Sticksboi05 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 But that doesn't mean Brady isn't as good as Manning. Manning has always had top WRs and a top TE to throw to. For years, Brady was throwing to the likes of Troy Brown, Jabar Gaffney, Ben Watson, Deion Branch, David Givens, etc. Manning had Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, and Clark. I still think Peyton is a better QB, but its not by much. And maybe we overrate Manning because he is basically the O-Coordinator and QB for the Colts. But remember, for years Manning couldn't beat the Pats. Yes, and why? Because they had a real defense and he did not. You're arguing that Manning had a better team, then why when he exits, do the Colts become the worst team in football and when Brady exits, the Patriots go on without missing a beat? The Colts had better offensive weapons true, but defensively they weren't close to the Patriots of the first half of the 00's. And the genius of Belichick proved that you don't need stars to run a great offense. ---------- Post added September-13th-2011 at 02:58 PM ---------- I think the rules of the game right now are skewed so much in favor of the passing game' date=' that it's really hard to make a call on this sort of thing.Brady cannot be hit above the neck or below the knee at any time. He may only be lightly grazed after he throws a pass. His receivers cannot be touched but his huge tight ends can muscle anyone they want.[/quote'] Thank you! I mean, really, QB's today are coddled and offenses have so much leeway today it's almost impossible to compare records. Look at how many active QB's are in the top 10 for career passer ratings? But really, would you rather have Elway or Rivers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Montana, Brady and Manning are 1, 2, 3 in some order. Brady is phenominal, but he gets all day back there. Part of that is certainly because he punishes those who blitz him, but the other part is he has a great O-Line. As far as system go, he's in the most favorable to put up big numbers, IMO. Peyton is the 4 star general. He manages everything and I think he totally covers for a franchise that has failed to draft well or hire good coaches. Even Dungy is only a decent to good coach, IMO...certainly not a HOFer like Belicheck and Walsh. Montana was awesome, but his counting stats don't rival these other two. He automatically gets put at the top of the list because the man was a winner like no other. I suppose that puts him above Manning if you weigh that heavily, but Brady is approaching that level. Elway was great and did win twice, but he wasn't the put the whole team on your back and win the game type of guy. He needed that running dimension to put his teams over the top. Marino probably did too, but never got it. He's a counting stats type of QB and will always be ranked high for that reason, but I don't see him as top 4. Farve belongs nowhere near this list. He had some great years, but he also had many bad years. What other top QBs flat out stunk for years? He's below Jim Kelly, to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yes, and why? Because they had a real defense and he did not.You're arguing that Manning had a better team, then why when he exits, do the Colts become the worst team in football and when Brady exits, the Patriots go on without missing a beat? The Colts had better offensive weapons true, but defensively they weren't close to the Patriots of the first half of the 00's. And the genius of Belichick proved that you don't need stars to run a great offense. The Pats defense was better, but Brady doesn't play defense. Manning definitely had better offensive weapons than Brady. Look what happened when Brady finally got some WRs in 2007 with Welker and Moss. 50 TD passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Both are very good. Just use the eye-ball test. I like the throws both make, their accuracy and the variety. The reads they make. The decisions they make. Surprisingly Brady has better escape ability than Manning. Their moxy. Their leadership. Peyton is more durable (?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 The Pats defense was better, but Brady doesn't play defense. Manning definitely had better offensive weapons than Brady.Look what happened when Brady finally got some WRs in 2007 with Welker and Moss. 50 TD passes. My point is, Manning has always had more pressure on him to perform because without him, his team goes from contender to joke. Brady can be replaced with Matt Cassel and the Patriots go 11-5. No way in hell that happens with the Colts. Belichick cannot be understated here. If Manning was on the Patriots all these years he'd have just as many rings as Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yes, and why? Because they had a real defense and he did not.You're arguing that Manning had a better team, then why when he exits, do the Colts become the worst team in football and when Brady exits, the Patriots go on without missing a beat? The Colts had better offensive weapons true, but defensively they weren't close to the Patriots of the first half of the 00's. And the genius of Belichick proved that you don't need stars to run a great offense. Emphasis on had. I don't think anyone's arguing who the better team has been, for the last 4-5 years. The Colts let a lot of guys go, and brought in guys that haven't delivered, and the problem has gotten worse and worse. In the beginning, the Pats were an average at best offense, that relied on great defense and special teams, and a few clutch plays per game from Brady to win. The Colts were an insanely balanced team that could beat you in a variety of different ways, and unless they went up against another stacked offensive team, or the Patriots, normally dominated their competition from start to finish. It seems like you're basing your argument off of the last 3 years. I'm using the last 10. In my opinion, Brady is the best QB of the past decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsdude Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Elway was great and did win twice, but he wasn't the put the whole team on your back and win the game type of guy. He needed that running dimension to put his teams over the top. Elway not a "put the team on yor back and win the game type of guy"? Look that term up in the dictionary and you will see Elways picture. Every heard of "The Drive"? IMHO Elway was one of the top two best QB's after the two minute warning that ever played the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I think he's somewhere between 5 and 10.1. Unitas 2. Montana 3. Manning 4. Marino 5. Baugh 6. Brady 7. Elway 8. Favre 9. Starr 10. Fouts Edit: Yeah I didn't mean for Elway below Favre originaly No Otto Graham? Without him, Fouts, Montana, Brady, Elway and Favre would likely just be footnotes as he lead the offense that established the basics of both the WCO and Coryell offenses and helped create the basic structure for all the pass-happy offenses of today. He is one of top 15 football PLAYERS of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Emphasis