If we don't take a QB with the 1st pick

[Bat~man]

Not to Hijack the thread, but to say that Vick is good because he is flashy and gets voted to pro-bowls, doesn't necessarily translate to being worthy of the number one pick in the draft. Look at his career stats....Tony Romo sits to pee has far better stats and fans regularly call for his head on a platter. Vic, statistically inferior, constantly gets a pass from his fans because of his razzle-dazzle run first pass second "to hell with reading defense" philosophy.

You're just being a hater now.

Is Vick over-rated? Heck yea, but you're killing any credibility you have by making statements like this. Vick may not be worthy of the number 1 overall pick but he is far from a bust.

We damn well better draft a QB who we think will be ready to play next year... I am so sick of projects at this point.

---------- Post added December-6th-2011 at 03:16 PM ----------

Forget the fact that Leftwich has a career completion rate of 58.3 % and an average of 6.61ypc, He was drafted #7 overall. You have to do a lot more than merely be productive in order to justify being drafted at that spot.

To justify it with who? You? Who are you exactly?

You're seriously ignorant to what the term "bust" really means.

[War Paint]

I'd like to make one more major point:

Getting a QB in the draft buys the headcoach more time and wiggle room. See how nobody in Carolina is freaking out that their record is so bad? When you are maturing a young QB, the fans get more patient.

Shanahan may need that job security, so getting his young signal caller would be in his best interest. If he drafts a young QB and we only get 5 wins next year but see our guy develop, I doubt anyone here will be calling for Shanahan's head.

TLDR: Young QB buys coach more time. Shanahan needs more time.

That also crossed my mind. Drafting a "franchise QB" will calm the fan base and people will be optimistic about the future, even if next year we have a season like the Panthers are having this year.

I know some say that Mike Shanahan has neglected the QB position since he's been here, but that's not really true. He did trade for McNabb. Heck, most people, even in the media thought we robbed the Eagles at the time the trade happened. Unfortunately it didn't work out. This year, while Shanahan has been criticized over going with Rex and Beck, in the long run it will probably be a good thing. Would anyone rather have Gabbert over Kerrigan and Jenkins? We had no way to get Cam Newton. I guess we might have been able to get Andy Dalton or Ryan Mallet, but honestly, if we come away with Barkley or RG3, we are going to be glad we suffered through Rex and Beck instead of drafting a QB last draft.

[Sacks N Stuff]

Anyone remember when Green Bay traded up ONE PICK infront of us with Oakland to take Aaron Rogers? I'll never forget the analysts saying we would have our pick of QB because Oakland wasn't going to take one...then....poof.

Jason Campbell. Rest is history.

That didn't happen. Green Bay owned that pick all along.

[KDawg]

Forget the fact that Leftwich has a career completion rate of 58.3 % and an average of 6.61ypc, He was drafted #7 overall. You have to do a lot more than merely be productive in order to justify being drafted at that spot.

So why is Grossman NOT a bust, then? In fact, Rex is more of a bust than Leftwich ever was.

Leftwich's career has been a ton better than Rex's. Yet Byron is on that list and Rex isn't. Interesting.

I mean, heck, Leftwich has career numbers of: 58.3% comp rate, 6.6 YPA, 58 TD, 41 INT.

Grossman? Career, 55% comp rate, 5.5 YPA, 50 TD, 55 INT. He doesn't have a SINGLE STAT THAT'S BETTER.

The argument that people are going to use is the Super Bowl appearance. The Bears got there in spite of Grossman, not because of him. I'm tired of that argument, though, to be honest. To put it simply, without going back over every painstaking detail, I don't agree with that assessment.

Leftwich wasn't a stud by any means, but he helped guide the Jags to the playoffs (8-3 under him as the starter that year) in his third year. He was cut the next year for Garrard.

[War Paint]

See: Jamarcus Russell.

See Al Davis.

[mjpanzer]

That didn't happen. Green Bay owned that pick all along.

I ran to wikipedia to come show you how wrong you were...but you are totally right.

Why on earth would I have rememberd it going down that way!? Was there some reason I was mad Oakland did something that we didn't get Rogers?

Very strange.

EDIT: Looks like Oakland traded up with Seattle? Maybe I remember being upset that we hadn't jumpfrogged, but I doubt anyone expected Green Bay to go QB.

I DO remember the Skins had made this trade up before the draft, which is in itself, a VERY strange move.

[DWil]

If either Griffin or Barkley are off the board when we pick, then our FO has failed. As the draft stands now, nobody should take a QB in front of us (except Luck...maybe?) unless they trade up. If two teams succesfully trade up right in front of us to take a QB we need, I'll be mad we didn't pull the trigger.

The mock listed below has us projected at pick 7 as of Dec. 1st with a Barkley selection. If we finish in the top 7, that should be decent position for AT least Griffin or Barkley given most of the teams picking ahead of us don't need a QB (just as long knowone from behind leap frogs us and take our guys).

http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If they don't take a QB in the first round this year, there is really no point in watching any games next year.

