Romney/Ryan Lose 2012 Election Thread

[mistertim]

The election is not going to be about Romney.

It's going to be a referendum on Obama.... UNLESS the GOP is dumb enough to put up an extremist as their candidate.

I think a lot of it depends on whether or not the Obama campaign can shift the discussion from everything being a referendum on him to being a study of who and what Romney is and supports. It also depends on how much steam the current anti-corporate/wall street sentiment keeps into election year. If we go into the general election with that still having a full head of steam and a large majority of people still agreeing with the idea of upping taxes on the rich and corporations then Obama could definitely try to paint Romney into a corner with that and hammer him on it.

[Larry]

I think a lot of it depends on whether or not the Obama campaign can shift the discussion from everything being a referendum on him to being a study of who and what Romney is and supports. It also depends on how much steam the current anti-corporate/wall street sentiment keeps into election year. If we go into the general election with that still having a full head of steam and a large majority of people still agreeing with the idea of upping taxes on the rich and corporations then Obama could definitely try to paint Romney into a corner with that and hammer him on it.

As opposed to the other candidates, who are on record endorsing slashing corporate taxes, and taxes on the top 1%, completely eliminating the Capital Gains tax, and granting another "amnesty" to allow corporations who've been hiding their profits offshore, to avoid taxes, to bring them, again, without taxes?

You're right, Romney can be painted with the "loves big corporations" paintbrush. But not nearly to the extent that the rest of the field can.

At least the ones I've really looked at. (Cain and Perry).

[Prosperity]

You do have a valid point. Romney did say that. And if he wins the nomination, they're going to try to label him with that.

OTOH, let's be honest.

Romney said that corporations are people.

The rest of the GOP field have made it clear, by their positions and their proposals, that they think corporations are God.

You think they're going to vote for

"I'm going to cut taxes on corporate

profit

, by 3/4

I'm going to

increase

taxes on money that corporations pay employees,

I'm going to tax the money that corporations pay for their employee's health insurance.

I'm going to cut the taxes of the top 1% in half,

I'm going to

eliminate

taxes on unearned income for the top .01%,

And I'm going to

double

taxes on the bottom 50%

Cain?

All current evidence points to Cain winning the GOP nomination and then losing the election in a landslide

[mistertim]

All current evidence points to Cain winning the GOP nomination and then losing in a landslide

Do you really see Cain lasting the whole primary season and staying on top? If so, why? Not being sarcastic at all, just curious.

[Prosperity]

Do you really see Cain lasting the whole primary season and staying on top? If so, why? Not being sarcastic at all, just curious.

2 more months till Iowa, he has a significant lead there, weeks later it's South Carolina, where he has a substantial lead.

I understand Romney has a big name, and big pockets, but he's had the same level of support throughout the process and I don't see any reason to think that will change

I know it's hard to conceive, but I think "the Base" is that crazy

[Larry]

I could see it happening.

I agree with Prosperity, it would be crazy. But crazy is driving the bus, these days.

If you'd prefer it phrased another way, the base has already demonstrated their ability to ignore a LOT, if it's from somebody on their side. And the base is what rules, in the primaries.

[mistertim]

So if Cain were the nominee, how would you see the general election debates ending up?

[mjah]

I really can't see Cain winning the nomination. Looking back at 2004 as a point of reference, I see Cain's eventual role being that of Howard Dean to Romney's John Kerry. An interesting and different candidate in some ways, but ultimately out of place as a prospective nominee and unelectable when the time comes to actually pull levers in the booth.

Who knows whether or not Cain will have his own "YEEEARGH" moment, but at some point even the far-right wacko sects of the GOP will realize it's complete suicide to put up a guy for President who literally has never held a public office of any kind whatsoever, and who has no killer-app message to boot. At least that wily coot Ross Perot had something to say that diverged from both party lines. Cain is trying to become the top dog in an entrenched party. I really can't imagine it happening, and that's before even getting into the smoke-vs-fire debate regarding his sex harassment accusations.

[visionary]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45074917/ns/politics-political_cartoons/displaymode/1247/?beginSlide=1#

[AsburySkinsFan]

I totally disagree with both of you.

The GOP is presenting the country with a bunch of nutty extremists... and Romney. In times of economic trouble, people will vote against the incumbent President, if the GOP gives them a halfway reasonable choice.

I agree, Romney is the centerist's vote in the GOP. Perry and Cain aren't going to get the center, the only one that gets the center is Romney, and you need the center to win the general.

---------- Post added November-3rd-2011 at 05:52 AM ----------

You're right, Romney can be painted with the "loves big corporations" paintbrush. But not nearly to the extent that the rest of the field can.

At least the ones I've really looked at. (Cain and Perry).

