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2012 Rookie QB Discussion

darrelgreenie

By darrelgreenie
in Around the NFL

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

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I think Tannehill has played much better than anyone has expected, but I don't think he's played better than Robert to this point. Some weeks I've thought Tannehill has looked better than Luck has.
In all honesty I thought Tannehill would play this well. I don't think any rookie QB has had a better passing game then Tannehill had last 2 weeks ago.

I actually think Tannehill is a little ahead of Griffin as a passer, but I think Griffin has a greater impact on the game as QB because of the combination of his running and passing.

In fact I don't think there are very many QBs in the NFL that mean more to their offense and team then Griffin.

As someone who was pretty high on Tannehill, I'd still say trading up for Robert was the right move. Moving up ensured that we would get the quarterback we wanted; even though Stephen Ross is a friggin' moron, there was no guarantee that he wouldn't have traded up over us to get Tannehill (to avoid the riot that would'v ensued had he drafted just about anyone else), and Mike would've settled for a guy he merely liked instead of gotten the player he loved, if he ever really wanted Tannehill at all.
That's a good point, pre-draft there was even speculation that Tannehill was in play for the Browns too.

The trade up for Griffin puts me in a football quandry. Because I love him as prospect, I love him even more now that I've seen him in action. But, if i'm being completely football honest I have to admit that acquiring him limits our ability to build around him. But, I think he's so freakin talented that its gonna be a joy to watch while he leads us to a championship even if it takes as long to build around him as it took the Elway Broncos.

Going Tannehill also probably would've meant going with Rex as the starter for at least the start of the season, and either Beck would still be hanging around with his sucky self, or we'd have to go out and get another veteran.
Because of the link between the Shanahan's and Mike Sherman I think Tannehill would come in with a good enough understanding of the offense that he would be in consideration to start.

He might even be further along in the base offense then Griffin.

---------- Post added October-11th-2012 at 07:33 PM ----------

I rather have Griffin over Tannehill and others. Griffin has the tools to be a top 3 QB in this league. Tannehill doesn't. There is a vast difference between Top 5 and top 15 Qb that Tannehill might become.
To me Griffin and Tannehill have a very similar skillset, I'm curious what makes you project Griffin as a top 5 QB and Tannehill as a top 15 other then Griffin plays for us?
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WALEOVECHKIN

WALEOVECHKIN

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Update after today:

Luck 118/221 53.4% 1488 yds 8 total Tds (7 passing) 7 Ints 3 fumbles (2 lost) 72.0 Rating

Griffin 113/161 70.2% 1343 yds 11 total Tds (5 passing) 2 Ints 6 fumbles (1 lost) 100.5 rating

Tannehill 118/198 59.6% 1454 yds 5 total tds (4 passing) 6 Ints 3 fumbles (1 lost) 76.5 rating

Weeden 129/231 55.8% 1519 yds 7 total tds (7 passing) 10 Ints 2 fumbles (0 lost) 68.1 rating

Wilson 95/152 62.5% 1108 yds 8 total tds (8 passing) 6 Ints 2 fumbles (2 lost) 85.6 rating

Luck had his worst game of the season today and Griffin had his best. Wilson's #s are very good, Weeden has been getting better and Tannehill's QB rating has gone up the last 4 weeks.

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Destino

Destino

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Well to be fair, the Colts have Reggie Wayne, Donnie Avery, and who? Can't blame it all on the QB.

And the redskins leading pass catchers are Davis, Moss, and Hankerson. Remember them? Yeah same guys from last year before we brought in upgrades. QBs makes receivers more than the other way around.

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MrSilverMaC

MrSilverMaC

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http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/49295/add-tannehills-name-with-luck-rg3

I think this writer is purposely picking and choosing what he sees from one qb to the next to compare, however I think its fair to discuss tannehill in the same sentence with Griffin and Luck, but not to declare him on Griffin's level, after the success he's had.

Perhaps Wilson needs a little more love after todays win as well.

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

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Andrew Luck's and RG3's completion percentages are the biggest surprises IMO. I don't think people expected Luck's to be so low or Griffins to be so high.
I agree.

I thought Luck would have the edge in terms of completion percentage because of his familiarity in pro-style offenses.

But, it should be noted that Griffin is fair more managed in our system then Luck and throws more high percentage completions i.e. screens, play action/run action passes. Griffin's dynamic running ability allows Kyle to manage him with playcalling while at same time producing a dynamic scoring offense. Arians is taking the wide open approach w/ more straight 3-5-7 drop backs passing.

