nfl guru Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Wilson is a below average player. Been a few plays where hes clearly out of position and some where he cant even stand up and get a hand on the receiver (i.e. Armon Binns td). I attribute lack of depth to the cap hits in part so hopefully Wilson is one of the first guys replaced this offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-bomb Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Wilson allowed 7 rec for 166yds 2 tds on 10 targets 1 ff....Hall allowed 5 rec 36yds on 8 targets 1 int Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Wilson allowed 7 rec for 166yds 2 tds on 10 targets 1 ff....Hall allowed 5 rec 36yds on 8 targets 1 int to be fair to Wilson both the safeties over the top screwed him on the long TD. Wilson didn't get burned, he allowed a catch in front of him off a poor readjustment when Dez cut across, and he had a good catch-up angle but decided to try and play hero and go for the INT instead of just knocking it down or allowing the catch to happen and making the tackle since we were up by so much and could allow underneath stuff. Then one safety took a horrible angle and the other was held by #17 on offense and that hold also interfered with Wilson catching back up. So Wilson wasn't burned there, like some are exaggerating with the always burned comments, but he shouldn't have gone for the INT. Most catches he allows happen in front of him because defenders shake him on cuts. That is his bad trend and he needs to work on sticking closer to his man a reading the body language so he can react better. It's more than the simplistic go-to criticism of CBs people use of "gets burned all the time," which really isn't the truth. It's a case where people just want to assign blame rather than try to actually dissect what is going on. The fact we have poor safety play in many games screws the CBs as well. Madieu was bad again, save for the 1 play of knocking the ball out of Dez's hands in the endzone. Gomes, though, seems to have stepped his game up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsInFebruary Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Sheesh, a dump-on-Josh-Wilson thread, right after beating the Girls in their house? Ok, well I think our D needs to play riskier to offset the talent deficiency, and to better complement our O. I think that's why Shanahan emphasizes turnovers with them, and there're examples of success out there with this mindset. Being up by a couple scores or more with the time left, I think Josh took a calculated risk. You could see he knew he blew it by his immediate reaction. Anyway, I think our safety play and anemic pass rush are bigger problems than JW or DHall, putting those two in more difficult positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Good point RIF. You guys notice that we had a good pass rush in the first half and we were putting Romo sits to pee in the ground, but in the 2nd half it was very noticeable that we had eased up and were playing deeper coverages because Dallas was in the position where they had to go for more big plays being behind by so much. The CBs were also playing farther off, and this along with less QB pressure allowed Dez more catches. In fact, the long TD was a gaffe by several defenders, not just Wilson. After that the next Dez TD he got away with a push off, and Wilson still played it well. I think if not for the untimely RG3 INT that let Dallas get another TD then the score doesn't get as close as it did and we don't even see this thread. I'm not blaming RG3, he's phenomenal of course, but I am pointing out that the defense was screwed on one score at the most inopportune time and therefor looked even worse. Basically Wilson isn't as bad as some are making him out to be, and in fact was fine through the first half when pressure on the QB was there and the CBs were playing up on the WRs. But, we were exposed when we let up, and maybe we should have waited longer to let up, but you do have to to prevent the quick score teams are desperately trying for at that point, and the long Dez one was a screw up that was the fault of several players not just Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8181 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Josh Wilson is not that great, but let's not get blinded like in the past... The PASS RUSH makes the Secondary not the other way around. While we are lackign good corners, our bigger need is a pass rush..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsInFebruary Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Josh Wilson? Oh, you mean this guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Damn, I should have worn a Josh Wilson mask for Halloween. