NoVaO Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Fair enough...But I think it's a decent argument to make if Obama says that they have the same plan. Romeny can just say that he knows the plan better and when and where it works. Obama won't just make the argument that he and Romney have the same plan. He will twist it around in a way that puts Romney on the defensive...mostly about his flip flops on the issue. He'll emphasize the good parts of Obamacare -- he'll use personal examples of people who have been helped by this law, and force Romney to defend why he wants to repeal the good parts of the bill. There are lots of way to put Romney on the defensive with health care by attacking him from the left. It will be much harder for Romney to attack Obama on health care when the model for Obamacare was Romneycare. Doesn't matter if it came at the state or federal level. Both were designed to do the same thing. And I believe Obama's plan has more cost controls in it that Romneycare. The problem is the costs savings are more long term rather than short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 First thing, I do understand the Tea Party, i considered myself one before they went all crazy. Secondly, I'll go to my grave saying they will fall lock in step in the general election to support the republican candidate. That does Obama the most damage, becuase it gets him out of office. Conservatives complain every single election cycle, its nothing new. You know the Repubs had a shot at at least breaking even in the Senate but your tea party was all about purification. They went for ideology over electability. Watch next spring when some long time Republican incumbents lose their primaries. Whatever the tea party might have been when they first popped up in 2009 is nothing what it was in the 2010 election and what it is now. We'll see next fall who will be right but I believe I will be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Over the line Larry. nobody is going to buy that you, the leftist of the left, believes that line of crap. He said, cleverly avoiding trying to come up with one time Obama tried to blame Bush for things that happened six months before he took office. But who needs reality when he can sling labels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 CNN just pointed out that 84% of people pay more taxes under Cain's plan. Not surprising at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 So what you're saying is, Cain would do for Romney what Sarah did for McCain? YES. Romney in 2012 will just be a repeat of Mccain in 08 and Dole in 96; just the margin of losing won't be as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Obama won't just make the argument that he and Romney have the same plan. He will twist it around in a way that puts Romney on the defensive...mostly about his flip flops on the issue. He'll emphasize the good parts of Obamacare -- he'll use personal examples of people who have been helped by this law, and force Romney to defend why he wants to repeal the good parts of the bill.There are lots of way to put Romney on the defensive with health care by attacking him from the left. It will be much harder for Romney to attack Obama on health care when the model for Obamacare was Romneycare. Doesn't matter if it came at the state or federal level. Both were designed to do the same thing. And I believe Obama's plan has more cost controls in it that Romneycare. The problem is the costs savings are more long term rather than short term. Good point...it will be interesting to see if/how Romney responds to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Well, I think that what it will take against Obama is an "adult". Not an old man, not a loon. Somebody who can capture the same audience that Obama has and not look weak to that audience.Romney looks pretty good against these folks, as well as Paul. I might like Paul's ideals a little bit more but he'll look like McCain against Obama. I don't think that Romney will. He'll put up a fight and he's fairly centrist on some things to garner some interest from the middle. I don't honestly think that I'm dumb. Compared to some posters here, perhaps. Compared to voting Americans, I'm probably pretty smart. I don't think, when it comes down to it, that America will see "Obamacare" (I hate that term) any different than "Romneycare" (also a stupid term that I just made up). I don't think that Romney would be able to claim that his plan is any better than Obama's because "Obamacare" hasn't even been enacted largley (AFAIK). Nobody really knows what negative effects that "Obamacare" will have on the economy. All we know is that republicans hate socialized health care. Paul would not be another Mccain. Paul is so different from Mccain I dont even know where to begin. Age is about the only thing I can say they're similar on. Paul would be lethal against Obama. Paul's influence with independents would sweep the rug right out from under Obama. Running Paul takes an Obama strength and turns it into a Republican strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 If his plan means I won't be able to claim interest on the house I'm buying this month there is no way in hell I'll vote for him. Nope. Negative, no way no how. And don't forget, he'll put a 9% tax on all new homes (but not used ones, apparently). Should do wonders for the construction industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Quick....everybody start buying used food! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogNose Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 CNN just pointed out that 84% of people pay more taxes under Cain's plan. Yeah it hurt a lot of people in Sim City too. BTW, Sim City now $9.