No_Pressure Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 In the last seven years or so, we've drafted Ramsey and Jason Campbell with our first round pick....You have to actually get a good QB when you draft in the first round. they are not guaranteed studs. No, a first round pick QB doesn't automatically equal success. The topic of the thread dealt with trading back vs. drafting a QB in the top 5. I could imagine us missing out on a great QB in the first round. Even if all QB's don't pan out one of the 3 or so high draft QB's will likely succeed in the NFL. Ramsey and Campbell aren't a good example of this scenario since Campbell was taken 25th overall and Ramsey was 32nd overall. They were not among the top QB's in their class, they were the high draft bargain QB's and it didn't work out with either of them here for various reasons, many of which you could argue were not their fault or within their control. Aaron Rogers and Alex Smith (who I'm not going to pretend was anything but a complete disappointment and draft bust prior to this season) were taken ahead of Campbell. One of them is likely to go down as one of the greatest NFL QB's of all time. Prior to Ramsey's selection the QB's were David Carr and Joey Harrington in a sparse draft for QB's which many people knew would yield busts (at least I recall thinking Harrington and Carr were crappy at the time). The argument can obviously be made that a top 5 pick does not equal success at the QB position, but does it necessarily ever yield success at any position 100% of the time? Why would it make more sense to trade back and draft a CB in the 1st round vs. drafting a big name QB in the 1st? So we can get a potentially good corner and a potentially less good QB? In the past 6 years the following players were selected in the top 5 spots of the NFL Draft: 2006: Vince Young, #3 overall 2007: JaMarcus Russell, #1 overall 2008: Matt Ryan, #3 overall 2009: Matthew Stafford, #1 overall 2009: Mark Sanchez, #5 overall 2010: Sam Bradford, #1 overall 2011: Cam Newton, #1 overall I count two total failures in Young and Russell, Ryan, Stafford, and Newton have been great players so far, Bradford shows great potential but hasn't met that potential yet and Sanchez has been quite average for the most part. I'd say more often than not you draft a decent or good QB however. Round 2 QB choices for the past 6 years: 2006: Kellen Clemens, #49 overall 2006: Tavaris Jackson, #64 overall 2007: Kevin Kolb, #36 overall 2007: John Beck, #40 overall 2007: Drew Stanton, #43 overall 2008: Brian Brohm, #56 overall 2008: Chad Henne, #57 overall 2009: Pat White, #44 overall 2010: Jimmy Clausen, #48 overall 2011: Andy Dalton, #35 overall 2011: Colin Kaepernick, #36 overall Round 3 QB choices for the past 5 years looked even worse when I skimmed through them. The point is that the QB failure rate at the NFL level is extremely high. There are multiple CB positions, multiple LB positions, multiple line, WR, and RB positions. There is one QB on the field. There are 32 teams in the league and only half of them have a truly good QB. The idea that you can get a good QB in rounds 2 through 7 is in my opinion not a great one. Sure Drew Brees was a 2nd round pick. Sure Tom Brady was a what? 5th or 6th round pick? How lucky can a team really get in the draft? Top 10 QB's in the NFL in passing yards right now: (Red, Yellow, Green indicate draft position here, not performance) 1. Drew Brees- 2nd round pick 2. Tom Brady- 5/6 I can't remember 3. Aaron Rogers- 1st round pick 4. Eli Manning- Top 5 pick 5. Matthew Stafford- Top 5 pick 6. Phillip Rivers- Top 5 pick 7. Tony Romo sits to pee- UDFA 8. Cam Newton- Top 5 pick 9. Ben Roethlisberger- 1st round pick 10. Matt Ryan- Top 5 pick Now to be fair, lets look at the bottom 10 QB's in the NFL by yardage: 31 (I guess nobody qualified for 32, but it will likely soon be Tebow)- Carson Palmer- Top 5 pick, though I would point out he's only down here because he didn't play X amount of games. 30. Christian Ponder- 1st round pick 29. Curtis Painter - 6th round pick 28. Blaine Gabbert - 1st round pick 27. Matt Cassel - 7th round pick 26. Matt Moore - UDFA 25. Kevin Kolb - 2nd round pick 24. Sam Bradford - Top 5 pick 23. Rex Grossman - 1st round pick 22. Michael Vick - Top 5 pick 21. Tavaris Jackson - 2nd round pick. I would note that Carson Palmer has been to the pro bowl and hasn't gotten settled in as Raiders QB. Ponder and Gabbert are rookies who didn't start a number of games if I'm not mistaken. Bradford was injured for some time, as is Vick. Lets look at QB's of the division leaders by record: Patriots- Tom Brady- 5/6th round pick Baltimore Ravens- Joe Flacco- 1st round pick Houston Texans- QB Carousel starting with 3rd round pick Matt Schaub who was injured, moving to top 5 pick Leinart who was injured to 