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No_Pressure

No_Pressure

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He's got Wayne, Avery, Fleener and Allen to throw to. It's not like he's out there by himself.

He has a terrible offensive line, a non-existent running game, and most of their games he's playing while down 20 points because their defense is so awful. I'm actually surprised he's doing as well as he is considering that he's on a team which is basically as good as one of those Doug Williams/Steve Young Buccaneers teams.

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

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He has a terrible offensive line, a non-existent running game, and most of their games he's playing while down 20 points because their defense is so awful. I'm actually surprised he's doing as well as he is considering that he's on a team which is basically as good as one of those Doug Williams/Steve Young Buccaneers teams.
Our OL is not much better then their OL, if at all.

Their offense is their running game's own worst enemy. Luck has a better set of weapons in the passing then most any other rookie QB, to start he has a true #1 WR.

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No_Pressure

No_Pressure

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Our OL is not much better then their OL, if at all.

Their offense is their running game's own worst enemy. Luck has a better set of weapons in the passing then most any other rookie QB, to start he has a true #1 WR.

Our OL is better which is scary because ours isn't great either. Their defense is still even worse than ours- even if we rank lower in yardage I guarantee they let up more points than we do.

Lets look at their games and regardless of the final score, see where they are at halftime:

Chicago: Losing 24-14 at halftime

Minnesota: Up 17-6 (won the game)

Jacksonvile: Up 14-3 (Lost the game)

Packers: Down 21-3 (Won the game)

Jets: Down 21-6 (Lost)

Sure they were up on Minnesota and Jacksonville, but still the majority of their games this season they have been playing with a substantial deficit. Andrew Luck has been playing much more come from behind football than Griffin has had to, partially from his mistakes in the 1st half, sure, but mainly because of Indy's horrendous defense.

The only game which we haven't led at the half this season was the Cincinnati game. It helps. The guy is a good qb, its alright to admit that. RG3 is amazing and he has much more help from the rest of his team. Its okay to admit that as well.

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

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Our OL is better which is scary because ours isn't great either. Their defense is still even worse than ours- even if we rank lower in yardage I guarantee they let up more points than we do.
RGIII makes our OL look better then they are.

I didn't argue anything about the Colts defense.

Sure they were up on Minnesota and Jacksonville, but still the majority of their games this season they have been playing with a substantial deficit. Andrew Luck has been playing much more come from behind football than Griffin has had to, partially from his mistakes in the 1st half, sure, but mainly because of Indy's horrendous defense.
You contradict your own point.

(1) They haven't always been down at half-time (2) The times they have been down are partially due to Luck's own mistakes.

The guy is a good qb, its alright to admit that. RG3 is amazing and he has much more help from the rest of his team. Its okay to admit that as well.
Where have I said Luck isn't a good QB?

Its okay to admit that a receiving corps that includes Reggie Wayne a true #1 WR, 2 of the top TE's in the draft (one who played with Luck in college), and a young group of WRs Avery, TY Hilton, Brazil is a better group then Weeden, Wilson, Tannehill and one could argue our own.

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SkinsFTW

SkinsFTW

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Our OL is better which is scary because ours isn't great either. Their defense is still even worse than ours- even if we rank lower in yardage I guarantee they let up more points than we do.

Lets look at their games and regardless of the final score, see where they are at halftime:

Who cares what the score is at halftime? The fact is our defense has given up 29 points a game on average just like theirs has. Their defense is giving up 359 yards a game while ours is giving up 417 a game. Our defense is giving up 100 more passing yards than an average middle of the road defense per game.

The difference is we have 13 takeaways and the Colts have 3 but their defense is actually better besides the turnovers. If we fail to get 1-2 turnovers then we'll probably see our defense give up 35+ points and 500 yards.

We could be up by 21 points in the late 3rd quarter next week vs the Giants and I'd fully expect Eli Manning to bring the Giants back in the 4th quarter without breaking a sweat. Our defense can't stop anybody when it needs to.