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 um. I really think many of you just want to hate on "insert member of defense not named kerrigan" and will jump on board no matter what. we already saw an example of a guy misplacing wilson to the dez play late. It wasn't even him lol. I like him, he seems to play well. He's healthy. He'f forced 3 fumbles, about 50 tackles...and 'getting burnt' is a relative term now. He get's 'burnt' every time? Really? Well how many snaps has he played, why hasn't he allowed dozens and dozens of touchdowns lol. Does 'burnt' mean an elite receiver caught a ball right over you? If it never happened, there would be no elite WRs. You can't just watch plays on TV, (when sometimes Wilson isn't even in the screen) and determine he sucks, or 'doesn't turn his head around enough' or whatever. He makes tackles, he knocks the ball loose. You have to look at body of work, and he was pretty damn good last year. He doesn't do it all, I'd say. I mean, DHall has a nice knack for blowing up screens, I haven't seen as much of that from wilson... stuff like that. He doesn't 'get burnt' constantly, he isn't terrible, and most importantly, tell me who to replace him with and where we get that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Josh had perfect coverage on that last Dez Bryant TD. As much as it pains me to say this: Romo sits to pee made an awesome pass and Dez made an awesome catch. Not even D. Green could have stopped that. on fourth a four thats horrible coverage. Any DB with sense would'vbe been all on top of that route. Why? Because its 4th down,you know they have to throw it up, and you know they will throw it up with the game on the line. This is when a intelligent db would have played all out agressive !! Play the ball,jump the route even if your man is not even the wr being targeted because its 4th down with the game on the line you have to know the situation and just be agressive alll of the cards were on our side. It was damn near like checking a Hail mary pass,you know thatr they have to throw it up,there is no room for error for Dallas to make in that situation. They can't throw it away,He can't hold on to the ball due to the pressure, and if he doesn't just throw the ball up for grabs the game ends there.So everyone in the building should've known that he would throw it up anyway:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 on fourth a four thats horrible coverage. Any DB with sense would'vbe been all on top of that route. Except it was Dez Bryant, who is talented, and it took an incredible catch from a great throw for the TD to happen, AND Dez got away with pushing off. You're exactly the type of poster Jumbo was talking about earlier in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSkins Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Except it was Dez Bryant, who is talented, and it took an incredible catch from a great throw for the TD to happen, AND Dez got away with pushing off. You're exactly the type of poster Jumbo was talking about earlier in this thread. I saw that and thought, "gambled and lost." It happens all the time with corners. Less disappointing than Josh's bad luck on plain whiffing because of the throw is Dez taking it to the house. Lots of gambles don't go for touchdowns though, because there's often someone to make the tackle. Bryant a hell of a player with great vision and speed, so big plays are going to happen with him. If Madieu didn't save his other potential touchdown I would have been way more disappointed in that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Hog Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Dud just does not know how to turn his head until it's too late, and then protests to the nearest ref every time he get's burned. Hope he can fix his coverage issues, but not very confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Threads like these are the reason I rarely frequent this board anymore. Josh Wilson is fine, and will be a starter here next year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Except it was Dez Bryant, who is talented, and it took an incredible catch from a great throw for the TD to happen, AND Dez got away with pushing off. You're exactly the type of poster Jumbo was talking about earlier in this thread. I hear you bro,and I you make great points. Im just saying though... I played DB in college (UCONN) and the first thing they teach you is Theory. Meaning you have to know your situation. It's fourth down and basically is win or bust for the Cowardboys. Now in defensive theory every single player in coverage should have been expecting the ball to come their way. It didn't matter what side of the field you are on, or who you were checking, you expect the ball to come to you! It is the last play of the game at this point for the Coward boys. If you know that situation, you should play very aggressive! I know Dez is great and Romo sits to pee threw a decent ball, but If you study that play again you'll see that Dez barley made that catch. He almost let it touch the ground,and had he been a Redskin they would've ruled that the ball touch the ground. Now Had Josh had been using theory he would've attacked the ball and probably would have made Dez drop the ball. I mean as simple as grabbing his arm,even a tip of the ball would have been enough to disrupt Dez's td catch. I agree with you and the others he was in position to make the play, (good coverage) but my point of him being horrible in that situation is the fact that he wasn't expecting Romo sits to pee to throw the ball because he had good coverage. Smh, He forgot it was the very last play that the Boys had. He should