Hersh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Those of you blaming the refs for any of the calls should really blame the National Federation of State High School Associations and the actual State associations themselves. They are the ones that make the rules and they are the ones that hammer us officials on making these calls. It sucks having to make a call like that for what is most of the time a natural reaction in a sport, but it is repeated over and over again that we have to make those calls. I don't know about other states, but in NC officials can and will be suspended for part of the following season if they miss a call like that. ---------- Post added December-8th-2011 at 04:45 PM ---------- I understand that the rules are rules, but this is some BS on the highest ( or lowest) level. Referees should be able to use common-sense on some of these rules. Calling that penalty at that time was lame. And if they were going to do that, enforce 15 on the kickoff. :doh: That is only the case if it happens after the play is over and in the case if he was in the end zone already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Those of you blaming the refs for any of the calls should really blame the National Federation of State High School Associations and the actual State associations themselves. They are the ones that make the rules and they are the ones that hammer us officials on making these calls. It sucks having to make a call like that for what is most of the time a natural reaction in a sport, but it is repeated over and over again that we have to make those calls.I don't know about other states, but in NC officials can and will be suspended for part of the following season if they miss a call like that. +1. I'm not a football official but I've been involved in interpretation briefings where guidance is provided on potentially gray areas. Once that guidance is set, the officials who do not follow it will not be officiating again. ADs and coaches like nothing better than submitting videos where they think officials are not following guidance. That is only the case if it happens after the play is over and in the case if he was in the end zone already. Surely the official could have used his judgement and made up a better rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 so your choices are:a) ignore the rule modify the rule mid-game to how you like it ?? No, rewrite the rule so this never happens again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 No, rewrite the rule so this never happens again. And in the interim, what should the official do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Those of you blaming the refs for any of the calls should really blame the National Federation of State High School Associations and the actual State associations themselves. They are the ones that make the rules and they are the ones that hammer us officials on making these calls. It sucks having to make a call like that for what is most of the time a natural reaction in a sport, but it is repeated over and over again that we have to make those calls.I don't know about other states, but in NC officials can and will be suspended for part of the following season if they miss a call like that. That is only the case if it happens after the play is over and in the case if he was in the end zone already. Then they should write it in a way that it can be enforced on the kickoff if scored and 15 from the end of the runif not scored. ---------- Post added December-8th-2011 at 11:58 AM ---------- And in the interim, what should the official do. Eat a ****...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Then they should write it in a way that it can be enforced on the kickoff if scored and 15 from the end of the runif not scored. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you that there could be a standard of celebration which is perfectly permissible. But that's not in the rules, and until it is asking the official to make **** up is not a solution. The solution is to play by the rules and current interpretations or don't ****ing whine about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you that there could be a standard of celebration which is perfectly permissible. But that's not in the rules, and until it is asking the official to make **** up is not a solution. The solution is to play by the rules and current interpretations or don't ****ing whine about it. My thing is this, the ref knew that doing that didn't have an impact in the game. The only way it created so much impact was when he blew the whistle. Saying that him not blowing the whistle is bending the rules is laughable. I know it was a bad call, you know it was a bad call, he know it was a bad call. That 1 second fist pump had no impact in the game and it potentially cost those players a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 For those of you who are saying that it is a rule and it must be enforced with zero tolerance, would you apply those same sets of views to something like illegal immigration? We have laws on the books right now that do not allow for that yet I know that many here on this forum believe that those laws should not be strictly upheld in all cases. Is it the same? I really don't want to make this into a political discussion. I'm only really trying to provide a slightly different scenario and asking people to apply the same kind of logic so that perhaps a different realization can be made. The intent of the rule is clearly to clean up the game. To prevent taunting etc. That is understandable by all. Certainly there is reason in that. However, as was stated earlier, this is a situation that happens time and time again. I ask you, how much sense does it make to try and legislate natural human reaction. That would be like throwing somebody in jail for running out of a burning building because they didn't try to save every last person. The natural human reaction is to run away from the fire. Not risk your life. I understand that some do but that's not the natural thing. This kind of rule, applied as it was, is exactly that. You are trying to change natural human response. How do you punish somebody for that? It's silly. Those who say that this Ref had no recourse and had to call that penalty are incorrect. Any official has the ability to apply logic to any situation and come to the correct conclusion. Like many of you, I too have been involved with sports my entire life. I have played, coached, officiated, watched from the cheap seats and had my own kids in sports. You can not tell me that this official had no choice. That's just not a truthful statement. Yeah, I know it's the rule but at what point does the rule become more important then the game or more to the point, the kids. We are the ones responsible for taking care of the kids. We are the ones who are supposed to be doing the right thing. This rule, in that misguided interpretation, is not what was intended. I think that the AD who made that statement really should have a serious discussion with the powers that be and somebody needs to point out to him that he gets paid to take care of those kids and the sports that are set up to help build kids into productive adults. He is not paid to justify bad policy. This is my opinion of the matter and I doubt that it will change. Rules or Law or whatever you choose to use as guideline may stipulate anything but we, as human beings know the difference between right and wrong. No law or rule or guideline is going to change that. We know better then this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 the illegal immigration comparison is so far removed from a rationale comparison that it is hard to really even read on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 "Blue Hills Regional Technical School athletic director Ed Catabia told The Boston Globe on Sunday that the referee made "a great call, the right call.""We try and play by the rules, and the rule is 'no celebrating,' " he said." /thread :evilg: What wasn't reported was that Ed Catabia concluded his comments with, "but I'm an idiot who never got to play football as a kid and got beat up as hall monitor, so what do I know about football or sports anyways?