This team is still 2 very good offseasons from contention

[TD_washingtonredskins]

SHF, I think you're right...but think maybe we're one off-season away. As we look back on years 1-2 of Shanahan (in hindsight of course), I think we'll see year 1 as a wasted year but with Shanahan laying down the law. I think we'll see this year (year 2) as the year we got our defense moving in the right direction and started beefing up the roster. Hopefully after next year, we'll see that the offense is getting younger and gelling.

At least we have those younger players in house now! We have Helu, Austin, Paul, Hankerson, Hightower, Young, Davis, and Paulsen who can step in whenever we decide we have to make those types of changes. Even if we just let these guys develop in limited roles for an entire year, at least we aren't starting fresh with them in 2012 when they may be asked to take on a bigger role. If half of these guys can be regular contributors, we might see a relatively big uptick once they get regular playing time in 2012 combined with a new QB and a couple other upgrades.

The D is set (schematically and with most of its personnel) and the O is probably this off-season's project. I'm still very excited about this regime and the direction (as I realize most of us are).

[Mursilis]

They can be ready to go, but you aren't going to contend for a Superbowl with them as rookies.

Ben Roethlisberger was 13-0 as a regular season rookie starter, and the Steelers got to the AFC championship game. You CAN contend for a SB with a rookie QB. Big Ben won the SB his very next year.

The best QB in the NFL today sat on the bench for 3 years. The other best QB in the NFL sat on the bench for a year.

There is something to moving a QB along slowly

And Peyton Manning played from Day 1. He's done OK, right? Rodgers would've been good his first or second year, but he was stuck behind Farve. Players learn to play by playing.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

San Fran has been drafting well since 2007. This San Fran team was 4 drafts in the making.

They never had competent coaching until now. If we had 4 straight terrific drafts, I would agree with you

Every NFL team is good QB play and a playmaker away from contention. That playmaker can be anywhere. Chicago made it to a Super Bowl largely because they had the best kick return units in football history one year.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Every NFL team is good QB play and a playmaker away from contention. That playmaker can be anywhere. Chicago made it to a Super Bowl largely because they had the best kick return units in football history one year.

Sure I agree with that. But there aren't severe deficiencies in each level of the team.

We have dramatically improved. Hell we could get it done next year, I just don't think it happens that fast because you can't fill so many needs right away.

But the 49ers took 4 years to get to this level of talent. Hell, they had talent last year but Singletary was a piss poor head coach

[authentic]

I'm still very excited about this regime and the direction (as I realize most of us are).

I am as well. I just pray to God that we can finally draft a legit, franchise QB.

-Jeff George

-Tony Banks

-Shane Matthews

-Patrick Ramsey

-Mark Brunell

-Jason Campbell

-Donovan Mcnabb(past his prime)

-Rex Grossman

-John Beck

...........When are we ever going to succeed at this position?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

They can be ready to go, but you aren't going to contend for a Superbowl with them as rookies.

The best QB in the NFL today sat on the bench for 3 years. The other best QB in the NFL sat on the bench for a year.

There is something to moving a QB along slowly

Tom Brady won a Super Bowl in his second season.

Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl in his second season.

Manning was the best QB in football (arguably) by his second season.

Rivers and Rodgers probably would have been stars from the start but they were tossed into weird situations (behind Brees and Favre).

20 years ago, it probably helped to "season" a rookie QB a little. Now, you just toss them out there and see what happens. Quarterbacking - like physics - now seems to be a young man's game.

[Goingforburgundy]

I posted this in another earlier today.

*It all begins and ends with the QB. In this league, you get only as far as your QB can take you. It has been since 2000 Trent Dilfler and the Ravens since a mediocre/game managing QB has won the super bowl. The 2000 ravens had one of the greatest defenses in the history of the NFL.

*I firmly believe that we still have a mediocre AT BEST OLine. Kory Lich should be a weak link not a strength. We still need 3 starters with Monty being the primary backup for the Centers and guards.

*The RBs I am not worried about. Once Helu picks up his blocking I think he will be a typical Shanny RB. ATV and THT are perfect fits for Short yardage and 3rd down back.

*WRs we have right now are not up to snuff. Santana cant do it on his own. AA is no more than a deep threat and the rookies I see no better than being number 2 with the hopes of Hankerson being a league best number 2 or a low end number 1. Still need to find a top 10 WR in the league a la Fitz, AJ, Megatron.

*TEs. Even without Cooley we are firmly set for the future pending we sign Sleepy. If we dont we are REALLY hurting here for the next 2-4 years at the position as I see Cooley being done. He is a fraction of what he once was. I really wish we traded him prior to last season.