For instance, the Rams have the 27th ranked passing offense and 16th ranked rushing offense. If they had played us every week and had the same results they'd have the #3 passing offense and #5 rushing offense. The Bucs have the 25th ranked passing offense but they'd be #3 if they played us every week. The Vikings are ranked 18th in passing, but they'd be 1st playing us every week. Bengals are ranked 8th passing but would be by far #1 if they played the Redskins every week. We make every offense in the league look better. The Giants are currently ranked 4th in passing so expect Eli to easily throw for 400 yards next week. Our only chance is if we get 2-3 picks and a fumble recovery or 2.

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No_Pressure

No_Pressure

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Where have I said Luck isn't a good QB?

Its okay to admit that a receiving corps that includes Reggie Wayne a true #1 WR, 2 of the top TE's in the draft (one who played with Luck in college), and a young group of WRs Avery, TY Hilton, Brazil is a better group then Weeden, Wilson, Tannehill and one could argue our own.

When I make a post saying he has crap for a supporting cast and you say that he happens to have one great wide receiver, talk up their horrible offensive line and not even address how horrible their defense is, it sounds like you're trying to say that he does have plenty of help, perhaps just as much as RG3 does and the implication is that Luck isn't as good as our guy. He hasn't been which nobody can argue, but we can't pretend he's done less with the same support and opportunities. We've also had pretty good help from our receiving corps.

Who cares what the score is at halftime? The fact is our defense has given up 29 points a game on average just like theirs has. Their defense is giving up 359 yards a game while ours is giving up 417 a game. Our defense is giving up 100 more passing yards than an average middle of the road defense per game.

If you're a rookie quarterback playing more than half of your games with a massive deficit at halftime, you're going to face much different challenges than someone who isn't. Luck has been facing large deficits sometimes as a combination of the offense's shortcomings but I've watched the Colts a lot this year and their defense is getting rolled 24/7. I know everyone thinks our D is totally horrible, and they've been pretty bad, but they collapse late and the Colts collapse early which contributes to a constant uphill battle for them. Their running game is non-existant. They have nothing. It isn't a lack of good playcalling, they just have a horrible line and worthless backs. We're #2 in the league in rushing and we all know that isn't 100% RG3. The Colts are 26th and Luck accounts for a little more than a third of their rushing yards this season and half of their touchdowns.

Again, RG3 is amazing. Luck is a good QB and he has a ****tier team around him, or are we going to argue that we're just a ****ty as the Colts and the only difference is that we drafted the right QB? Because that's what I think everybody wants to be able to say. Other Redskins' fans I know want Luck to look bad and to not succeed because they want to say "Ha" and that we were right. I get that impression from people who want to argue that Luck isn't doing so well but it isn't because the Colts team as a whole is horrendous. Did I mention his head coach is being treated for cancer? I could swear I did. They're both talented young quarterbacks, and RG3 is in a better situation and is more than making the most of it right now. That doesn't mean we have to poop on every other rookie QB out there.

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G.A.C.O.L.B.

G.A.C.O.L.B.

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http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/49295/add-tannehills-name-with-luck-rg3

I think this writer is purposely picking and choosing what he sees from one qb to the next to compare, however I think its fair to discuss tannehill in the same sentence with Griffin and Luck, but not to declare him on Griffin's level, after the success he's had.

Perhaps Wilson needs a little more love after todays win as well.

Agree on Wilson getting love. As i've said before, I think we finally have a QB class that rivals '83. And I still think Weedon is the dumbest 1st round pick inn history (lol @Cleveland p, but even he's playing well.

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MrSilverMaC

MrSilverMaC

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Well Weeden is a lock to bust out. By the time Cleveland puts a team around him, he'll be on his last legs and close to retirement.

I wouldn't laugh at the thought of cleveland being the team to pick the bust qb of the bunch if it weren't for holmgren acting like a douche about Griffin. They could've had every qb in the draft not named Luck but either didn't have the balls to get the trade done or weren't smart enough to pick em.

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G.A.C.O.L.B.

G.A.C.O.L.B.

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I wouldn't laugh at the thought of cleveland being the team to pick the bust qb of the bunch if it weren't for holmgren acting like a douche about Griffin. They could've had every qb in the draft not named Luck but either didn't have the balls to get the trade done or weren't smart enough to pick em.

I'll always laugh at Cleveland failing.

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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I guess I don't get why they passed on Tannehill. I mean, he was going to need seasoning that maybe someone else wouldn't but he'd still be 24-25 by the time that happened, whereas Weeden is going to be 35 :P

Why not just pick Tannehill and see what a really athletic player with some good skills could do?

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