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Paul would be lethal against Obama. Paul's influence with independents would sweep the rug right out from under Obama. . Ron Paul has influence with independents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 CNN just pointed out that 84% of people pay more taxes under Cain's plan. Wondering how they could say that. What I've read is that Cain's tax plan is about two pages of vague slogans. Hard to attack a plan for not having detains AND come up with reliable numbers. (But not in Amrican politics.). Got any kind of a link to some actual specifics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Wondering how they could say that. What I've read is that Cain's tax plan is about two pages of vague slogans. Hard to attack a plan for not having detains AND come up with reliable numbers. (But not in Amrican politics.). Got any kind of a link to some actual specifics? They didn'y give a link on tv...maybe on their website. They were citing a tax policy group, I think. Seemed respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 They didn'y give a link on tv...maybe on their website. They were citing a tax policy group, I think. Seemed respected. I saw the same but can't remember the study either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaO Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 They didn'y give a link on tv...maybe on their website. They were citing a tax policy group, I think. Seemed respected. Krugman's blog has it... http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/18/huntsman-throws-barbs-from-new-hampshire/ Huntsman throws barbs from New HampshireThough former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman didn't join his GOP opponents on stage Tuesday night, he did open his dueling New Hampshire town hall by unleashing a string of pointed one-liners. Huntsman, who is pinning his presidential hopes on New Hampshire, boycotted the CNN Western Republican debate in Nevada to show his disapproval of that state's caucus date. While the other Republican hopefuls met in Las Vegas, Huntsman hosted a town hall in Hopkinton. ------- Everyone on CNN seems to think Perry did well. Will Republicans nationwide agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 "Libya is in Africa" is trending worldwide on twitter. Thanks Dr. Bachmann. Per @GarrettNBCNews, Wayne Newton said in spin room: he came to debate ready to support Perry but didn't like attacks so now he's 4 Romney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm watching the beginning of the debate again, checking out body language...interesting. (I missed the first few minutes earlier) Paul didn't seem happy to be next to Santorum.... ---------- Post added October-18th-2011 at 11:08 PM ---------- I was just thinking, they showed a lot of the arguments between Romney and Perry and such after the debate...but they didn't really replay any of the weird/crazy stuff Perry or Bachman said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Everyone on CNN seems to think Perry did well. Will Republicans nationwide agree? he gets a passing grade here http://legalinsurrection.com/ it was a entertaining 'debate',if thats what ya want to call it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Wondering how they could say that. What I've read is that Cain's tax plan is about two pages of vague slogans. Hard to attack a plan for not having detains AND come up with reliable numbers. (But not in Amrican politics.). Got any kind of a link to some actual specifics? What numbers did you need? 9% flat tax on income. 9% sales tax on all NEW goods. The only argument they can really make is that non-rich people can buy used items. The ultimate trickle down. The problem I have with it is that the bottom third of income earners are going to see a literal 18% decrease in buying power for everything that isn't used. 9% less in their check and 9% more at the register. If he CHANGES his plan then that's different. The plan on HIS OWN SITE says 9% flat and 9% sales tax on new items. I take him at his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 he gets a passing grade herehttp://legalinsurrection.com/ it was a entertaining 'debate',if thats what ya want to call it After tonight, I think I'd vote for Ron Paul before Perry. lol. Paul actually made the more sense of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 We'll see the polls in a few days through a week on what folks thought. I'm going to guess this is where Romney actually gains a little bit, Cain drops some. Perry drops further. Maybe Paul rises a smidge. Bachmann and Santorium SHOULD drop over the next month to no longer be invited. But I'm guessing only Santorium will be voted from the tribe. Bachmann will survive to be crazy another day. One note on Bachmann though, I think her husband did an excellent job designing and tailoring her outfit. Very modern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 After tonight, I think I'd vote for Ron Paul before Perry. lol.Paul actually made the more sense of the two. Sorry twa, Perry is OVER. No chance he gets the nomination. Ron Paul? He has been over. No offense, but he comes off poorly to me. If my choices were Paul or Perry, I would have to flip the switch for Perry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Sorry twa, Perry is OVER. No chance he gets the nomination.Ron Paul? He has been over. No offense, but he comes off poorly to me. If my choices were Paul or Perry, I would have to flip the switch for Perry. To be fair, I was exaggerating to prove a point lol Paul does bring up a lot of good issues. I'm not sure I could ever vote for him though. He just takes everything too far. And he's not very presidential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 After tonight, I think I'd vote for Ron Paul before Perry. lol.Paul actually made the more sense of the two. Paul has made sense to me for decades,and I would vote for him first as well(and have many times :pfft:) I don't believe Paul has a shot at the nomination though it ain't over till it's it's over Chipwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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