I still think we still have some holes on Defense as well. Rocky might walk this year with how well he is playing. London is one injury (I know he has never been injured but neither has Peyton Manning) from retireing and we have literally no one to back them up. Still need a Shutdown CB and probably a true NT so we can slide Cofield over to end.

And I still dont see how people would rather have a lower draft pick just to feel better about the season for a wild card apperence when we ALL know this team is not ready for a championship.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Tom Brady won a Super Bowl in his second season.

Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl in his second season.

Manning was the best QB in football (arguably) by his second season.

Rivers and Rodgers probably would have been stars from the start but they were tossed into weird situations (behind Brees and Favre).

20 years ago' date=' it probably helped to "season" a rookie QB a little. Now, you just toss them out there and see what happens. Quarterbacking - like physics - now seems to be a young man's game.[/quote']

I am not disputing we could start a rookie QB from week 1 next year. I do think it takes a few years for a QB to understand the complexity of NFL offenses and defenses and become elite

Was Brady elite for that 2001 SB team? Big Ben? Peyton was fairly elite in 1999, but everyone knew he was a totally different QB then had come along since Elway.

If people think we are going to win a SB in 2012 behind a rookie QB, thats fine. I don't think it happens until 2013 at the earliest, and that is if everything goes right.

[bigdoublebass]

No, we just suck, look at the 49rs Harbough came in and is winning games. Also the chiefs last season, the new coach came into a horrible situation and had success.

[SWFLSkins]

I think the Redskins are just one more good offseason of being ready to seriously compete depending of course on the QB issue. Getting a rookie QB may make this a three year project. I do think that the Skins need a top notch corner, Hall ain't it. I also think a problem exist still at OL. Those three areas must be address. And continue to bring in competitors at every position.

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 10:01 AM ----------

No, we just suck, look at the 49rs Harbough came in and is winning games. Also the chiefs last season, the new coach came into a horrible situation and had success.

Consider their divisions.

[DM72]

We're ALWAYS atleast 2 years from being good.

[Goingforburgundy]

I am not disputing we could start a rookie QB from week 1 next year. I do think it takes a few years for a QB to understand the complexity of NFL offenses and defenses and become elite

Was Brady elite for that 2001 SB team? Big Ben? Peyton was fairly elite in 1999, but everyone knew he was a totally different QB then had come along since Elway.

If people think we are going to win a SB in 2012 behind a rookie QB, thats fine. I don't think it happens until 2013 at the earliest, and that is if everything goes right.

I have been saying since the draft we are looking at the 15-16 season before we are truely elite.

[SkinsHokieFan]

No, we just suck, look at the 49rs Harbough came in and is winning games. Also the chiefs last season, the new coach came into a horrible situation and had success.

I really don't think that people understand the 49ers have good talent across the board, being the result of excellent drafting since 2007.

The problem last year was Singletary was a terrible head coach. Now that they have a legit head coach they are playing to the level they were capable of last year

[USS Redskins]

Good post. You nailed it.

Wish I had the patience to wait it out. I will but its gonna be bad - I will need to up my blood pressure medicine.

The QB position is the biggest problem.. I would rather have a rookie QB this year - or better yet - Last year - learning the offense. Now the team maybe will get one in the next draft and watch for 2 or maybe 3 years as he learns the system.

I blame Shanny for this as well as the McNabb disaster set this team back farther than they were. Bad move worsened by not making the deal to get a QB in 2011.

[skinfan2k]

We're ALWAYS atleast 2 years from being good.

because we keep changing coaches and philosophies. we have never had a GM to keep one system like other successful teams like the eagles, patriots, packers, steelers

[Goingforburgundy]

No, we just suck, look at the 49rs Harbough came in and is winning games. Also the chiefs last season, the new coach came into a horrible situation and had success.

The divisions and remember Zorn and Josh Mcdaniels were 6-2 their first years too. Look at the chiefs this year.

[War Paint]

I don't think we are that far away. We added a lot this past off-season. We only need one more off-season until we are loaded. I think a lot are being overly dramatic over yesterday's loss. We are still 3-2. We should beat the Panthers next week and be 4-2. We are in contention this year. Rex was the weak link on the team and hopefully he will be replaced. We don't know if Beck will light it up or if he will suck, but he will probably produce better than Grossman and will not turn the ball over all the time. That will be an upgrade at QB, which will allow us to keep doing what we are doing, which is winning more than losing.

