BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Can we all agree that Orakpo is a good pass rusher but not a dominant one? And imo, he's definitely not a "franchise" caliber defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 what i dont understand about rak is why he never tries to go inside. he gets held a lot on the outside and its obvious now that hes never gonna get that call. so go inside? do a spin move? switch it up. the guy is one of the most if not THE most athletic dudes on our team, im surprised he never tries the inside.pretty weird if you ask me. I've seen him try it one or two times (haven't been looking for it, but it just stood out to me). Every time it worked. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I've seen him try it one or two times (haven't been looking for it, but it just stood out to me). Every time it worked. :2cents: im sure he has, it just seems he ALWAYS wants to just bullrush or try to get outside. if he had an inside move and could keep tackles honest he'd be right up there with the big guys. youd think our coaches at this point or even he himself would be like "hmm, maybe go inside like 40% of the time?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The numbers say Orakpo's probably an elite pass rusher, he'll probably finish with double digit sacks for the 2nd time in 3 years. But when I think of elite pass rushers, I think of guys that wreak havoc game in and game out and can't really be blocked one on one. Demarcus Ware, Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney used to be in that class. Just by the eye test, I know what Sheehan and Galdi were getting at, and I don't know if Rak is in that group. But he's still a very good pass rusher. Rak's numbers stack very well next to Ware's and Allen's over the course of their first 2 years. He does seem to be having a down year thus far, but I am with holding judgement until the end of the year to compare season3 for each of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I've seen him try it one or two times (haven't been looking for it, but it just stood out to me). Every time it worked. :2cents: I noticed that a couple times, though I'm sure the the talent level of the individual opponent has a lot to do with that. When I watch him play, it just looks like he gets hemmed up at times, relatively easy. I think he needs to work better at being more consistent with his technique, and develop a wider array of swim moves. I've been noticing thi sever since the beginning o flast season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 im sure he has, it just seems he ALWAYS wants to just bullrush or try to get outside. if he had an inside move and could keep tackles honest he'd be right up there with the big guys. youd think our coaches at this point or even he himself would be like "hmm, maybe go inside like 40% of the time?" I know what you mean, I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 If you have noticed, teams have tendancies to give TE help with the LT, leaving Kerrigan against the RT (who is not as talented as the LT anyway). Kerrigan is good, but I think that teams scheme for Orakpo. I think that is part of it. But Orakpo and Hasslett have to find other ways for him to get pressure. You would think teams scheme for Ware and Jared Allen, yet they still lead the league in sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Last night Phillip Daniels had said that Orakpo is better suited with his hand in the dirt because he has the raw power and explosion to kill o linemen with the leverage he gets in a 3pt stance. Phil also said Rak could benefit from talking to guys like D Ware and learning a few more moves. I don't think he is not elite talent at all, until he figures out the 3-4 OLB it looks like another case of neutralizing player talent for scheme. Exactly what I was saying on twitter sunday during the game. Rak at end in a 4-3 would dominate but in a 3-4 his talent/best assests are not used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Exactly what I was saying on twitter sunday during the game. Rak at end in a 4-3 would dominate but in a 3-4 his talent/best assests are not used. Which is why they should either draft another pure DE/LB or we'll have to wait to see how this lines shapes up next season when Jenkins returns. I'd rather have 5 rushing specialist where we can alternate according to favorable match-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Heres why this isnt stat: We are bad. For a lot of those games he was the lone pass rushing threat on the field against Philly, NY, and Dallas. Rocky wasnt going to command a block Phillip Daniels wasnt going to command a block Kedric Golston the same. You could sell out and double team Rak or even just scheme to take him out of the game. That doesnt mean doesnt have the ability to impact a game. You could put LT in the same roll and you wouldnt start seeing sacks and pressures. You would see one guy getting schemed by some good pass protection while still making some pressures and plays sometimes, but youd see 10 other guys getting stoned in the pass rush in one on one, biting on simple play action, attempting arm tackles and the like. Until you get this defense structurally sound, you wont see anyone getting turnovers and stats unless we sell out and get blown out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 You know what, I'm going to say the same thing about Orakpo that I said about Jason Campbell: If you get rid of him, you better find someone better to replace him. Here we are, 0-3 on QBs since we traded JC. I understand the OP didn't mean no harm by this thread, but I'm getting absoultely sick and tired of this bash-Orakpo crap. If you don't have a better idea @ OLB then Orakpo, STFU... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I've seen him try it one or two times (haven't been looking for it, but it just stood out to me). Every time it worked. :2cents: Except when they've run the ball his direction and he gets blocked. Sometimes it is about the play. BTW, I checked Kerrigan as well. He doesn't have a sack vs the NFC East either so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I think that is part of it. But Orakpo and Hasslett have to find other ways for him to get pressure. You would think teams scheme for Ware and Jared Allen, yet they still lead the league in sacks. Ware and Allen have both been in the league for 6+ years, they are much more seasoned, and thus have more skills to beat the rush. I think that Rak is great, but not elite (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 You know what, I'm going to say the same thing about Orakpo that I said about Jason Campbell:If you get rid of him, you better find someone better to replace him. Here we are, 0-3 on QBs since we traded JC. I understand the OP didn't mean no harm by this thread, but I'm getting absoultely sick and tired of this bash-Orakpo crap. If you don't have a better idea @ OLB then Orakpo, STFU... I don't think anyone is saying get rid of him. I think people are becoming a little bit more aware that maybe Orakpo isn't the end-all be-all that we thought he was. He still has some kinks to work out before he truly is an elite pass rusher. I'm glad he's on our team, but I'd like to see some improvement