on had. I don't think anyone's arguing who the better team has been, for the last 4-5 years. The Colts let a lot of guys go, and brought in guys that haven't delivered, and the problem has gotten worse and worse.In the beginning, the Pats were an average at best offense, that relied on great defense and special teams, and a few clutch plays per game from Brady to win. The Colts were an insanely balanced team that could beat you in a variety of different ways, and unless they went up against another stacked offensive team, or the Patriots, normally dominated their competition from start to finish. It seems like you're basing your argument off of the last 3 years. I'm using the last 10. In my opinion, Brady is the best QB of the past decade. In the early 00's, as I said before, Manning had the better offensive weapons but the D was not close to as good as New England's. This is for people who want to pull the 3 rings to 1 argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 My point is, Manning has always had more pressure on him to perform because without him, his team goes from contender to joke. Brady can be replaced with Matt Cassel and the Patriots go 11-5. No way in hell that happens with the Colts. Belichick cannot be understated here. If Manning was on the Patriots all these years he'd have just as many rings as Brady. But the year before Brady went down, the Pats went 16-0 in the regular season. So with Cassel, they were 5 games worse than the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 In the early 00's, as I said before, Manning had the better offensive weapons but the D was not close to as good as New England's. This is for people who want to pull the 3 rings to 1 argument. Well yeah, that's not really fair. When comparing QB's, and great players in general, I try to limit it to the individual, and what they had to work with, and try to keep team accomplishments out of it, because all that does is open up a can of worms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Brady: 3028-4758 35,261yds 63.6 7.41YPA 265TDs 104INTs (9 full years) Manning: 4682-7210 54,828yds 64.9 7.60YPA 399TDs 198INTs (13 years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Top 5. Steve Young is the greatest football player I have ever seen, and does not get half the recognition he deserves. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Top 5.Steve Young is the greatest football player I have ever seen, and does not get half the recognition he deserves. IMO of course. I agree, though it would be tough for me to put him ahead of guys like Marino, Elway, Manning, Montana, etc. I'd definitely say that he may be the most accurate passer of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 All time passing yards 1 BRETT FAVRE 71,838 2 Dan Marino 61,361 3 PEYTON MANNING 54,828 4 John Elway 51,475 5 Warren Moon 49,325 6 Fran Tarkenton 47,003 7 Vinny Testaverde 46,233 8 Drew Bledsoe 44,611 9 Dan Fouts 43,040 10 KERRY COLLINS 40,638 11 Joe Montana 40,551 12 Johnny Unitas 40,239 13 Dave Krieg 38,147 14 Boomer Esiason 37,920 15 DONOVAN MCNABB 36,289 16 DREW BREES 35,685 17 Jim Kelly 35,467 18 TOM BRADY 35,261 Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 But the year before Brady went down, the Pats went 16-0 in the regular season. So with Cassel, they were 5 games worse than the year before. Yes, but they still were a winning team and missed the playoffs by mega-fluke. They still won more games than any Redskins team in 20 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 All time passing yardsJust sayin'. To be fair, in most sports, enormous stats have more to do with longevity than anything else. I still think Brady is better than most of those guys. ---------- Post added September-13th-2011 at 03:47 PM ---------- Yes, but they still were a winning team and missed the playoffs by mega-fluke. They still won more games than any Redskins team in 20 years... Also, I think Matt Cassell turned out to be a better QB than anyone could have ever imagined...coming off the bench of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I agree, though it would be tough for me to put him ahead of guys like Marino, Elway, Manning, Montana, etc. I'd definitely say that he may be the most accurate passer of all time. I lived out here in SF during the Montana/Young years, and was not a fan of the 49ers, but of course I watched them every week because that was what was on. Young never got his due because Montana was viewed as the savior that made the 49ers a dynasty, and it was viewed as "disloyal" to Saint Joe if you gave Young any credit at all. In my opinion, that dynasty was created by Bill Walsh much more than to Montana. When Walsh implemented the West Coast Offense, no one understood how to defend it. It took almost a decade for defenses to catch up. Montana thus was playing with a stacked deck in his favor and a great O Line. By the time Young took over, people understood how to defend the WCO. Plus, the 49ers let their offensive line deterioirate year after year, using all their drafts on skill players. The line that Young played behind really sucked most years. Yet Young was spectacular, the most accurate passer of all time despite not having any time to throw. And that is not even taking into account his running ability and toughness, which were both excellent. I appreciate what Montana, Marino and Elway did, but Young was more complete than any of them. He was as accurate as Marino, as tough and athletic as Elway, as competitive as Montana. And people out here treated him like :pooh: on their shoe, which was totally bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Steve Young praise Meh, you just like him because he has a law degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yes, but they still were a winning team and missed the playoffs by mega-fluke. They still won more games than any Redskins team in 20 years... What does that have to do with Brady or Manning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Meh, you just like him because he has a law degree. Yep, I always go out of my way to root for Republican Mormons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yep, I always go out of my way to root for Republican Mormons. I knew you secretly liked Romney and Huntsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 What does that have to do with Brady or Manning? That this idea that Manning has always had a better supporting cast is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 That this idea that Manning has always had a better supporting cast is false. Really? How so? Harrison, Wayne, James, Stokely, Clark>>>>>Brown, Branch, Corey Dillon Yes Brady had a better defense, but look at their offensive numbers. They really aren't that much different and Brady has had way less help on offense than Manning did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Out of that list, I would take out Starr, and insert Steve Young at #9 don't you dare :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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