[polywog999]

So why is Grossman NOT a bust, then? In fact, Rex is more of a bust than Leftwich ever was.

Leftwich's career has been a ton better than Rex's. Yet Byron is on that list and Rex isn't. Interesting.

I mean, heck, Leftwich has career numbers of: 58.3% comp rate, 6.6 YPA, 58 TD, 41 INT.

Grossman? Career, 55% comp rate, 5.5 YPA, 50 TD, 55 INT. He doesn't have a SINGLE STAT THAT'S BETTER.

The argument that people are going to use is the Super Bowl appearance. The Bears got there in spite of Grossman, not because of him. I'm tired of that argument, though, to be honest. To put it simply, without going back over every painstaking detail, I don't agree with that assessment.

Leftwich wasn't a stud by any means, but he helped guide the Jags to the playoffs (8-3 under him as the starter that year) in his third year. He was cut the next year for Garrard.

??? Grossman, thus far in his career is certainly a bust. I thought that I Indicated that with my post?

Grossman was a first round pick and perfectly supports my contention of how drafting in the first round does not necessarily guarantee success.

[KDawg]

??? Grossman, thus far in his career is certainly a bust. I thought that Indicated that with my post?

I didn't see the Grossman line at the top. But the list you provided afterwards didn't seem to support your Grossman addition, either.

Point was, Leftwich was successful. He wasn't an all-pro QB, but a serviceable QB plucked out of the first round can do wonders for a franchise. He had (along with others, obviously) the Jags in the playoffs and then was unceremoniously dumped.

[DM72]

If we don't take a QB and RGIII is still there, I'd be officially done with this team. DONE!!!

[polywog999]

You're just being a hater now.

Is Vick over-rated? Heck yea, but you're killing any credibility you have by making statements like this. Vick may not be worthy of the number 1 overall pick but he is far from a bust.

Whether not he was indeed a "bust" is probably more a matter of opinion. The "list" that I offered was an article that I did not write, but posted as a C&P. I happen to agree with it, even if Vick doesn't belong on the list, he certainly did not deserve to be the first pick in the draft based on his stats, and stats not withstanding, what exactly has Vick done in the playoffs?

To justify it with who? You? Who are you exactly?

You're seriously ignorant to what the term "bust" really means.

I don't want to comment on myself. I'm certainty my own biggest fan, but I'd really rather talk about the Thread.

Lost in all of this talk of who constitutes a bust or not is my assertion that...

1 Quarterbacks need time to develop

2 It's always a plus to have a solid veteran starter to allow a drafted QB, time for that development.

3 A fist round pick is not an automatic grantee of a franchise type QB.

4 THERE IS NO #4

[Snarf]

if we're unable to land one of the top tier qbs for some reason, draft a wr/rb in the 1st and a wr/rb in the 2nd. the best available wr/rb

[S.T.real,lights,out]

If we don't take a QB and RGIII is still there, I'd be officially done with this team. DONE!!!

I think a lot of us would feel this way and im sure i would at that point and time but come Aug i would be watching the games and be mad at them like usual.

[Aghar]

All I know is if I am in my seat for opening day next year and Rex Grossman runs through the tunnel as our starting QB the entire stadium may come tumbling down. I'm serious. I've watched our QB play all season from home and my cozy stadium seat all year. It's UGLY. Very ugly. At this point I'll take anyone, and I do mean anyone other than the two guys on our roster. While I can accept the arguement for keeping Rex ( knowing the system, etc ), that doesn't mean I agree with it. You watch this guy play football and it baffles my mind to see him look totally confused at times. A new QB may get confused at times, but at least I can pretend that maybe, just maybe he won't be forever. Can't say the same for Rex.

[pjfootballer]

I'm sorry, but to take anything but QB in the first round this next draft would trump all the other stupid things this organization has done over the last 20 years. We need a 10-15 franchise QB. We haven't had one in over 30 years. It's time.

[polywog999]

I didn't see the Grossman line at the top. But the list you provided afterwards didn't seem to support your Grossman addition, either.

Point was, Leftwich was successful. He wasn't an all-pro QB, but a serviceable QB plucked out of the first round can do wonders for a franchise. He had (along with others, obviously) the Jags in the playoffs and then was unceremoniously dumped.

Correct about Leftwich being a plus for the people who drafted him. He was a good QB who had some bad luck (injuries) no he wasn't what was necessarily expected, put he got the job done. That being said, those type of QB's are available much latter in the draft.

Another problem with drafting a QB, though, is Mr Snyder's penchant for dismissing head coaches after a brief stint with the team. This type of tumultuous backdrop is real killer for a young QB's development. QB's, more than any other position, are defined by the system that they are brought up in.

If they don't take a QB in the first round this year' date=' there is really no point in watching any games next year.[/quote']

What if a big name was available in free agency or via trade?

