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This team is still 2 very good offseasons from contention


SkinsHokieFan

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The worst thing about the 2-0 and 3-1 start is that it raises expectations to unrealistic levels in DC because the Redskins have been so bad for so long. This team's 3-1 start is more along the lines of the 2003 team (easy early schedule, got some good breaks) as opposed to the 2005 team (which ended up at 5-6 after 3-0 and running the table)

What makes the 2005 team different from 2003 and 2011 is talent. You had very good talent on defense, where a whole bunch of guys had their best years, and pretty good talent on offense with a QB who had one of his best seasons in years.

This team is still 2 good offseaons away from having the requisite talent to compete. If you read the comprehensive draft thread, the needs are obvious.

QB, ILB, RT, G/C, CB, WR

We don't need to go into the reasons why each of those are needed because it is fairly obvious to me.

That is potentially 7 upgrades that will be needed and most likely includes a rookie QB in that next year, which sets the time table back for being a contender.

What everyone should hope for the rest of the season is to see T Williams, Fred Davis, Orakpo, Landry and Kerrigan take their game up a notch and improvements from guys like Austin, Paul, Helu, Nield, and Cook.

It is going to be very tough to compete with the personell on offense and what makes it worse is how many late 20s, early 30s guys we have out there. An overhaul is still needed on that side of the ball.

Essentially on offense we are 2 years away. Think of this being Denver late 2005 where Shanny had Plummer. He re-tooled that offense in the 2006 and 2007 drafts (Cutler, Royal, Hillis, B-Marsh, Clady) and had that offense as elite by 2008.

Luckily our D is just one good offseason away from taking the next level

Patience fans

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I agree that I don't see next years starting QB on the roster. But please, before people keep on this "rebuilding" or revert back to "suck for luck", we threw 4 ints and was down 20-0 at one point in this game and only lost by a td. Philly did not score in the second half.

I felt Rex gave us the best chance to win, and I was wrong. That does not mean the season is over. Our division is still weak as is our schedule. If we don't try to take advantage of it something like this this year, what the hell are we waiting for???

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I agree that I don't see next years starting QB on the roster. But please, before people keep on this "rebuilding" or revert back to "suck for luck", we threw 4 ints and was down 20-0 at one point in this game and only lost by a td. Philly did not score in the second half.

I felt Rex gave us the best chance to win, and I was wrong. That does not mean the season is over. Our division is still weak as is our schedule. If we don't try to take advantage of it something like this this year, what the hell are we waiting for???

Nobody is saying revert back to "tanking the season"

This team is still going out there and will compete every single week. Thats one thing they do well, they don't fold, they compete (as evidenced in the 2nd half yesterday)

Simply put, the talent isn't good enough to garner much more then 6-8 wins. I would rather get those 6-8 wins with Austin, Paul, Hankerson, Helu, Nield getting reps as opposed to Gaffney, Stallworth, Hightower, Carriker, getting reps

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 09:12 AM ----------

All of your points are valid and most likely correct. But we have been hearing patience for a very long time and I think that is the cause of the frustration boiling over.

I think thats part of the problem with the fan base. We lack patience and Dan Snyder is just a reflection of that

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That is potentially 7 upgrades that will be needed and most likely includes a rookie QB in that next year, which sets the time table back for being a contender.

Why do people continue to think this? Clearly, some rookies are ready to play their first season. Newton, Dalton, Gabbert, and McCoy (last year) would all be upgrades over Grossman. I'll bet Luck will be ready to go next year too. This 'learning for a few years on the bench' crap is so 1980's.

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Why do people continue to think this? Clearly, some rookies are ready to play their first season. Newton, Dalton, Gabbert, and McCoy (last year) would all be upgrades over Grossman. I'll bet Luck will be ready to go next year too. This 'learning for a few years on the bench' crap is so 1980's.

They can be ready to go, but you aren't going to contend for a Superbowl with them as rookies.

The best QB in the NFL today sat on the bench for 3 years. The other best QB in the NFL sat on the bench for a year.

There is something to moving a QB along slowly

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They can be ready to go, but you aren't going to contend for a Superbowl with them as rookies.

