Is it ethical to teach your children that people who do not believe in God are going to Hell?

[GibbsFactor]

In each case, there is something other than Baptism going on.

Repent, calling on his name, and appealing to God for a clear conscience.

In none of the cases, do they suggest that the event will carry forward to future sins.

I dunno, the Nicene Creed seems to say that we believe in one baptism for the remission of all sins.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Acts 2:38, “And Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.’”

"And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16).

"Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:21).

These were all in connection to also being saved/accepting Christ, not just the baptism itself:

"Repent and be baptized..."

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you...through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. "

"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

[PeterMP]

Teaching children that there is some really extra special bad ephemeral thing that could happen if they don't behave a certain way is unethical. Going to Hell is the really extra special bad ephemeral thing to which I am referring. Hell is a mythical concept that relies on faith alone and not any kind of empirical data. So teaching Going to Hell is something that they can't even get their minds around, and thus ultimate fear is born in this child. Teaching real life consequences for bad behavior is much more ethical and something that a child can deal with, not some abstract thing that may or may not exist.

I think that Hell may just exist right here on Earth, at least for some people it does.

There is some probability that Hell exist.

There is some probability that somebody will be abducted by a stranger.

There is essentially no behavior that will absolutly produce some result.

At what probability do we start teaching kids the consequences of the behavior? How do you communicate probabilities to a young kid?

---------- Post added June-7th-2012 at 11:03 AM ----------

I dunno, the Nicene Creed seems to say that we believe in one baptism for the remission of all sins.

It also starts with:

"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible."

I don't see where it states that you can believe in part Y and not part Z.

[GibbsFactor]

There is some probability that Hell exist.

There is some probability that somebody will be abducted by a stranger.

There is essentially no behavior that will absolutly produce some result.

At what probability do we start teaching kids the consequences of the behavior? How do you communicate probabilities to a young kid?

---------- Post added June-7th-2012 at 11:03 AM ----------

It also starts with:

"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible."

I don't see where it states that you can believe in part Y and not part Z.

If not believing is a sin, and baptism is done for the remission of sins...

[General NSJ]

This thread reminds me of a line from a Common song, Gaining One's Definition (GOD):

"As a child, given religion with no answer to why. Just told believe in Jesus, cause for me he did die."

I voted that it is unethical, but I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in any of it. Seems to me that telling a child that those that don't believe will go to Hell, is a scare tactic and shouldn't be used as an incentive for belief.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Is it ever ethical to give this as a response to a kid?...

[LadySkinsFan]

That's frustration talking, Califan007, and I've said it myself after promising myself I'd never say it to my child after hearing it myself as a child.

[AsburySkinsFan]

These were all in connection to also being saved/accepting Christ, not just the baptism itself:

"Repent and be baptized..."

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you...through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. "

I may be misreading your position.....if so then I'm sorry.

So Jesus was lying when he told the thief on the cross, "today you will be with me in paradise"?

And Paul was lying when he said, Romans 10:9-10 because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Born of water does not mean baptism here, born of water is natural birth...hence "my water broke", we must be born "anothen" which means "from above" or "again" this is the Spirit birth Jesus was talking about.

[Destino]

Yeah you could take it much further and call that ethical. Many people do just that.

Perhaps, but I didn't. I gave you what I think is the most straightforward answer to your question. If hell exists it would be ethical to teach children about it and unethical to do otherwise. The entire question hinges on the existence of hell. Is this not true in your opinion? The real issue comes with what those kids are taught in terms of how to treat people that believe differently than they do. It is one thing to think a belief or action wrong, it is another to treat a person poorly because of this disagreement.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

That's frustration talking, Califan007, and I've said it myself after promising myself I'd never say it to my child after hearing it myself as a child.

Frustration, yep lol :yes:...but it can also be said that "Because I said so" serves its beneficial purposes when steering very young children away from things that may cause harm. Explanations may not always be interpreted and perceived by a young child in the manner we want them to be..."Because I said so" almost always does, though ...

I may be misreading your position.....if so then I'm sorry.

From what you asked, I do think you got my position wrong lol...

My position was simply that it's not quite accurate to claim that baptism without faith will do the trick...it's the conversion of the heart and spirit, not the baptism.

---------- Post added June-7th-2012 at 08:41 AM ----------

Perhaps, but I didn't. I gave you what I think is the most straightforward answer to your question. If hell exists it would be ethical to teach children about it and unethical to do otherwise. The entire question hinges on the existence of hell. Is this not true in your opinion? The real issue comes with what those kids are taught in terms of how to treat people that believe differently than they do. It is one thing to think a belief or action wrong, it is another to treat a person poorly because of this disagreement.

What he said :yes:...

[AsburySkinsFan]

From what you asked, I do think you got my position wrong lol...

