Larry Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 OK, so next Saturday, the #1 and #2-ranked college football teams will play each other. I was wondering: How far do y'all figure the loser of that game will drop, in the rankings? Which then led me to also ask: Should the loser of that game drop? At least very far? I think that we all know, from past experience, that the loser will drop. Maybe a lot. (Maybe only to #10, or so.) But I think we all know that is, say, #2 loses to #1, by 24-21, they're gonna drop to #8, maybe worse. Should they? In my hypothetical, does a team losing a close game, to #1, really cause you, the (imaginary) popularity contest voter, to say "Well, I thought they were #2. But now that they lost to #1, they must be a lot worse than that."? So, I've kind of got two questions: How far do you think the loser will drop? (I think I'll make that a poll.) And should the loser drop? And if so, how much? (Poll under construction.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 How far the loser WILL drop I don't know, but the loser definitely SHOULD drop, as they will no longer be undefeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 If it's a close game, I would be surprised to see them below Boise St in the standings. BCS is always fixed like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 If it's a close game, I would be surprised to see them below Boise St in the standings. BCS is always fixed like that.The BCS is fixed in favor of Boise :rotflmao:Thanks, I needed a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 If it's a close game, I would be surprised to see them below Boise St in the standings. BCS is always fixed like that. Love the use of the term "fixed". . . Should they drop lower? Assume: LSU loses a close game to Alabama. Oklahoma State (currently #3) beats up an unranked opponent. (I haven't even checked the schedule, I have no idea who they're playing.) If this happens, then have we even proven that LSU should drop to #3? What evidence do we have, to conclude that Ok State is better than LSU, in that scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Should they drop that far? No. Will they? Probably. The rankings aren't determined by causes of losses, they're just determined by simple win/loss record. I saw someone on Twitter make a comment the other day that in some form, Vegas oddsmakers should have a say in the polls, and I'd agree with that. Vegas actually watches every game. Coaches polls and media polls are almost always largely off in some form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The BCS is fixed in favor of Boise :rotflmao:Thanks, I needed a laugh. I was saying that there is no way the BCS wants Boise State in the championship game and thus the losing team in a close game will be ranked 4th while Boise St. stays 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 It obviously depends on how much the losing teams loses by. No new threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The loser will drop.My opinion is that if the AP (human) Poll mattered, they probably wouldn't drop that far, if it is a close game. The BCS (computer ) Poll will just see it as a loss, and probably drop them at least 3 spots, depending on what else happens in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I was saying that there is no way the BCS wants Boise State in the championship game and thus the losing team in a close game will be ranked 4th while Boise St. stays 5th. 'Course, there's a simple way of solving this persecution complex. Join a real conference. I suspect that the Big 12 is accepting applications. Go undefeated in the Big 12, (or the SEC, or the Pac 10, or heck, maybe in the Big 10), and it's a pretty safe bet you'll be in the championship game. ---------- Post added October-30th-2011 at 09:36 PM ---------- The rankings aren't determined by causes of losses, they're just determined by simple win/loss record. I saw someone on Twitter make a comment the other day that in some form, Vegas oddsmakers should have a say in the polls, and I'd agree with that. Vegas actually watches every game. Coaches polls and media polls are almost always largely off in some form. Oh, I agree that I've had the impression for some time that a large number of the voters are basing their vote simply on looking at the final scores of the games. (If even that much.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 So tempting to say something *coughplayoffcough* that would derail the thread, but I won't. IMO, a one-loss SEC team, especially one that loses to the #1 or #2 team in the country (and MORE especially in a close game) is better than an undefeated WAC team. I like Boise State, I really do, but they'd do well to take Larry's advice in post #10. Problem solved. I'd say the loser drops to around #5. Which is probably too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Stanford is making the national championship, they beat oregon and they get more points in the BCS formula to push them to 2. Boise will fall because of their trash schedule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinswillwin06 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Blowout loss: Down to 8 or 9. Close loss: 4 or 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thank you, Larry, for making a thread about a question I've been asking for years. (Not sarcastic, if there's any confusion. I'm very happy to see this thread.) Why the hell should a lower-ranked team drop after losing to a higher-ranked team? Isn't that what should happen if the rankings are correct? How far the loser WILL drop I don't know, but the loser definitely SHOULD drop, as they will no longer be undefeated. Why? That doesn't make any sense at all. If the #2 team loses a close game to the #1 team, on what planet does that provide evidence that the #2 team shouldn't still be ranked #2? How does losing to the #1 team show that the #2 team is inferior to the #3 team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 If the game is a thriller, the losing team probably won't fall very far. They'll probably be in the top five still. If it's an ass kicking, they'll still be in the top ten, but they'll be a sub-top five team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 'Course, there's a simple way of solving this persecution complex. Join a real conference. I suspect that the Big 12 is accepting applications. Go undefeated in the Big 12, (or the SEC, or the Pac 10, or heck, maybe in the Big 10), and it's a pretty safe bet you'll be in the championship game. Ask the undefeated 2004 Auburn team how that works. Of course they are, and were at the time, in the weak SEC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I was saying that there is no way the BCS wants Boise State in the championship game and thus the losing team in a close game will be ranked 4th while Boise St. stays 5th.Ah, I misunderstood. You're right about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Why? That doesn't make any sense at all. If the #2 team loses a close game to the #1 team, on what planet does that provide evidence that the #2 team shouldn't still be ranked #2? How does losing to the #1 team show that the #2 team is inferior to the #3 team?Forget Boise. Hell, forget Stanford. So you're saying that, say, a 1-loss Alabama (:fingersx: ) should be higher than an undefeated Oklahoma State team??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Forget Boise. Hell, forget Stanford. So you're saying that, say, a 1-loss Alabama (:fingersx: ) should be higher than an undefeated Oklahoma State team??? Once again, you're ignoring who the loss is to. Explain to me why losing a close game to the #1 team in the country should be a factor in determining if the #5 team is better than the #6 team if one of them has played the #1 team, and lost as we would expect, and the other one hasn't played that team. This is one of the fundamental flaws in the BCS system; I can't believe you of all people are taking the other side here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Once again, you're ignoring who the loss is to. Explain to me why losing a close game to the #1 team in the country should be a factor in determining if the #5 team is better than the #6 team if one of them has played the #1 team, and lost as we would expect, and the other one hasn't played that team. This is one of the fundamental flaws in the BCS system; I can't believe you of all people are taking the other side here.Oh, don't get me wrong, I still loathe the BCS. And we're talking the #3 team (an undefeated OSU) vs. what would likely be a #5 or #6 team.Frankly, if the loser DIDN'T fall, there'd just be a rematch for the MNC, and I sure as hell don't wanna see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Forget Boise. Hell, forget Stanford. So you're saying that, say, a 1-loss Alabama (:fingersx: ) should be higher than an undefeated Oklahoma State team??? After a close 21-20 type of game? In my opinion, common human logic says yes, but evil, emotionless computers say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/10/31/2526168/bcs-rankings-standings-projections-top-25-lsu-alabama according to this article in 2006 when #1-2 played, OSU v MIch, the loser retained #2. but then fell in the polls the following weeks to USC and Florida.... it also suggests that the computers are window dressing and ultimately the voters have the power and will get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Ironically, both #1 and #2 got their respective asses handed to them in the MNC/Rose Bowl in '06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The loser will drop no further than 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONTOP Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 LSU Beats Alabama, Arkansas beats LSU, Arkansas goes to SEC Championship game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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