[hunterx]

San Fran has been drafting well since 2007. This San Fran team was 4 drafts in the making.

They never had competent coaching until now. If we had 4 straight terrific drafts, I would agree with you

Speaking about the overall draft, and not just 1 or 2 players, I would say this year was our first very strong draft, right?

Going back to the draft with Fred Davis, here list of players who have contributed and are still on the team:

2008:

Fred Davis

Kareem Moore

Rob Jackson

7 Others drafted, off the roster

2009:

Brian Orakpo

Kevin Barnes

4 Others drafted, off the roster

2010:

Trent Williams

Perry Riley

Terrance Austin

Eric Cook

2 Others drafted, off the roster

2011:

This years draft is fresh in everyones head. All players are on the roster, whether active or on the practice squad.

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 10:07 AM ----------

I don't think we are that far away. We added a lot this past off-season. We only need one more off-season until we are loaded. I think a lot are being overly dramatic over yesterday's loss. We are still 3-2. We should beat the Panthers next week and be 4-2. We are in contention this year. Rex was the weak link on the team and hopefully he will be replaced. We don't know if Beck will light it up or if he will suck, but he will probably produce better than Grossman and will not turn the ball over all the time. That will be an upgrade at QB, which will allow us to keep doing what we are doing, which is winning more than losing.

Every game can be defined as a must-win for various reasons. We could definitely use this as a confidence builder, and Beck needs it (if he starts) to show he can "manage" the offense without being a superstar. We need our Trent Dilfer.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Sure I agree with that. But there aren't severe deficiencies in each level of the team.

We have dramatically improved. Hell we could get it done next year, I just don't think it happens that fast because you can't fill so many needs right away.

But the 49ers took 4 years to get to this level of talent. Hell, they had talent last year but Singletary was a piss poor head coach

Eh...the 49ers are finally using their talent correctly and do not have an imbecile coaching them. And they still have one of the worst starting QBs in football. I don't think coaching is THAT important in the NFL, but having an incompetent (like Singletary or - God bless him - Zorn) running things is not good.

And where do you see all these great deficincies? The defense is certainly good enough to contend. If I had to hold a lead in the 4th Quarter, I would trust our defense well before I had to trust Philly's or Dallas's. (And everyone was on all fours for Dallas' D this week). The running game is goodish as well. We could upgrade the interior of the O-line, but what team couldn't upgrade its O-line?

We are lacking a playmaker at WR, but those seem to emerge organically. Where the hell did Mike Wallace or Stevie Johnson come from?

We are somewhat hopeless at QB and I still don't like our secondary- and in the modern NFL, those are the two worst areas to be subpar in.

Still, I respect your opinion a lot, but you are hopelessly stuck in 1993 and think that the only way to build a contender is to have a staggering amount of young talent come together at the same time. That's just not how it works.

Hell, look at Detroit. Detroit is good right now because they have 3 superstar talents coming into their primes at the same time. That offensive line is mostly the same line that went 0-16. They still don't really have a running game. And their back seven is nothing to write home about. I think the Skins are much closer to Detroit than you think. Let's suppose that Kerrigan and Orakpo become perennial all pros. At that point, your defense just needs competency at the other positions. It's still far too difficult for the Skins to score points, as has been the case since - God - 2000 maybe.

Seriously, if you traded Fitzpatrick and Steve Johnson for Grossman and Moss how good are we and how bad are the Bills?

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 09:10 AM ----------

If people think we are going to win a SB in 2012 behind a rookie QB, thats fine. I don't think it happens until 2013 at the earliest, and that is if everything goes right.

Eh...my goal is not to win a Super Bowl. Winning a Super Bowl is really hard to do. All you can do is contend for a Super Bowl. And I absolutely think this team can contend for a Super Bowl with a rookie QB. Hell, the Jets nearly made it the last two years with Mark Freaking Sanchez.

[santanathegreat]

I think we're actually one good offseason.

I think our least effective starters are Kariker, Montgomery, and whoever are QB is. I think a healthy Jenkins can take care of Kariker. Montgomery isn't terrible but I'm not sure he's the answer longterm. We'll see if Beck can be what we hope he can be in the future.

Although we aren't bad at receiver, we still don't have a Fitzgerald/Johnson/Dez Bryant-level talent. I would love to add that type of playmaker at receiver. I also would love to bring in a shutdown corner to move Hall to the 2nd receiver (I really like Josh Wilson too btw). Priority would be QB and receiver as of now. Hopefully we can have 2 good years of Beck, and then a transition to our new QB.