My position was simply that it's not quite accurate to claim that baptism without faith will do the trick...it's the conversion of the heart and spirit, not the baptism.

Ahhh ok, my bad...I'm going back and forth between the two threads and I thought you were saying something different. Sorry.

---------- Post added June-7th-2012 at 11:46 AM ----------

Perhaps, but I didn't. I gave you what I think is the most straightforward answer to your question. If hell exists it would be ethical to teach children about it and unethical to do otherwise. The entire question hinges on the existence of hell. Is this not true in your opinion? The real issue comes with what those kids are taught in terms of how to treat people that believe differently than they do. It is one thing to think a belief or action wrong, it is another to treat a person poorly because of this disagreement.

Center square for the win!!

[Koolblue13]

My sister has brought her daughter up without ever lying to her. No Santa, No tooth fairy, no god. She told her it's her choice to figure out what she believes as an adult. She's celebrated Christian holidays as well as a few Jewish ones and at 11 has had some amazing conversations. Although she is free to believe what she wants, she tends to accept my sisters mostly wiccan train of thought.

[Corcaigh]

Although she is free to believe what she wants, she tends to accept my sisters mostly wiccan train of thought.

Hopefully she will develop critical thinking skills before too much longer. :evilg:

[Koolblue13]

Hopefully she will develop critical thinking skills before too much longer. :evilg:

Very funny, but I would say despite no being a religion, it makes a lot more factual sense than any of them.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Very funny, but I would say despite no being a religion, it makes a lot more factual sense than any of them.

Does that mean it requires less faith?

[JMS]

My sister has brought her daughter up without ever lying to her. No Santa, No tooth fairy, no god. She told her it's her choice to figure out what she believes as an adult. She's celebrated Christian holidays as well as a few Jewish ones and at 11 has had some amazing conversations. Although she is free to believe what she wants, she tends to accept my sisters mostly wiccan train of thought.

So the wiccan beliefs in the supernatural etc are "truth" , while the christian beliefs are lies. That's why ethics are so subjective, because it's tied to morality, and morality is tied to a personal belief or understanding rather than a collective one.

[Koolblue13]

So the wiccan beliefs in the supernatural etc are "truth" , while the christian beliefs are lies. that's why ethics are so subjective.

What super natural? She isn't a freaking witch, that's absurd. She is just thankful for seasons, what the Earth provides and happy the sun comes up every morning.

[HeluCopter29]

I don't see an issue with telling your child that "I belive this" or "I believe that." I also have no problem with trying to immerse your kid in your own beliefs by doing this such as going to church on Sunday or celebrating various holidays. I don't particularly care for parents who teach their beliefs as fact and don't give room for the children develop their own beliefs or dabble in other religions.

[PokerPacker]

I find it wrong to teach kids that other people are beneath them. Be it because they have different beliefs, opinions, or financial status.

[Corcaigh]

Very funny, but I would say despite no being a religion, it makes a lot more factual sense than any of them.

That's a pretty low standard for measuring its worth.

[Koolblue13]

That's a pretty low standard for measuring its worth.

That's fair

And funny too!

[Botched]

OK, so apparently I've been confusing the definitions of wrong and unethical.

A couple years ago, there was that story of a husband and wife who refused medical help for their dying child. They knew God would take care of everything. They truly believed they were doing the right thing. I would have thought unethical would be a good way to describe what they were doing.

But what I'm hearing in this thread, is that if you believe what you're doing is right, it's ethical.

So were those parents behaving ethically or not?

[DCsportsfan53]

I find it wrong to teach kids that other people are beneath them. Be it because they have different beliefs, opinions, or financial status.

I agree with this. As a Jew I was told by peers many times, from as early in life as 5 years old, that I was going to hell if I didn't accept Jesus Christ as my lord and saviour. It's a little disconcerting for a youngster to hear and personally, I couldn't understand raising my child in such a narrow minded, holier than thou fashion but hey, a lot of people are that way.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

OK, so apparently I've been confusing the definitions of wrong and unethical.

A couple years ago, there was that story of a husband and wife who refused medical help for their dying child. They knew God would take care of everything. They truly believed they were doing the right thing. I would have thought unethical would be a good way to describe what they were doing.

But what I'm hearing in this thread, is that if you believe what you're doing is right, it's ethical.

So were those parents behaving ethically or not?

They were adhering to a system of moral principles, so yeah, they were behaving ethically.

They may not have been behaving intelligently, though.

[Corcaigh]

I agree with this. As a Jew I was told by peers many times, from as early in life as 5 years old, that I was going to hell if I didn't accept Jesus Christ as my lord and saviour. It's a little disconcerting for a youngster to hear and personally, I couldn't understand raising my child in such a narrow minded, holier than thou fashion but hey, a lot of people are that way.

The truck is going to run you over dude. They are just providing fair warning.