have been playing with the mindset that its a "hail mary" pass attempt. Anyway, I here what you are saying and I agree I just saying though he should've expected the ball to be thrown,and that goes for everyone in coverage on that play #HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket442Olds Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I hear you bro,and I you make great points. Im just saying though... I played DB in college (UCONN) and the first thing they teach you is Theory. Meaning you have to know your situation. It's fourth down and basically is win or bust for the Cowardboys. Now in defensive theory every single player in coverage should have been expecting the ball to come their way. It didn't matter what side of the field you are on, or who you were checking, you expect the ball to come to you! It is the last play of the game at this point for the Coward boys. If you know that situation, you should play very aggressive! I know Dez is great and Romo sits to pee threw a decent ball, but If you study that play again you'll see that Dez barley made that catch. He almost let it touch the ground,and had he been a Redskin they would've ruled that the ball touch the ground. Now Had Josh had been using theory he would've attacked the ball and probably would have made Dez drop the ball. I mean as simple as grabbing his arm,even a tip of the ball would have been enough to disrupt Dez's td catch. I agree with you and the others he was in position to make the play, (good coverage) but my point of him being horrible in that situation is the fact that he wasn't expecting Romo sits to pee to throw the ball because he had good coverage. Smh, He forgot it was the very last play that the Boys had. He should have been playing with the mindset that its a "hail mary" pass attempt. Anyway, I here what you are saying and I agree I just saying though he should've expected the ball to be thrown,and that goes for everyone in coverage on that play #HTTR Well then, I guess you should've been drafted above, and be higher on an NFL teams depth chart that Wilson. It cracks me up when people automatically assume a corner should be able to cover a top flight NFL Wide Receiver who has 5+ inches and 40 lbs on them, every down, every game. He played tight coverage, but got beat off the break when Dez was interlocked with him. Its not something you can automatically say a bit of a theory class is going to fix, and the simplify it that much misses the point entirely. Wilson has had some good plays this year, and some that he got beat on. He isn't bad, and hes definitely better than Griffin who is behind him. I'm pretty sure there are bigger issues than him on our defense. He gambled on the attempted break up on the Dez 80 yard TD, which in hindsight was a bad move but he was really close to getting his hand on that ball as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 He forgot it was the very last play that the Boys had. He should have been playing with the mindset that its a "hail mary" pass attempt. Anyway, I here what you are saying and I agree I just saying though he should've expected the ball to be thrown,and that goes for everyone in coverage on that play #HTTR I don't think speculating what Wilson was thinking or expecting is really helping the discussion. Maybe he was thinking "I'm covering their best WR so it's probably coming my way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Well then, I guess you should've been drafted above, and be higher on an NFL teams depth chart that Wilson. It cracks me up when people automatically assume a corner should be able to cover a top flight NFL Wide Receiver who has 5+ inches and 40 lbs on them, every down, every game. Wilson has had some good plays this year, and some that he got beat on. He isn't bad, and hes definitely better than Griffin who is behind him. I'm pretty sure there are bigger issues than him on our defense. He gambled on the attempted break up on the Dez 80 yard TD, which in hindsight was a bad move but he was really close to getting his hand on that ball as well. So based of your logic cause I played in college and you didn't means you can't prove me to be incorrect too right? LOL.. I never said I was better than him,but you can see that Josh believed that because he had GOOD coverage he didn't expect Romo sits to pee to pass the ball at all??? WTF, it was the last play of the game for them. Meaning Romo sits to pee had to throw it up in the air for grabs anyway. Josh didn't even expect him to throw it was my point,but Hey Im sorry that you never had any college training in sports but Im sure you probably know of someone who played. Asked them about the defensive theory on that play. Oh,by the Way..I would be in the NFL but I lacked the pure talent. I was undersized a 5'7" and ran a 4.7 forty time what pro scout is even going to give that DB a look? My best skill set was Game Intelligence! I lead my team in INT's and was the top corner based on pure smarts of the game. I was a know it all on the field and it help me to play in college for 4 years,It has helped me to play on espn tv. Now even with my height had I had Banks speed you would be looking at me playing in the NFL . Hell,I tried