expectations for him.

[pjfootballer]

How about we put all the negativity of the last 20 years in the garbage can and start being thankful for what we have now? How about we get ready to cheer our boys on to beat Cleveland and leave Vinny, chicken lips Spurrier and Tony Banks in the rearview mirror.

This is why nobody in here is ever satisfied and why the franchis cannot escape the negativity. As hard as RG3 tries to instill some positive vibes in the franchise, we continue to get these bull**** threads about who is a better fan, who was right and who was wrong. Time to get this Haynesworth attitude from our fans the hell out of here.

Tired of the negativity. Go start your own "ExtremeNegativeSkins" website.

[Oldfan]

...However, everyone else has the right to disagree with you. And particularly when they bring facts into any thread that directly disprove whatever negativity you're trying to bring into the fold, you should perhaps consider those facts and use them to reshape your argument----

Man, you really need to learn the basics of debate. What you are doing right now is what a stalker does. You are coming into a thread and throwing out criticism that is completely irrelevant to the topic.

Your opinion of the way your opponent debates is never relevant. If you can't argue that his premises are false or that his conclusion doesn't follow from his premises, then you can't win an argument. If you can, and your opponent refuses to admit your brilliance, it doesn't matter. There are impartial minds reading these posts. They are the people to be persuaded.

[Mania]

My gut told me the McNabb deal was terrible, but I spun it in a way so that I could be happy about it. My gut was right, as were all of the people that spoke out about it when it went down.

I did the same exact thing with the McNabb trade and also the Jason Taylor trade. With the Taylor trade I could at least take my mind off the trade as I was on a Greek isles cruise:)

[Hitman21ST]

Whether or not my gut tells me a move is bad or not, I will generally try to spin it in a positive way. As an example, regarding the Jason Taylor trade - I had a feeling that it wouldn't work out, based on many of the reasons previously stated. However, we had just lost both our starting defensive ends, and were in need. Therefore, despite my realizing that it probably wouldn't work, I tried to see the silver lining. Same with McNabb.

I try to see things rationally, but then try to spin stuff into a positive.

[RandyHolt]

I respectfully suggest that balanced posts are the way to go.

Campbell Sucks!!!!!!1!

Jason Campbell is the BEST EVAR!!1!!!

Does anyone really even think twice if they see posts like that?

It's not that hard to have some balance. You can get your shot in, yet still gain some respect of those that disagree with you. They are more apt to respect your opinion, because they respect your post. Jason Campbell and his big strong arm may struggle in Zorn's quick short passing game. Portis looked like Riggo breaking through the LOS but seems to be awkwardly falling down near the ends of his runs. Al Saunders, an offensive genius, was probably foolish to unload his 800 page playbook on Jason, all at once.

I respect balanced posters far more than any other type.

[Oldfan]

I don't think you can generalize the mood of the board based on one trade.

I wasn't. But you said you thought the negativity was balanced.

Not saying of course that's how everyone should be -- just saying for me I find it more interesting. If I know someone will dig in their heels and be reflex positive or negative, for me it can get boring to have a dialogue with them.

I've spent more time discussing the Skins with you than I have with any other poster -- and for the same reason. I know you are trying to be fair and realistic. It doesn't matter that we often disagree.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 01:57 PM ----------

...I try to see things rationally, but then try to spin stuff into a positive.

Why? What's wrong with being negative, but hoping you're wrong?

[Hitman21ST]

Why? What's wrong with being negative, but hoping you're wrong?

I just try to see the silver lining. Nothing at all wrong with being negative and hoping you're wrong. I take that approach because my brother-in-law and his family are the "absurdly overly negative" fans that you were talking about, who react negatively no matter what the Skins do.

Two sides of the same coin, IMO.