out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't think anyone is saying get rid of him. I think people are becoming a little bit more aware that maybe Orakpo isn't the end-all be-all that we thought he was. He still has some kinks to work out before he truly is an elite pass rusher. I'm glad he's on our team, but I'd like to see some improvement out of him. I agree he has room to improve. Problem is, and this has been going on since at least the Carolina game, is a solid pocket of Skins fans calling for getting rid of him because he is a liability in run defense, coverage, and only has one pass rushing move so he will not improve and is looking like a bust. In his third season. They'll be in here eventually, especially if we lose to Dallas this sunday (God forbid)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper 21 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Don't get it twisted Kerrigan is the sidekick. Like Mathis to freeney. Woodley to Harrison. Ray Edwards to Allen. Spencer to ware. You need both to be successful. Who cares who's elite they are neccessary to success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 what i dont understand about rak is why he never tries to go inside. he gets held a lot on the outside and its obvious now that hes never gonna get that call. so go inside? do a spin move? switch it up. the guy is one of the most if not THE most athletic dudes on our team, im surprised he never tries the inside.pretty weird if you ask me. The hand use and leverage manipulation just aren't there. It's mighty disappointing Exactly what I was saying on twitter sunday during the game. Rak at end in a 4-3 would dominate but in a 3-4 his talent/best assests are not used. I'm not entirely convinced. He might be a little better as a full-time hand in the dirt player but he still doesn't have the same kinds of tools in his arsenal that dominant 4-3 ends have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Perhaps if they aren't developing like they should, Lou Spanos is the person to talk to. Is it not his job to coach up the linebackers and help them to learn technique that will make them better? But seriously, Rak was a 4-3 end in college and only has 1.5 years under his belt as a 3-4 OLB. Ware came out of school as an OLB, so his ability to cover and his technique from an upright stance is more refined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 He's still developing. NO defensive player is in their prime by their 3rd year. He may not be developing fast enough for some of you, but I've noticed him using new moves this year, and he will only get better. I have faith in Rak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Orakpo is the new Cooley on ES. A good player who is vastly overrated by the fanbase for whatever reason. He is an above average to good pass rusher and below average against the run and and in coverage. Also not much in the way of weakside help...an area where Kerrigan excels. I believe Kerrigan is already a better overall player than Orakpo, who too often goes entire games without making an impact. I have no desire to "get rid" of Orakpo. At worst he is a solid player with upside still and we need as many guys like that as we can get. But if his name was brought up in talks about moving up to get Luck, etc.. I wouldn't hesitate to deal him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookieskin Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hmmm Maybe Indy would want him for Peyton..... I JEST I JEST!!!!!! : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantula Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 All great pass rushers get held, its not just happening to Orakpo. The elite players figure out a way to still make plays. Obviously it's not just RAK, I'm simply saying the guy is held a lot. Just out of boredom, I Youtube'd him being held...it's kinda comical to see the way he's held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The hand use and leverage manipulation just aren't there. It's mighty disappointing I'm not entirely convinced. He might be a little better as a full-time hand in the dirt player but he still doesn't have the same kinds of tools in his arsenal that dominant 4-3 ends have. Have to disagree because I believe he has the tools.Rak with his hand down plays right into his top 3 assets power,explosion,speed and takles have to po lay him honestly. Does everyone forget rak exploding out of his stance then lifting a LT right off the ground against pitt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Have to disagree because I believe he has the tools.Rak with his hand down plays right into his top 3 assets power,explosion,speed and takles have to po lay him honestly. Does everyone forget rak exploding out of his stance then lifting a LT right off the ground against pitt? Beat me to it. I think people need to consider the possibility that Rak is just plain stronger than everyone else, by a noticeable margin. His strength is documented and pretty much legendary at Texas. He could be a new kind of pass rusher like we've never seen(tongue in cheek). Just lifts guys and throws them aside. What happens when you're 300 lbs and your feet leave the ground? You grab onto something. That something is Rak who was trying to blow by you while you were airborne. That's a hold, and a different kind of hold at that. You don't see tackles lifted off the ground. Until Orakpo. It just seems ****ty to me to hear "der, do a spin move or something". It's not that simple. This isn't Madden, there is no O button. Whatever happened to all that "coaches need to play the players to their strength" business that we've heard on this board? And really, it's not like he's never done a spin move anyway, I've seen him do it this year. I will say it doesn't seem as bad as last year, though there still there, and they look MUCH worse than 'everyone else gets held'. No, these guys aren't holding, they're hanging on to Rak for dear life; Rak is dragging them toward the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Have to disagree because I believe he has the tools.Rak with his hand down plays right into his top 3 assets power,explosion,speed and takles have to po lay him honestly. Does everyone forget rak exploding out of his stance then lifting a LT right off the ground against pitt? No one questions his physical talents. Now, I may be thinking about a different play (although I somewhat doubt it) but there are three things I feel obligated to say about the play you just brought up: 1. It was a preseason game. 2. It was against Tony Hills, a career backup who has only been pressed into limited action in four games. 3. Orakpo didn't finish the play. He had the linemen off his feet completely but still couldn't get by the block until the play had already moved away from him. Why? As strong as Orakpo is he still had to expend all of his momentum to get that push and lost his leg drive in the process. He was also unable to disengage his hands from the blocker and actually helped pull him back into an upright, on the ground stance. It's the little things that are holding him back in a big way. I'm not entirely sure he has the instincts to measure up with his physical ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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