thebluefood Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 With the most recent thread on the mishaps created by members of the Catholic Church, I thought it would be appropriate to discuss how it can get back on the right track. The Church is a very uneasy with change. VERY uneasy. But these are desperate times and radical changes maybe necessary. What do you think the Catholic Church needs to do it fix what ails it. and how should they go about it? This is geared primarily toward Catholics, but also fellow Protestants. A lot of you not Christians will want to get your say, too, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Dissolve the whole thing because whoever is eventually in charge will become corrupt. Power to one person or a small group of people never works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Fl Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Before you reform, a full scale investigation from an outside authority needs to happen. Imo, no amount of re-arranging the deck chairs will help the problem until the people who need to be removed are removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I fully expect this to be the most informative and objective thread in the history of ES. The Catholic Church thinks in terms of decades and centuries, so expecting change in terms of months or years is not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The first thing they could do would be to allow female priests and allow priests to marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Change the Catholic Church? wow, now that is dreaming. Hold the church responsible that will bring about change, oh wait they are their own country. Did you ask yourself where the money for babies went? The church probably profited from this scheme that involved the government. A church hurting kids is not one I will enter to feel closer to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The first thing they could do would be to allow female priests and allow priests to marry. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I fully expect this to be the most informative and objective thread in the history of ES.The Catholic Church thinks in terms of decades and centuries, so expecting change in terms of months or years is not realistic. exACTLY. the plodding rate of change in the catholic church is frustrating when you have an issue you want addressed YESTERDAY (child molestation, female priests, take your flavor) but that plodding nature, and inabliltiy to rush into matters is also what enables an institution to survive for 2000 years. it is difficult to move a 1 billion person, 2000 year old buracreacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Dissolve the whole thing because whoever is eventually in charge will become corrupt. Power to one person or a small group of people never works out. "Tell me about it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The first thing they could do would be to allow female priests and allow priests to marry. Completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I can't help but keep thinking that this is just a thinly veiled anti-Catholic rant in the guise of an open discussion. Fix the failings in your own protestant ranks before you go embarking on the unsolicited reform of other people's religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I can't help but keep thinking that this is just a thinly veiled anti-Catholic rant in the guise of an open discussion. Fix the failings in your own protestant ranks before you go embarking on the unsolicited reform of other people's religions. Woah, woah, woah...let's not go nuts here. I'm a firm supporter of the Catholic Church. I hate the fact they're getting so much bad publicity lately. I don't know much about the inner workings of the Church and since there's an obvious problem, I want to see what people, *especially* Catholics have to say about reforming the Church. And don't forget: we protestants don't have "ranks." We're separate, independent denominations with different ideas on theology. What one denomination does doesn't necessarily reflect on another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Before you reform, a full scale investigation from an outside authority needs to happen. Imo, no amount of re-arranging the deck chairs will help the problem until the people who need to be removed are removed. This is all I've been saying. They obviously won't out the bad elements on their own, and it must be done. Crimes against children.. can there be anything more heinous? Get that out, and get the church to actively assist in apprehending these freaks when they're discovered. I'm under no illusion that they can stop them from getting in. But when found. turn them over. Don't hide them. Don't shuffle them along. Don't hope it's only a passing phase, or whatever justification is used. A child molester is evil, bottom line. And IMO, any church of God simply can't abide it. IMO, that mandate has to come from the people of the church. And IMO, the loudest way to speak in such an institution is with money. Or the lack thereof. As someone said in the other thread, he donates becuase his church has a building fund. That's all well and good and perfectly honorable. But as a parishioner (sorry if it's the improer term), your power is rather limited in scope of changing this problem. But if your priest isn't getting his building fund money, he may speak to his cardinal (Again, sorry,, i dont know the exact order of ranks, if the cardinal isn't his direct boss, apologies), and his cardinal may then speak to his next up... and if this happens nationwide.. worldwide,, then maybe they listen. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I know at my Church, and other Cathoic Churches in my area, they are in dire need of Priests. Allowing Females to be priests, and allowing current priests to marry would go a long way towards curbing that shortage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Before you reform, a full scale investigation from an outside authority needs to happen. Imo, no amount of re-arranging the deck chairs will help the problem until the people who need to be removed are removed. This sounds like the most reasonable and effective mode to at least start reformation. The Vatican needs to bite the bullet and allow independent investigators to hunt out the rats and clean house. It will probably takes decades, but it will be worth it. I maybe a Protestant, but I believe the Catholic Church is worth saving and fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I know at my Church, and other Cathoic Churches in my area, they are in dire need of Priests. Allowing Females to be priests, and allowing current priests to marry would go a long way towards curbing that shortage. The way Catholicism is going these days, that's not going to fix things. The problem is that Catholic families have become more secularized. They push their kids toward college, but very very few push any of their boys to the cloth. In the past it was a way to serve God. But that's partially the reason we're in our current mess, too many kids who didn't want to be priests joined the seminary for lack of options, the wrong reasons (a refuge) or at the behest of family. It takes a big sacrifice on the part of the individual and of the parents—who doesn't want a grandkid? This suggestion, women as priests . . . it goes against church tradition. Things are cyclical, this won't be the first and last time that the church will have a shortage of priests. It's a bit audacious to think that we humans should go about fixing God's church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Before you reform, a full scale investigation from an outside authority needs to happen. Imo, no amount of re-arranging the deck chairs will help the problem until the people who need to be removed are removed. I agree, they really need to have Christian accountability, bring in respected investigators from some of the worldwide Christian denominations (Lutheran, Presbyterian, Anglican, Methodist) to look at all of the problems and offer some solutions, but this has to be done with openness and that has not been a strong suit for the Catholic church. The reason I suggest other Christian churches is because at least that way there can be some trust that they mean well in what they are doing as opposed to a secular group that may just want to expose them. Now, do I think this is likely? Not on your life. Pope John Paul II despised the Protestant churches and saw us as being separated brethren that were not on equal standing in terms of the church nor legitimacy, have I seen anything different from Benedict? No. We aren't seen as equals, and the Pope and their church hierarchy is near absolute. The problem is that in their self absurdness they are causing their own downfall. ---------- Post added October-18th-2011 at 02:49 PM ---------- Change the Catholic Church? wow, now that is dreaming. That's what they said prior to Vatican II, and yet change they did, granted it only took 500 years for them to listen to Martin Luther, but hey they finally came around. Hold the church responsible that will bring about change, oh wait they are their own country. Did you ask yourself where the money for babies went? The church probably profited from this scheme that involved the government. A church hurting kids is not one I will enter to feel closer to God. Alright, let's stop the attack, this is (at least from what I understand) supposed to be about positive ideas that could be done, not bash them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 It's really sad to hear John Paul II saw us that way, ASF. I always admired him; but his apparent view on Protestantism is absolutely misguided. It was my impression Catholics and Protestants were closer than that to bridging the gaps that have seperated us for so long. If this is how the higher ups in the Catholic Church see us, I hope they soon reconsider that stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Fl Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 ASF I appreciate the fact that you want other Christian churches involved, but I believe we are way passed that now. I was calling for a complete criminal investigation (even as unrealistic as that seems). I don't even know who would head it up. FBI? Interpol? United Nations? (obviously I don't know anything about international law so I don't even know if what I'm suggesting is possible) You're right the church isn't very open with things, so if the entity coming after them doesn't have the muscle to force compliance, then the effort may be in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 It's really sad to hear John Paul II saw us that way, ASF. I always admired him; but his apparent view on Protestantism is absolutely misguided. It was my impression Catholics and Protestants were closer than that to bridging the gaps that have seperated us for so long. If this is how the higher ups in the Catholic Church see us, I hope they soon reconsider that stance. Yeah, it was a shock to me when I first heard about the way he felt, but then when you believe that you are the one and only true church in the very truest sense of catholic (interpreted as universal) church, then anyone outside of that church is not the church at all, hence the idea of excommunication. What's interesting though is that this attitude seems restricted to the higher ups, as I've worked with several Catholic priests who were fully ecumenical in their ministries and service with Protestants. Heck, one priest even served me communion and he knew I was a Methodist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yeah, it was a shock to me when I first heard about the way he felt, but then when you believe that you are the one and only true church in the very truest sense of catholic (interpreted as universal) church, then anyone outside of that church is not the church at all, hence the idea of excommunication. What's interesting though is that this attitude seems restricted to the higher ups, as I've worked with several Catholic priests who were fully ecumenical in their ministries and service with Protestants. Heck, one priest even served me communion and he knew I was a Methodist. Yeah, all the Catholics I've met have ecumenical views on the faith. The current group of Cardinals aren't getting any younger, though. Hopefully, with a new generation will come a new age in the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 This suggestion, women as priests . . . it goes against church tradition. Things are cyclical, this won't be the first and last time that the church will have a shortage of priests. It's a bit audacious to think that we humans should go about fixing God's church. Audacious to think that we humans should go about fixing God's church.......which was started by, built by, and maintained by humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 This suggestion, women as priests . . . it goes against church tradition. Things are cyclical, this won't be the first and last time that the church will have a shortage of priests. It's a bit audacious to think that we humans should go about fixing God's church. Having the mass in the vernacular (language of the people) was against church tradition too. How do you view Vatican II if not humans "fixing God's church"? What's more is that such an attitude seems a bit strange since God put his people as leaders within the church to fix things and make them better, that's why the church leadership has authority in the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I Pope John Paul II despised the Protestant churches and saw us as being separated brethren that were not on equal standing in terms of the church nor legitimacy, have I seen anything different from Benedict? No. We aren't seen as equals, and the Pope and their church hierarchy is near absolute. To be fair, isn't that pretty much how the overwhelming majority of Protestant sects view the Catholic Church too? Everyone who thinks they know the "True Way to God" thinks everyone else is less legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Do I really need to draw a distinction for a theologian like yourself, ASF? "Fixing" or "it was time"? Divinely called to do things or imposing human timelines on things spiritual. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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