But in the general election if it is Romney v Obama, then they don't have to worry about Perry and Cain, instead Romney becomes the "I love corporations" candidate.

[Larry]

But in the general election if it is Romney v Obama, then they don't have to worry about Perry and Cain, instead Romney becomes the "I love corporations" candidate.

Yes, and Obama becomes The Most Liberal Person in the World.

But the moderate voters will know that both of them are actually rather moderate. (Certainly when compared to what the rest of the GOP has become.)

Again, I'm not saying that it's impossible to paint Romney as a corporate lover.

I'm saying that "Romney can be painted as a corporation lover, therefore we should nominate Cain" is absolute idiocy.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I'm saying that "Romney can be painted as a corporation lover, therefore we should nominate Cain" is absolute idiocy.

Oh I agree completely, but I think this current round of discussion here got kicked off because someone asked why run that Romney ad now, and since it is a Dem PAC ad it is being run now to label Romney as a corporate lover in order to keep Centerists from voting for Romney in the primaries, because they want the extremists to get the nomination for the GOP.

[Larry]

Oh I agree completely, but I think this current round of discussion here got kicked off because someone asked why run that Romney ad now, and since it is a Dem PAC ad it is being run now to label Romney as a corporate lover in order to keep Centerists from voting for Romney in the primaries, because they want the extremists to get the nomination for the GOP.

Wow.

That was both a really logical point and a way to get the thread back on topic.

Thanks.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Wow.

That was both a really logical point and a way to get the thread back on topic.

Thanks.

Even a blind dog finds a bone once and awhile.

[twa]

Could Obama hope to run to the right of Romney? :evilg:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-governor-romney-worked-to-reassure-liberals/2011/11/02/gIQAookxgM_story.html

As governor, Romney worked to reassure liberalsHe would be a “good voice in the party” for their cause, and his moderation on the issue would be “widely written about,” he said, according to detailed notes taken by an officer of the group, NARAL Pro-Choice Massachusetts.

“You need someone like me in Washington,” several participants recalled Romney saying that day in September 2002, an apparent reference to his future ambitions.

Romney made similar assurances to activists for gay rights and the environment, according to people familiar with the discussions, both as a candidate for governor and then in the early days of his term.

The encounters with liberal advocates offer some revealing insights into the ever-evolving ideology of Romney, who as a presidential candidate now espouses the hard-line opposition to abortion that he seemed to disparage less than a decade ago.

Some details of his interactions with liberal activists were first reported in the Los Angeles Times in 2007, when Romney was introducing himself on the national stage.

[Larry]

You mean, in order to become Governor of Massachusetts, Romney actually spoke nicely to people who aren't traditional Republican supporters?

I'm shocked.

(But, if your point is that the Republican base would rather give up their guns that allow this guy to get the nomination, then I agree with you. Things like your post don't hurt Romney among moderates. But they absolutely poison him in the primary.)

[twa]

Is that what you got from that?

[mjah]

Could Obama hope to run to the right of Romney? :evilg:

Mitt said some stuff once?

How nice. Surely he must have meant it. LOL.

[Prosperity]

Could Obama hope to run to the right of Romney? :evilg:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-governor-romney-worked-to-reassure-liberals/2011/11/02/gIQAookxgM_story.html

As governor, Romney worked to reassure liberalsHe would be a “good voice in the party” for their cause, and his moderation on the issue would be “widely written about,” he said, according to detailed notes taken by an officer of the group, NARAL Pro-Choice Massachusetts.

“You need someone like me in Washington,” several participants recalled Romney saying that day in September 2002, an apparent reference to his future ambitions.

Romney made similar assurances to activists for gay rights and the environment, according to people familiar with the discussions, both as a candidate for governor and then in the early days of his term.

The encounters with liberal advocates offer some revealing insights into the ever-evolving ideology of Romney, who as a presidential candidate now espouses the hard-line opposition to abortion that he seemed to disparage less than a decade ago.

Some details of his interactions with liberal activists were first reported in the Los Angeles Times in 2007, when Romney was introducing himself on the national stage.

I wonder what Mitt Romney's stance is on homosexual corporations in the military

[Jumbo]

I'm spending some time re-connecting with family on the WA coast, close to Astoria OR (a beautiful and very cool little town). They have a rather well known clown college (for real) there, and a nephew of mine has a friend who worked it part-time. They have a lot of fun things as you might imagine in their window displays, including many posters and graphics and a window of photos of celebrities who have visited and well-known graduates. This guy want to put pics of all the GOP candidates up, under the "well-known graduates" banner.

[visionary]

Here's one for HH.

http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/those-surprising-huntsman-girls-1706376.story

The Daily Beast, Wednesday, November 2, 2011, 8:27pm (PDT)

By Lloyd Grove and McKay Coppins, The Daily Beast

Mitt Romney is not a personal favorite among certain members of the Jon Huntsman clan. If the former Massachusetts governor manages to win the Republican presidential nomination, it's doubtful whether they'd even support him.