5th round pick T.J. Yates. The most compelling argument yet in favor of trading down and drafting a QB outside the 1st round perhaps...? Denver Broncos- Tim Tebow- 1st round pick (I laughed and threw up at the same time) Dallas Cowboys- Tony Romo sits to pee- UDFA Green Bay Packers- Aaron Rogers- 1st round pick New Orleans Saints- Drew Brees- 2nd round pick San Francisco 49ers- Alex Smith- Top 5 pick --------------------------------------------------------------------- With all of that said I feel that a QB CAN be drafted outside of the 1st round as the OP suggested and that it is totally possible that a QB from rounds 2 through undrafted are capable of becoming great players for their respective teams given the right circumstances. Hell Kurt Warner famously went from bagging groceries to winning the superbowl. Generally speaking however I feel that the more successful QB's in the NFL both individually and as leaders of a team are QB's who were drafted in the 1st round of the draft at the very least. Moving back in the draft isn't necessarily a death sentence for QB production but drafting a CB in the 1st round and a QB in the 2nd would almost certainly not pan out. Which game would you rather play Redskins fans? Would you rather gamble on what could perhaps be seen as a 1/3 chance at a great QB or perhaps a 1/7 or 1/8 chance at a QB? All of these seasons that we've come in contact with 1st rounders whether it was the two we drafted or the ones we traded for or signed from other teams, have we ever attempted to draft a top QB prospect? Campbell was the bargain QB. Ramsey was the bargain QB. Grossman was another team's bargain QB. When are we going to get out of the bargain bin and play with the big boys? Take a god damn chance on something which could single-handedly save our franchise from mediocrity and stop hoping that one of our bargain bin quarterbacks turns into Tom Brady because the odds of that happening are next to nothing. Also, cornerback is not among our top needs. While I dislike DeAngelo Hall (though not as much Josh Wilson, whilst others want him tarred and feathered), we can live with average at best CB's for a season with a good QB. Having great CB's and a putrid offense will mean nothing and accomplish nothing. I would love to have real press CB's who play physically and jam WR's well. It seems that half the time our blitzes get to the QB it doesn't matter because the CB was giving a 10 yard cushion in zone coverage, didn't break on the ball, and allowed a catch in front of them for the necessary yards for a 1st down. With that said WE HAVE NOT SCORED 30 POINTS OR MORE SINCE 2009. Shall I say that again? Hey, WE HAVE NOT SCORED 40 POINTS OR MORE SINCE 2005. OUR OFFENSE SUCKS AND IT'S BECAUSE WE GO WITH THE BARGAIN QB'S. Just because we got burned with Heath Shuler doesn't mean we have to give up forever on top rated QB prospects... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 You all DO realize who will be guiding the future qb, provided we get one; KYLE! Now that I've thought about it, I'm not extremely confident that Mike can groom him the correct way, but I'd give him a shot over the pillow thrower any day! Kyle? well, thats a whole other story there; sorry, I just don't trust him after seeing his performance thus far. He'd prob trash the guy's arm before the season started, if THIS season is any indication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan07 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 What are you talking about? We have a better SOS than Seattle, and they have a win over us. lol dude we beat Seattle. WTF are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantula Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Guys like Luck, Barkley, and RG III aren't available in every draft, so we MUST take one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjpanzer Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 lol dude we beat Seattle. WTF are you talking about? I meant a win over us in the sense that they have 5 wins while we have 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Operations Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 You all DO realize who will be guiding the future qb, provided we get one; KYLE! Now that I've thought about it, I'm not extremely confident that Mike can groom him the correct way, but I'd give him a shot over the pillow thrower any day! Kyle? well, thats a whole other story there; sorry, I just don't trust him after seeing his performance thus far. He'd prob trash the guy's arm before the season started, if THIS season is any indication. I'm not as down on Kyle as everyone else seems to be. At least he has an aggressive approach. And he had great success in Houston (with a good QB and receivers). I think the problem is the ABYSMAL quarterbacks we have and waiver-wire roster of wide receivers, as well as a mediocre offensive line. Doesn't matter what plays you call if you have crappy talent that can't execute them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan07 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I meant a win over us in the sense that they have 5 wins while we have 4. haha gotcha. I was like hold up? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsWarpath Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Taking a CB in the first round is nuts ecspecially with all the other help they need. Brandon Weeden i think would be a good pick up even with his age. He can ride the bench behind Rex for a year or Two learning the system while they build an O-Line and get Some WR'S.But if they choose not to take a QB than a Center or LG or RG or even all three or DE or a WR. This O-line needs help and depth ASAP as the Defensive Line also is in despate ASAP need of ATTENSION. The only two spots on the team they dont need help is TE'S if they keep the three they have with Cooley, Davis and Paulsen.LB'S are good soon its gonna be time to start looking for a replacement for Fletcher unless they go back to a 4-3 defense. Maybe even another MLB if they can find one in the later rounds. With Luck,(Barkley)who i would stay away from completely and Jones, Brandon Weeden could be a steal if they can get him later in the draft he may not draw alot of ATTEN because of his age but he is already mature has good talent. But one thing is for sure with all the help needed they need to have the best draft they ever had. Meaning every pick pretty much has to work out and make an immediate impack. Jenkins has to come back and stay healthy. ---------- Post added December-6th-2011 at 07:10 PM ---------- Taking a CB in the first round is nuts ecspecially with all the other help they need. Brandon Weeden i think would be a good pick up even with his age. He can ride the bench behind Rex for a year or Two learning the system while they build an O-Line and get Some WR'S.But if they choose not to take a QB than a Center or LG or RG or even all three or DE or a WR. This O-line needs help and depth ASAP as the Defensive Line also is in despate ASAP need of ATTENSION. The only two spots on the team they dont need help is TE'S if they keep the three they have with Cooley, Davis and Paulsen.LB'S are good soon its gonna be time to start looking for a replacement for Fletcher unless they go back to a 4-3 defense. Maybe even another MLB if they can find one in the later rounds. With Luck,(Barkley)who i would stay away from completely and Jones, Brandon Weeden could be a steal if they can get him later in the draft he may not draw alot of ATTEN because of his age but he is already mature has good talent. But one thing is for sure with all the help needed they need to have the best draft they ever had. Meaning every pick pretty much has to work out and make an immediate impack. Jenkins has to come back and stay healthy. And RB and FB is another spot we should be good with Helu,Torrian,and Hightower if they can stay healthy.and they get an O-LINE, O-LINE, O-LINE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 If we don't take a QB with the 1st pick ..... GHH had better be in a padded room with no sharp objects as I'ma do some serious damage to whatever is at hand. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLU44 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 As long as Shanahan & Son, Inc. are running the show, you won't see them draft a rookie quaterback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 As long as Shanahan & Son, Inc. are running the show, you won't see them draft a rookie quaterback! I just don't see how you are saying that with a straight face. Shanahan drafted Cutler. Traded back up to do so. Plus, it'd be pretty hard to draft a quarterback who wasn't a rookie. :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTillIDie Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I think people have got to be crazy if they don't think we're drafting a QB with our 1st pick. The stage has been set; 3 of the top 5 rated quarterbacks available in the Shanahan era are going to be available at the top of the 1st round this year. Both Bradford and Cam Netwon were unavailable, so we thusly set out to fill the 2nd and 3rd most important positions on a football team with young, elite talent. I believe many are confusing Shanahan's reluctance to pick a quarterback in the draft with his reluctance to overpay and pick a bad quarterback in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Taking a CB in the first round is nuts ecspecially with all the other help they need. Brandon Weeden i think would be a good pick up even with his age. He can ride the bench behind Rex for a year or Two learning