out for the Skins too. Let me tell you some of those guys are not as good as you think they are,but because they are so athletic,coaches believe they will turn them into gems with their help. Sports politics man. If you are 6'2" and run a 4.3 forty time how many people are going to pass you up? I played in the CFl and currently make my living off of that,Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Last season, Josh Wilson was one of the best corners in the league according to Football Outsiders. That, along with how hampered we were this offseason (as Jumbo has mentioned and as has been mentioned about a billion times) is enough for me to assume his play isn't a regression, but more of a side effect of an overall weakened secondary. When teams pass as much as teams do against us because they can it's just going to make you look bad at times. We need to remind ourselves of Sean Taylor's play in 2006. Great players can have bad seasons, to little fault of their own. Football is too much a team sport.Furthermore, Dez has been embarrassing opposing DBs the last few weeks. He's clearly on a roll. Josh Wilson was brought in to be our no. 2 CB, but he's essentially on the no. 1 WR of opposing teams every play because of that cap penalty. I'd second these remarks.Wilson is not the savior of the Skins secondary, nor is he the problem. I thought he was a good signing. And the fact that we're criticizing his play when he could be on the inactive list with a bad shoulder--- well, that kind of bothers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket442Olds Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 So based of your logic cause I played in college and you didn't means you can't prove me to be incorrect too right? LOL.. I never said I was better than him,but you can see that Josh believed that because he had GOOD coverage he didn't expect Romo sits to pee to pass the ball at all??? WTF, it was the last play of the game for them. Meaning Romo sits to pee had to throw it up in the air for grabs anyway. Josh didn't even expect him to throw it was my point,but Hey Im sorry that you never had any college training in sports but Im sure you probably know of someone who played. Asked them about the defensive theory on that play. Oh,by the Way..I would be in the NFL but I lacked the pure talent. I was undersized a 5'7" and ran a 4.7 forty time what pro scout is even going to give that DB a look? My best skill set was Game Intelligence! I lead my team in INT's and was the top corner based on pure smarts of the game. I was a know it all on the field and it help me to play in college for 4 years,It has helped me to play on espn tv. Now even with my height had I had Banks speed you would be looking at me playing in the NFL . Hell,I tried out for the Skins too. Let me tell you some of those guys are not as good as you think they are,but because they are so athletic,coaches believe they will turn them into gems with their help. Sports politics man. If you are 6'2" and run a 4.3 forty time how many people are going to pass you up? I played in the CFl and currently make my living off of that,Hail Wow, I see you're quite modest. You aren't exactly aware of my history but either way I'm not going to say I was destined for the NFL if I was just a bit faster, stronger, etc... Flutie didn't sit around and ***** about not being tall enough for the NFL, Reed Doughty didn't use being deaf as an excuse, on top of being slower than an average NFL Safety. My point isn't that you're wrong because you didn't make it. It is that just because he didn't win that one-on-one, doesn't mean he doesn't understand the theory of the game. I'm willing to bet he understands the theory of the game, and plays pretty well, especially in comparison to the rest of our defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 What "scares" me is how many times he's had neck and shoulder injuries because he continues to put his headfirst to make tackles. He does it on purpose to put his "facemask" on the ball and jar it loose. It does tend to work but it is a scary technique and one that gets many players, young and professional, injured. It should be done the right way like Hall attacks the wrists and ball. I was happy to see him force the fumble but he's had some scary neck injuries in the past that ended up looking worse than they were but he was pretty fortunate in those instances... We need to stop harping so much on these players right now though. Bottom line, we are what we are now. Everyone here is well aware that our secondary is a huge weakness. Williams did knock that ball loose but had another terrible overall game, including the worst angle I've ever seen on Dez's catch and run earlier. Josh Wilson is probably not a starter in most places across the league, indeed I don't think he was a long term starter before coming here. Hall may or may not still be starting caliber (although I actually really like what he brings to the table for our D). These are things we all know. Bottom line though, we know it's not getting any better this year. We had hope for Meriweather and he showed that hope was for good reason, but that one is over too. We have the guys we have but so far this second