The best QB in the NFL today sat on the bench for 3 years. The other best QB in the NFL sat on the bench for a year.

There is something to moving a QB along slowly

Yeah, but he sat behind Farve (one of the best QB's in the history of the game). If we draft a QB next year, who is he going to sit behind (Rex?, Beck?)... If we happen draft our franchise QB next year, then i think he would probably end up starting by default.

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Nobody is saying revert back to "tanking the season"

This team is still going out there and will compete every single week. Thats one thing they do well, they don't fold, they compete (as evidenced in the 2nd half yesterday)

Simply put, the talent isn't good enough to garner much more then 6-8 wins. I would rather get those 6-8 wins with Austin, Paul, Hankerson, Helu, Nield getting reps as opposed to Gaffney, Stallworth, Hightower, Carriker, getting reps

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 09:12 AM ----------

I think thats part of the problem with the fan base. We lack patience and Dan Snyder is just a reflection of that

WTF?

Yes, people are already giving up on this season here. And from this post alone, taking better quality starters out to play our younger players for experience IS TANKING THE F"N SEASON!!! You've always been cool in my book, Hokie, but I'm not with you on this one, bro. You can't say we're better then last year, but still might be 6-10 again. It's obvious we aren't oing undefeated this year, but if we stop throwing interceptions to let teams jump on top of us, we will win football games. The defense is top ten right now, so even if most don't consider us a superbowl contender doesn't make us a sucky football team.

I can deal with a wildcard lose at this rate, given I was 3 the least time we won the superbowl.

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I can deal with a wildcard lose at this rate, given I was 3 the least time we won the superbowl.

In the long run, does a wild card one and done with a bunch of early 30, late 20 year olds on offense do anything to win us a Superbowl?

Look at the offense

Beck-30

Jammal Brown-31

Chester-29

Moss-32

Gaffney-30

Stallworth-31

Are these the guys who will be leading us to our next Superbowl?

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I mean, the part that's strange to me is we came into the season knowing we had no QB (in a QB driven league, now more than ever) and mostly devoid of true playmakers on offense. We knew offense would be a struggle. It looks just like the 7-9 - 9-7 middle of the pack, .500 team we all thought we had when the season started. Yeah, we were 3-1 but it was obviously by virtue of schedule and honestly, who didn't see this coming from Grossman? Beating the Rams and Cardinals made us forget we're in the first half of a rebuild? It made is forget Rex freaking Grossman is our QB? He's looked mostly awful since the Giants game and I can't even count how many picks he's had luckily dropped already this year in addition to the ones he's thrown. I think we need depth in some spots across the board (what team doesn't) but honestly, a legit NFL QB would make all the difference in the world. A truly scary WR wouldn't hurt, either but it really all comes down to QB. Our guy wasn't there in the draft last year and we knew this is how this season would be with these QBs which is why I'm not stressing it and I'm enjoying the improvements we are seeing in so many aspects of the team.

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Nobody is saying revert back to "tanking the season"

This team is still going out there and will compete every single week. Thats one thing they do well, they don't fold, they compete (as evidenced in the 2nd half yesterday)

Simply put, the talent isn't good enough to garner much more then 6-8 wins. I would rather get those 6-8 wins with Austin, Paul, Hankerson, Helu, Nield getting reps as opposed to Gaffney, Stallworth, Hightower, Carriker, getting reps

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 09:12 AM ----------

I think thats part of the problem with the fan base. We lack patience and Dan Snyder is just a reflection of that

My point is we don't lack patience, but after 20 years of being irrelevant it has run out.

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we threw 4 ints and was down 20-0 at one point in this game and only lost by a td. Philly did not score in the second half.

This can't be said enough. This game was a loss, but we did that to ourselves.

All of your points are valid and most likely correct. But we have been hearing patience for a very long time and I think that is the cause of the frustration boiling over.

True, but this time we have a reason for optimism with the patience request.

We see what they did with the defense in one offseason. As SHF pointed out, the Redskins are a team with way many more needs than can be rebuilt in one or even two offseasons.