the system while they build an O-Line and get Some WR'S. You do realize that if Weeden sat for 2 years to learn he would be as old as Grossman is right now when he takes his first snap in an NFL game? Seriously, the Weeden stuff is crazy. Maybe as a mid round guy...maybe. Talented with a very good skillset but, seriously, he is going to be 29 when he comes in as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Redskins Fan Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Guys like Luck, Barkley, and RG III aren't available in every draft, so we MUST take one! that sums it all up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 You do realize that if Weeden sat for 2 years to learn he would be as old as Grossman is right now when he takes his first snap in an NFL game? Seriously, the Weeden stuff is crazy. Maybe as a mid round guy...maybe. Talented with a very good skillset but, seriously, he is going to be 29 when he comes in as a rookie. +10000000000 I swear some people just really don't have a clue =p I'd love Luck, not gonna happen tho. I'd also like Barkley...I know RG3 has been killing it, but I'm still a little ignorant to his skillset because I haven't seen him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidGQ Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 IF we dont draft a QB when Barkley or RG 3 still available at our pick, I will hijack a Tank and drive it over to Redskins Park and let them have it Seriously, I will be EXTREMELY upset if we do pass but I seriously doubt it. We tried for Bradford a few years ago but didn't have enough ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 L. Jones, Luck, Tannehil, Keenum, RG3, Matt Barkley....although I'm starting to doubt if Jones will declare. The Redskins in my opinion, will select either Griffin III or Matt Barkley. I wouldn't be surprised also if the Redskins took Case keenum in the middle rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototype Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I'd be happy with either Barkley or Griffin. RG3 should be our priority, but if he's not there, Barkley is just as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 As long as Shanahan & Son, Inc. are running the show, you won't see them draft a rookie quaterback! Wanna bet?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 L. Jones, Luck, Tannehil, Keenum, RG3, Matt Barkley....although I'm starting to doubt if Jones will declare. The Redskins in my opinion, will select either Griffin III or Matt Barkley. I wouldn't be surprised also if the Redskins took Case keenum in the middle rounds. I think if that were to happen there might be an angry mob.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I also believe if Panthers didn't draft Cam we was going to trade up to the second pick to take him. I they are after ELITE QBs. I have a feeling we are going to tradeup to the second pick to get RG3. He just makes to much sense. He really fits the bill of what has been drafted by Mike these past drafts. He wants seniors, team captain, hardworkers, and on the field off the field awards. RG3 just seems like everything he would want. And that is not even the physical aspect of RG3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I also believe if Panthers didn't draft Cam we was going to trade up to the second pick to take him. I they are after ELITE QBs. I have a feeling we are going to tradeup to the second pick to get RG3. He just makes to much sense. He really fits the bill of what has been drafted by Mike these past drafts. He wants seniors, team captain, hardworkers, and on the field off the field awards. RG3 just seems like everything he would want. And that is not even the physical aspect of RG3. They'll be a kid from Stanford on the trade board at #1 before you get to the RGIII option. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I know RG3 is (RS)JR but he has been on the field all four years really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks N Stuff Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 They'll be a kid from Stanford on the trade board at #1 before you get to the RGIII option.Hail. Yup, and they don't get any more elite than that guy. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that we'll be trying to work a trade with Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Yup, and they don't get any more elite than that guy. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that we'll be trying to work a trade with Indy. The more I think about it, the more I make you right. The best news of the season thus far was the news coming out of Indy last week that Peyton's neck has stabilized and he's clear to step up his rehab. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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