[ldysknzfn1]

I don't like negativity...I do like realism..I agree w/the previous poster who said that we need more realistic or more grounded posters at times..not negative ones...I have no problem w/folks who see the glass as half full for everything....whatever helps them get thru...I'm more of the wait and see and I hope things work out for the best...this team has conditioned, over the last 20+ yrs, it's fans to lose or be prepared to lose..I still can't relax until the clock says 00:00 most of the time...let's not encourage negative..let's encourage real and grounded and pie in the sky thoughts...why not be happy?..During the game on Sunday..I texted a friend of mine celebrating something we did(he's not a skins fan) and he said "don't get too excited you haven't won yet"..I promptly told him.."I'm celebrating the moment right now..not the game..and I will celebrate when my team does something well regardless of the outcome...I was peturbed at him for suggesting I put a cap on my good feelings..negative...no thanks!

[Oldfan]

OK. State what you feel. Mammoth, groundbreaking stuff.

If my message was as obvious as you portray it, how do you explain the controversy expressed by other posters?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I have never been wrong.

EDIT: Oh wait. I was wrong that one time. So I was wrong about never being wrong. So now I've been wrong twice.

I wish you had never been wrong. We'd have won every game by 71 points.

[Oldfan]

I don't like negativity...I do like realism..I agree w/the previous poster who said that we need more realistic or more grounded posters at times..not negative ones..

Can you be more specific? What part of my conclusion do you think I should retract? Here it is again:

I write this to encourage more negative voices in this forum. I'm not referring to those who enjoy second guessing every coach's decision that fails or those who trash players beyond reason. I'm encouraging those who try very hard to be realistic and fair to speak up and be heard when you don't agree with the decisions of Redskins management. Don't worry that your opinions won't be popular with the homer crowd. Take solace in the fact that, so far in the Snyder era, the homers have been consistently wrong.

[JMUSkins]

Tone of this thread in pictures:

2005: + 2012: =

Why most people have been optimistic and cheer for the team:

[Morneblade]

Can you be more specific? What part of my conclusion do you think I should retract? Here it is again:

I write this to encourage more negative voices in this forum. I'm not referring to those who enjoy second guessing every coach's decision that fails or those who trash players beyond reason. I'm encouraging those who try very hard to be realistic and fair to speak up and be heard when you don't agree with the decisions of Redskins management. Don't worry that your opinions won't be popular with the homer crowd. Take solace in the fact that, so far in the Snyder era, the homers have been consistently wrong.

That part. Substitute "more objective/realistic voices" and it's much better.

[Oldfan]

Tone of this thread in pictures:..

Very clever. Strawman arguments made in words are boring. To create one in pictures shows some originality even if it's still a straw man.

[KCClybun]

"Being negative and hoping for the best" seems like a contradiction of terms.

Seems more often people are often negative and hope for the worst so they can say "I told you so." Why else bring up a trade from four years ago...

[JMUSkins]

Very clever. Strawman arguments made in words are boring. To create one in pictures shows some originality even if it's still a straw man.

I'm just commenting on the tone of the thread. I haven't really had much interaction with you, if any, but it does come across very self-centered and ego-driven when just taken from an outside perspective.

I welcome objective critiques of the team, but it's also okay to be a blind homer if you really love your team that much (just don't expect them to win:D).

[Oldfan]

That part. Substitute "more objective/realistic voices" and it's much better.

You can take someone's words out of context and quibble with them but I told you in the paragraph who those negative voices were. When someone disagrees with a management decision they can be said to be negative on the issue of that decision. When they are realistic and fair, there's nothing wrong with that kind of negative position.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Things you NEVER thought you'd read on ES # 5004 ..... mention of Cork City FC.

*Betting 99% of the readership have zero idea who or what Cork City are/ do. Beautiful part of the World BTW, and an utterly fantastic drinking town if you ever find yourself in Southern Ireland down Munster/ Cork way. But be prepared to check yourself in for a new liver if you intend to go pint for pint with the locals.

Haill.

[santana_4_prez]

What I can't stand is the fan who, after a loss like Carolina says, "Our season is over, we may not win another game" and then jumps all over the people like me who sit back and calculate the playoff odds and try to find a way in, or look for teams we can catch.

You can't tell me after the 2005, 2007 and (gosh I really hope) 2012 that we can't win out in any given season. You got to keep the faith, that is part of being a fan.

We've had some bad losses in those years, but I mean the Atlanta Falcons just lost to Carolina and should have gotten swept by them. It is a week to week league.