If WE run out of patience, who cares.. overall as a fan base, we've got one of the dumber ones on the planet. But if Snyder the fanboy loses patience,, we're doomed to repeating this forever.

~BAng

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2 more offseasons is an eternity in today's NFL and would essentially be a 4 year rebuild for Shanahan, which should be unacceptable given his experience.

Not imo, given what he had to start with. The first season was a wash due to a roster full of 30 somethings, very limited free agency and Vinny having traded most of our picks away. People just refuse to accept how barren the cupboard really was when Shanny got here. We've improved in a ton of areas, gotten drastically younger, set the defense up for future success and we have our draft picks. The organization is FINALLY opertaing in a professional manner, guys aren't getting overpaid, guys are here to play not just get paid and the whole attitude of the team is heading in a very positive direction. This offseason they'll work on the offense, hopefully get our QB and then develop him with some young studs at the skill positions.....since we haven't had a skill position stud in seemingly decades.

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My point is we don't lack patience, but after 20 years of being irrelevant it has run out.

Our having run out of patience has absolutely zero impact on what it takes to build a successful football team from the ground up. Just because we've waited so long doesn't mean our urgency can make it happen any faster. This is the process, the long term plan, the ground up restoration we've all been waiting for. Try not to bury it before it even has a chance to sprout.

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How long did it take Joe Gibbs to go to the show? 2-3 yrs maybe? There is a whole lotta people that need to step it up from the top down but I do like Snyder in the background for a change, Shanny and Allen talent acquisitions to this point, Haslett doing a good job with what he has to work with and Special teams have improved as well.

A steady stream of progression will bear results in the next 1-2 yrs. and I can handle that as long as there is consistency. Rome wasn't built in a season,we've all heard it before, but I still think we are a lot closer than in 2009 without Shanny Inc.

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In the long run, does a wild card one and done with a bunch of early 30, late 20 year olds on offense do anything to win us a Superbowl?

Look at the offense

Beck-30

Jammal Brown-31

Chester-29

Moss-32

Gaffney-30

Stallworth-31

Are these the guys who will be leading us to our next Superbowl?

Um, this is not about 2012, 2013, or beyond. I'm talking about this year, one year at a time. We all know we need to make improvements, but you have a better chance of getting to the superbowl by getting into the playoffs then you do at 6-10, 8-8.

I'm sick of hearing about playing for the future at week 6 and we aren't even eliminated from playoff contention. This thread shouldn't of been started until around the patriots game. We'd know what we're dealing with this year by then.

I'm not ready to start the offseason yet. And if we're going to make a run, next year, most of those players are still going to be major contributing, if not starting. Beck will likely be on the roster, so we need to know if he can execute the offense in regular season mode. Moss will be a starter next year, as will Jammal Brown and Chester. Unless we get Reggie Wayne or something, Gaffney will have to get beat out by a younger Armstrong or Hankerson.

Again, we're sucked for 20 years. I don't care who's playing, if we can get into the playoffs, I'll take it.

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Why do people continue to look at the past 20 years? that past 20 years we have chased the old free agent, gone for broke in 1 offseason, try the quick fix, fired coaches left and right. You don't win a Super Bowl and overhaul a roster in 2 offseasons. I do agree that Mike S handled year 1 of the rebuild wrong but he did set up the 3-4 defense last year and it is paying dividends this year. We still need a new offensive line and playmakers at the WR and QB position

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I don't buy that. Teams turn around in one to two years all the time. Why does it take us four?

San Francisco is basically a competent QB away from Super Bowl contention.

San Fran has been drafting well since 2007. This San Fran team was 4 drafts in the making.

They never had competent coaching until now. If we had 4 straight terrific drafts, I would agree with you

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Our having run out of patience has absolutely zero impact on what it takes to build a successful football team from the ground up. Just because we've waited so long doesn't mean our urgency can make it happen any faster. This is the process, the long term plan, the ground up restoration we've all been waiting for. Try not to bury it before it even has a chance to sprout.

I understand that. I unintentionally took this thread a little off the OP's topic. People were frustrated to say the least yesterday and might not be ready to hear we are two years away at this time. Me included. Sorry about semi hijacking the thread.

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