“I don't know,” Mary Anne Huntsman, a 26-year-old piano teacher, muses tentatively.

“Absolutely not!” chimes in her 23-year-old sister, Liddy, a recent college grad hoping to enter the fashion biz. “And I'll tell you my reasons—”

“Is this on the record?” 25-year-old Abby Huntsman interrupts with a worried look, befitting a media-savvy former Good Morning America booker and public- relations handler who, like her sisters, is volunteering full time on her father's campaign.

As usual, Liddy barrels ahead. “If you're looking at someone running for president,” she says, “you want to be able to trust them and know that they have the right intentions and that they have a heart and that they're for the people.

And I think with Romney, I just don't trust him. I don't trust his record. I don't trust his character … I would have a difficult time voting at all.” (Barack Obama attack dog David Plouffe couldn't have put it better himself.)

[visionary]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/03/huntsman-zings-romney-in-web-video/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_politicalticker+%28Blog%3A+Political+Ticker%29

Huntsman zings Romney in web video

Former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman isn't letting up on his barrage of Mitt Romney-aimed insults. A web video released Thursday is the latest of Huntsman's efforts to paint the former governor of Massachusetts as a serial flip-flopper.

The spot opens with coverage of public criticism toward Romney for changing positions.

The news clips are followed by video of the GOP frontrunner addressing the issues of immigration and abortion where he appears to reverse his stance–over a period of time. One clip reflects a younger Romney, compared with some from the current campaign.

"12 million are still here illegally, should be able to sign up for permanent residency or citizenship," he says in one clip.

But in another, "We can't talk about amnesty; we cannot give amnesty to those who have come here illegally."

And the video closes with Romney in his own words, "I'm sorry if I created any confusion in that regard," he says.

[visionary]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/03/romney-offers-specifics-on-spending-cuts/

Romney offers specifics on spending cuts

Posted by

CNN Political Producer Rachel Streitfeld

Exeter, New Hampshire (CNN) - In a speech notable for both its specificity and the warm audience response, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney pledged Thursday to cut federal spending and improve government productivity.

Speaking to an effusive audience of several hundred in New Hampshire, Romney said if elected he would bring a businessman's philosophy to Washington.

He promised to cut $500 billion in federal spending during his first term in office, and said he would cut funding to Amtrak, some foreign aid programs and President Obama's health care plan.

He also said he would send funds for programs including Medicaid back to states to distribute as they see fit, and work to reduce redundancies in federal assistance programs such food stamps and Medicaid.

Romney told the audience he would be forced to make cuts he didn't want to make, but that the nation's long-term fiscal health depended on making difficult decisions.

"There are other programs I like, and I don't want to cut them," he said, adding that Republican leaders needed to be willing to make those tough choices. "It is a moral responsibility to believe in fiscal responsibility. We do and I do."

He said also he would reduce federal employment by 10% through attrition.

[visionary]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/04/poll-obama-and-romney-all-tied-up-in-influential-states/

Poll: Obama and Romney all tied up in influential states

If the presidential election were held today, a new poll reveals that voters would be divided between incumbent President Barack Obama and current GOP frontrunner Mitt Romney.

According to a Gallup poll released Friday, Romney edges out former Godfather's Pizza CEO Herman Cain and Texas Gov. Rick Perry as the more competitive candidate in a hypothetical matchup with President Obama.

In 12 swing states including Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Wisconsin, the first-in-the-nation primary state of New Hampshire, Florida, where the fourth presidential nominating contest is held, and Nevada, which will host the fifth contest when its caucus takes place on Feb. 4, Obama trails former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney by one percentage point, well within the poll's margin of error. Swing state voters are split between the former governor making his second bid for the GOP presidential nomination and the incumbent president 47-46%.

Registered voters nationwide are divided evenly in the poll with 47% saying they would select President Obama and 47% saying they would choose Romney if the presidential election were held today. They survey includes those who are undecided but lean toward one candidate or the other.

Romney fared slightly better than Perry or Cain among voters both nationwide and in swing states.

Across the country, Obama holds a 48-46% margin over Cain, a margin that increases by one percentage point in swing states, where he takes 48% support to Cain's 45%. The survey was conducted before allegations of sexual harassment by Cain during his time at the National Restaurant Association emerged.

[Hersh]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/03/huntsman-zings-romney-in-web-video/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_politicalticker+%28Blog%3A+Political+Ticker%29

The Obama reelection campaign should hire the guy creating these ads. I really believe that Romney's lack of character is going to be his downfall in the general election. How Republicans trust him at all is beyond me.