half of the season, we've been a different "team." I guess at this point we know what to expect this year from each of our guys, but I'm in full positivity mode right now and am completely behind all of them for this last 5 game push. Thankfully the one guy we have gotten back is Garcon because he was a huge jolt yesterday and looked most of the way back. That catch and run was a thing of beauty. Does our secondary as a whole still scare me? Absolutely, but our defense also got back to their ways of forcing turnovers the last couple games and the team seems to have admitted to itself what it is, and played to its strengths and with confidence. In my opinion our secondary has gotten much better and so has our defense the last couple weeks. We nailed it down and were dominating the Cowboys on defense in the first half - we gave up yards but pestered Romo sits to pee into mistakes and took the ball away. His overall stats were inflated because we forced them to abandon the run game. My main problem with our defense yesterday was not the secondary - they are who they are. It was the fact that our defense knew they abandoned the passing game and we still could not generate much pass rush. Those guys need to step their game up a little bit. But I love my Redskins and I'm PUMPED for these last 5 games. GO PACKERS on Sunday!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Wow, I see you're quite modest. You aren't exactly aware of my history but either way I'm not going to say I was destined for the NFL if I was just a bit faster, stronger, etc... Flutie didn't sit around and ***** about not being tall enough for the NFL, Reed Doughty didn't use being deaf as an excuse, on top of being slower than an average NFL Safety.My point isn't that you're wrong because you didn't make it. It is that just because he didn't win that one-on-one, doesn't mean he doesn't understand the theory of the game. I'm willing to bet he understands the theory of the game, and plays pretty well, especially in comparison to the rest of our defense. Nor did I say "understand Theory of the game" I said on that PLAY he didn't use correct defensive theory on "that play" It's not even my opinion, it's a fact. Im sure Morris will remind him of that in film study. I bet if we are in thart situation agian you'll see Josh being a bit more aware. He did'nt expect the ball on fourth and four where the other team has to THROW the ball up iin the air for grabs anyway. My point about Josh was that he played that play as if it was just a normal game situation. He played like hey I got good coverage so he's not going to risk that pass. When A., It's Tony Romo sits to pee so you should expect him to throw it up even when not in that situation. B, Its the end of the game? Even Mister conservative Jason Campbell would have had to throw the ball up in the air it's general sports logic is my point. Not saying he's a bum just saying he made a mental error on that play that ruined his great coverage on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 He's probably our most effective corner but he was booted out of Baltimore due to his ability to get beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Wilson is awful. Dez had that other ball caught in the end zone as well until Madieu saved the day by knocking it out. I don't know the numbers but from where I was sitting it seemed like 3/4 of Romo sits to pee's 4 hunderd and some odd yards were against Wilson. At this point, why anyone would even bother to run against us is beyond me. People, he may smack his momma, basically steal jewelry (until he paid off his balance) and get kicked out of malls like a kid in Jr. High School, but Dez is one hell of an athlete/WR. The dudes size (I know he's only 6'2", but thats pretty tall) and speed are top notch, this cannot be ignored. He has the ability to be one of the best WR in the game, but does get lost a lot from what I've seen. I hate him and the Cowboys as much as anyone, but he's a really good player with the ability to be great, thats just the facts. At least we have RGIII, who cares about Bryant burning us for 145 yds and 2 TDs? Last time I checked, we beat that ass and won the game. End of story Point being, even with Wilson covering Dez and him having a career day receiving, we still beat that ass and won the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doghouse4x4 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Josh didn't even expect him to throw it was my point,but Hey Im sorry that you never had any college training in sports but Im sure you probably know of someone who played. Asked them about the defensive theory on that play. I was a college DB, and I can tell you you are wrong about this play. I played on the strength of my mind as well, I'm 5'10" a weak 180 and ran a 4.5, which isn't nearly good enough for rely on talent. Wilson did play it correctly, doesn't change Bryant had position, pushed off, and the ball was delivered where only he could catch it. Wilson could never fight over the top of a push off from a guy a strong as Bryant, period. Anyway, Wilson is average, nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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