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 the illegal immigration comparison is so far removed from a rationale comparison that it is hard to really even read on. Then please, do not trouble yourself by reading on. Probably better for both of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Eat a ****...... and you've removed yourself from being taken seriously in this discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I know who's AD it was. But my point still stands. He went on the record when he didn't have to, to defend the call.So either he is correct about the call being appropriate, or he is a giant douche to rub salt in the opponents' wounds and insert himself in the controversy when he didn't have to. Which is it? The latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Then please, do not trouble yourself by reading on. Probably better for both of us. i read on, and you make some good points. i don't agree with the rule as it is written. but rules are rules. they went over it at their "super bowl breakfast" the day before. they went over it with the coaches AND the captains of the teams prior to the game. it apparently was a big point of emphasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 And in the interim, what should the official do. Enforce it when there is actual unsportsmanlike conduct on the field...not a hand in the air. BTW, you never did respond whether you thought the raising of a hand while running was unsportsmanlike behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 What wasn't reported was that Ed Catabia concluded his comments with, "but I'm an idiot who never got to play football as a kid and got beat up as hall monitor, so what do I know about football or sports anyways?" :doh: you're losing it. again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't have a problem with the ref enforcing the rules that ae in place. That's his job. I have a problem with a rule that says NO celebrating during a touchdown. What the **** kind of rule is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 i read on, and you make some good points.i don't agree with the rule as it is written. but rules are rules. they went over it at their "super bowl breakfast" the day before. they went over it with the coaches AND the captains of the teams prior to the game. it apparently was a big point of emphasis. I am certain that it was a big point of emphasis. I am equally certain that the point of emphasis was with respects to how it applied to taunting or unsportsmanlike. A rule that prevents you from raising your arm in the air, while running down the field is not something that can or ever would be created because it's just not possible to enforce it. This would suggest that an enterpretation of some sort must be applied before a violation of the rule can be issued. Here is where the problem resides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 :doh: you're losing it. again. Never pretended to have it. I made that statement because it is absurd to post comments from the AD of the team that benefited from the stupid call in order to substantiate the validity of the call, of course that's what he's going to say! If Corcaigh really wanted to substantiate his case he'd post a quote from the AD of the team that lost because of the call to see if he thought it was the right call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Never pretended to have it.. fair enough. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 BTW, you never did respond whether you thought the raising of a hand while running was unsportsmanlike behavior. I don't think it is. But what has that got to do with the discussion on whether any form of celebration is prohibited in that league? The key point is that ADs and coaches want above all consistency and officiating in accordance with the rules and interpretations. If as a result of this situation they decide that celebration is allowed then I think that would be better. But until they do, asking the official to do something different is focusing on the wrong problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I made that statement because it is absurd to post comments from the AD of the team that benefited from the stupid call in order to substantiate the validity of the call, of course that's what he's going to say! Absurd? What's absurd is the idea that an official selected for the state championship is an incompetent clown and the winning AD chooses to go on the record as unsportsmanlike, because you don't like the way a high school rule is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't think it is. But what has that got to do with the discussion on whether any form of celebration is prohibited in that league? You don't think it is, I don't think it is, the ref I bet didn't think it was, the players didn't, the coaches don't, the fans don't, so the only people that think it is are the people that never touch the field. Yeah, what a great system. The key point is that ADs and coaches want above all consistency and officiating in accordance with the rules and interpretations. If as a result of this situation they decide that celebration is allowed then I think that would be better. But until they do, asking the official to do something different is focusing on the wrong problem. Asking the official to use his brain is a problem...got it. BTW, I want to know how many refs threw their flags on that play, because unless they all did then it was just the one ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 You don't think it is, I don't think it is, the ref I bet didn't think it was, the players didn't, the coaches don't, the fans don't, so the only people that think it is are the people that never touch the field. Yeah, what a great system. I don't think anyone here is arguing that the rule and its interpretation shouldn't be changed. We've been over that. Asking the official to use his brain is a problem...got it. That's bull****. You ignore that ADs and coaches are demanding this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't think anyone here is arguing that the rule and its interpretation shouldn't be changed. We've been over that. It's like any unjust law, if it is unjust then don't enforce it. I am TOTALLY against taunting 100%, I am totally against excessive celebrations in the endzone....this was NONE of those things. The ref should have the sense enough to recognize that, and not throw the flag. That's bull****. You ignore that ADs and coaches are demanding this. Careful TOS problem... Are AD's and Coaches saying that kids raising a hand for less than a second is a rampant problem in high school sports, because unless they are then they are not demanding THIS. ---------- Post added December-8th-2011 at 12:45 PM ---------- Absurd? What's absurd is the idea that an official selected for the state championship is an incompetent clown and the winning AD chooses to go on the record as unsportsmanlike, because you don't like the way a high school rule is written. I don't like the way the rule was written nor do I like the way it was enforced. BTW, how many other refs threw flags on that play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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