[S.T.real,lights,out]

What if a big name was available in free agency or via trade?

Just say NO to Manning!!

[polywog999]

Just say NO to Manning!!

Oh, some fans on this site would trade their house for him!

Sounds like a Danny/Vinnie move!

All I know is if I am in my seat for opening day next year and Rex Grossman runs through the tunnel as our starting QB the entire stadium may come tumbling down. I'm serious. I've watched our QB play all season from home and my cozy stadium seat all year. It's UGLY. Very ugly. At this point I'll take anyone, and I do mean anyone other than the two guys on our roster. While I can accept the arguement for keeping Rex ( knowing the system, etc ), that doesn't mean I agree with it. You watch this guy play football and it baffles my mind to see him look totally confused at times. A new QB may get confused at times, but at least I can pretend that maybe, just maybe he won't be forever. Can't say the same for Rex.

Quite understandable. Entering the season with two unproven QB's was a disaster waiting to happen. Coach Shanahan, I would imagine, felt in his heart that he was fine at that position, but the fact that they failed has really cast a pall over perceptions about Shanny's judgment.

If Mike had gone out and gotten a vet who failed [like McNabb] it would have perhaps been excusable - you could say that he just wasn't a good fit. That would be the perception, anyway.

Kind of like going for it on fourth down - If it works, you're a genius.....but if you're wrong, it will follow you to your grave ~

[Rufus T Firefly]

What if a big name was available in free agency or via trade?

I hear Donovan McNabb could be available.

[KDawg]

What if a big name was available in free agency or via trade?

If by big name you mean: Henne, Garrard or Johnson as a place holder, cool. If you mean Peyton Manning, Kyle Orton, Jason Campbell, then no.

Now, if Aaron Rodgers were released because he's too awesome for Green Bay, I'd say make the move.

[wildbill1952]

For the first time since I joined this board, I am advocating getting someone besides OL. If we had followed my advice in 3 of the previous 6 years, the Skins would now be sitting pretty with a good OL and some of the current starters as decent depth. But even that assumes they made the right picks.

This year, it's obvious what the Skins have is way, way worse than the days we had Jason Campbell as the starter. I'm glad they gave Beck the shot, because that eliminated both of the QB's on the team as any sort of future QB on this team. If we have a top 4 pick, with the Rams and the Jags currently committed to their young QB's, then there isn't much choice. It'd be great to find a guard and another tackle in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, but really, the current QB's on the roster are just not very good. Rex shows as much bad as good and Beck just didn't have enough of the Good Beck to outweigh the Bad Rex.

But if we get a QB out of the top 4, there needs to be a 4 year commitment to surrounding him with the best of weapons - spending some top draft picks on OL first and then some top WR's. Don't do what they did with Campbell and Ramsey - draft the QB and then forget about the OL. They need two WRs that can stretch the field, that forces the opponents to put one of the receivers in single coverage, not letting the opponents just double up on the best of our receivers. But OL, first and foremost. Give even an average QB all day to throw the ball or find the open receivers and he will find them. That only comes through a serious upgrade fo the OL - AFTER we get a QB. I don't care if the QB sits for the first year. Just get him an OL.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

I hear Donovan McNabb could be available.

[lou4gehrig]

No way we don't take a QB. This is such a QB driven league now, that it's almost impossible to build a team without having this position set. The rest of our team is decent enough for now, bringing in a leader like Barkley or a playmaker like RG3 (or even Jones) would solidify the position for us for the next 5 years at least.

This years draft is set up perfectly for us. An elite prospect in Luck is out there potentially for trade. If not, two very good top 5-10 prospects available in RG3 and Barkley. If we don't draft a QB now, what are we waiting for?

Compare Carolina's future to ours. Despite us having a better team overall, they have Cam Newton. They realistically have a better chance to win a Super Bowl in the next 10 years given the current roster simply because of this one player.

Any talk of Grossman continuing as our starter is ridiculous at this point. He was benched for Beck earlier in the year. Compare him to a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers and we'll see how far away from being a top 5 team. At least Barkley and RG3 have the potential at this point to be top players. Grossman has already proven he's a serviceable starter only in this league. Combining long term potential + current ability, Grossman is far in away the worst starting QB in the leauge (next to Painter who is really the backup to Peyton).

[polywog999]

If by big name you mean: Henne, Garrard or Johnson as a place holder, cool. If you mean Peyton Manning, Kyle Orton, Jason Campbell, then no.

Now, if Aaron Rodgers were released because he's too awesome for Green Bay, I'd say make the move.

And trading for a QB? Remember, just because a QB hasn't made it big yet, is not necessarily an indication that he won't be a great fit for Kyle's offence. If your going by who has made the pro-bowl, well, that's that's a rather narrow approach I would think.

That's why teams spend money on their scouting department....the Skins have one of the best that there is.