Hope and pray Beck does well enough to buy time to groom another guy.

[Special K]

Good post SHF. We aren't there yet (and I didn't believe we were anyway ) and I agree that we are a couple good drafting offseasons away from serious contention for anything. I don't think we suck, and I know we will compete every week, but we have gaps in several key positions (which you indicated in the OP). Yes, yesterday's game was frustrating to watch, particularly after the BS-momentum-changing-roughing-the-passer call from the refs, then the complete sucktitude of Grossman. However, it's important to step back and remember Danny just got his act together less than 2 years ago and brought in Shannahan and handed control to him. I can only hope Snyder isn't as impatient as so many in our fan base seem to be...like the dingalings even throwing around the notion of reverting to crap by bringing Rabach back.

[trez]

Skins need three OL, QB and a big WR.

[War Paint]

No, we just suck, look at the 49rs Harbough came in and is winning games. Also the chiefs last season, the new coach came into a horrible situation and had success.

Josh McDaniels and Jim Zorn say hi. The 49ers may continue their success, but I can see them cooling off. That said, their division is so terrible, that even if they do have some sort of collapse, they will still win their division most likely.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Eh...the 49ers are finally using their talent correctly and do not have an imbecile coaching them. And they still have one of the worst starting QBs in football. I don't think coaching is THAT important in the NFL, but having an incompetent (like Singletary or - God bless him - Zorn) running things is not good.

Agree. I thought the 49ers were going to win 10 games last year. Singletary was just a complete imbecile

And where do you see all these great deficincies? The defense is certainly good enough to contend. If I had to hold a lead in the 4th Quarter, I would trust our defense well before I had to trust Philly's or Dallas's. (And everyone was on all fours for Dallas' D this week). The running game is goodish as well. We could upgrade the interior of the O-line, but what team couldn't upgrade its O-line?

'

On D- NT, ILB and CB. Teams can run the ball on us, and we still struggle to play man D. The lack of consistant pass rush against bad o-lines is stunning (how many sacks did we get against Dallas and Philly, compared to other teams)

The D is clearly improved, but the holes still make it vulnerable to not being able to get the ball back with 2:47 left and 2 timeouts.

On offense- RT, G, C, WR, QB. I think JB is meh at best, our interior, while improved, is still meh and inconsistant. WR and QB is pretty obvious

We are lacking a playmaker at WR, but those seem to emerge organically. Where the hell did Mike Wallace or Stevie Johnson come from?

Agree. Niles Paul could be that guy with his speed

We are somewhat hopeless at QB and I still don't like our secondary- and in the modern NFL, those are the two worst areas to be subpar in.

I agree

Still, I respect your opinion a lot, but you are hopelessly stuck in 1993 and think that the only way to build a contender is to have a staggering amount of young talent come together at the same time. That's just not how it works.

I don't think its a staggering amount of young talent, but you need some young talent. Mediocre drafts from 2007-2010 are showing themselves now, which is why our O is still old.

Hell, look at Detroit. Detroit is good right now because they have 3 superstar talents coming into their primes at the same time. That offensive line is mostly the same line that went 0-16. They still don't really have a running game. And their back seven is nothing to write home about. I think the Skins are much closer to Detroit than you think. Let's suppose that Kerrigan and Orakpo become perennial all pros. At that point, your defense just needs competency at the other positions. It's still far too difficult for the Skins to score points, as has been the case since - God - 2000 maybe.

Detroit has made some very nice picks, including guys like Pettigrew and Best. I said it in 2009, I would have traded our whole roster for theirs.

Seriously, if you traded Fitzpatrick and Steve Johnson for Grossman and Moss how good are we and how bad are the Bills?

You are right. I think in a thread last week I said we are a Jennings and Rodgers away from being the Packers.

The thing is, we don't have Jennings or Rodgers, or Fitzpatrick and Johnson. And there is no gurantee that we will have those type of guys, which makes upgrading at all spots that much more important.

If we are finally blessed with a QB and playmaker, we can change the tenor of our discussions

[Pick6]

I am as well. I just pray to God that we can finally draft a legit, franchise QB.

-Jeff George

-Tony Banks

-Shane Matthews

-Patrick Ramsey

-Mark Brunell

-Jason Campbell

-Donovan Mcnabb(past his prime)

-Rex Grossman

-John Beck

...........When are we ever going to succeed at this position?

I think it is reasonable for this team to go after Landry Jones. Luck is not going to be available and if the Colts have the opportunity to take him they will. Jones to me looks like he will do great in the NFL. I would be happy.