Why John Beck is Likely to Win the Job

[Skinsinparadise]

Were the Eagles playing prevent? Hell no they weren't. He had to make a big throw on 4th down to keep that drive alive.

Agree, they weren't doing the opposite of prevent, I got to watch this over but it seemed like the Eagles deal with Beck is show exotic blitz packages.

[tiger187126]

I remember from the draft thread that you and I don't see eye to eye on QBs.

But, surely there were QBs available both via draft, FA or trade.

i didn't like anybody this year in the draft at where they were drafted. maybe a flier on mallet, but i hated him.

but what free agents were out there that you would want to start for your team?

or trade for that matter?

i liked what we did in the draft. we secured the defensive side of the ball for a few years and got a guy like helu and hankerson that can develop.

i was never on board with rex over beck though, and today is exactly why. we knew this was going to happen, but we haven't been treated to any of this supposed "good rex" except for a game and a half this year.

---------- Post added October-16th-2011 at 07:18 PM ----------

Beck being blitzed? ="Junk yards"....um okay.

Smells like JC logic at work.

btw, i'm pretty sure "junk stats" was invented for JC by this board.

[darrelgreenie]

Which QB would you have signed in FA? It looks like we likely get Beck now and you've been hoping for this, I'd let that script play out before worrying.

It doesn matter who I like, that just opens the door anyone reading this post to say: 'QB possibility X wasn't an option for .insert any reason here. (sux, didn't fit the system, the Shanahan's didn't like them etc..((not saying you would, but we both know that's how extremeskins works))

Just pick a QB that you like and think if they could have been a better solution then Rex Grossman?

But, you're right that I wanted Beck over Rex.

But lets not get the 2 separate issues mixed up.

I've always thought the FO/Shanahan's failure to address the QB position last offseason was a mistake.

Thinking that Beck is more talented and offers more upside in this offense is just honest football evaluation.

Not an acceptance or agreement with the offseason QB 'plan'.

I said back then that unless Rex/Beck play at a highlevel at least on par with other retread or second chance QBs (like Ryan Fitzpatrick) then imo this is a wasted season.

I view any season where your QB doesn't give you a chance to win and/or you're not developing a QB of the future as a waste.

And unless Beck/Rex start lighting it up it makes 2 wasted seasons for the regime.

[Year_of_The_Monk]

Oldfan is a genius, now please come up with some winning lotto numbers!!!!!!

[GO HAMSKINS]

What fans fail to realize is that Beck made the team score easily in the redzone. Why? Becuase of his mobility! Think about all of the bootlegs, and QB keepers options that JB gives KS. Beck has the Stronger Arm (not by a lot but stronger) , is Mobile, adn he's seem to be the smarter Qb considering the lack of playing experience JB has. When we got in the redzone the Philly D wasn't even thinking about a QB keeper why? Because they game planned for RG. Truth is Beck mobility will help increase are RZ scoring. IMagine how many plays he may can extend with his mobility? With Rex if anything happens outside of a great play calll we will fail. RG just cannot be mobile and make plays. He will get sacked,fumble,or throw a int smh

[Skinsinparadise]

It doesn matter who I like, that just opens the door anyone reading this post to say: 'QB possibility X wasn't an option for .insert any reason here. (sux, didn't fit the system, the Shanahan's didn't like them etc..((not saying you would, but we both know that's how extremeskins works))

Just pick a QB that you like and think if they could have been a better solution then Rex Grossman?

But, you're right that I wanted Beck over Rex.

But lets not get the 2 separate issues mixed up.

I've always thought the FO/Shanahan's failure to address the QB position last offseason was a mistake.

Thinking that Beck is more talented and offers more upside in this offense is just honest football evaluation.

Not an acceptance or agreement with the offseason QB 'plan'.

I said back then that unless Rex/Beck play at a highlevel at least on par with other retread or second chance QBs (like Ryan Fitzpatrick) then imo this is a wasted season.

I view any season where your QB doesn't give you a chance to win and/or you're not developing a QB of the future.

And unless Beck/Rex start lighting it up it makes 2 wasted seasons for the regime.

Just signing a free agent to sign a free agent, by most accounts, the best of the group is 35 year old and expensive Hasselbeck. That seems to be a short term move that i don't know would even mean much in the short term considering his age and injury history -- otherwise seemed like the free agency market was a bunch of retreads like Matt Moore, Thigpen?

As for the draft, the specific questions in play in my view were:

1. Can you do a rebuild all in one year?

2. Does the team need multiple players to rebuild.

3. Are you in love enough with a QB that you are willing to give up picks for (trading up) and do you have a willing trade partner

4. Do you want to add picks to fortify the roster

5. Would you rather have Gabbert or use it as an opportunity to have multiple players -- Kerrigan, Helu, Hankerson, Gomes, etc.

If Shanny thought Gabbert was a franchise QB I'd presume he would have taken him at #10. If he thought Hasselbeck was the right way to go, then he I assumed would have signed him, or if guys like Moore, etc is an undiscovered gem. Shanny DID seem to like Bradford a lot the previous year and according to some reporters talked to the Rams about trading up but couldn't work it out with them. We just don't know what went on behind the scenes, Titans took Locker at #8 if I recall, maybe the Titans loved him and wouldn't give up the pick, maybe Shanny like most thought he would be there at #10. He was already missing a 3rd and 4th rounder, they weren't IMO in position to trade up without having a barren draft.

Still with all of that the debate is irrelevant IMO if Beck plays well.

[darrelgreenie]

Just signing a free agent to sign a free agent, by most accounts, the best of the group is 35 year old and expensive Hasselbeck. That seems to be a short term move that i don't know would even mean much in the short term considering his age and injury history -- otherwise seemed like the free agency market was a bunch of retreads like Matt Moore, Thigpen?

You're arguing against your [Hasselbeck]choice for QB not mine.

If a QB is available there's always gonna be a reason why.

So of course regardless of the QB I mention there could be reason why they're not an attractive option.

I hope this is evident enough to not hash out all the way.

But, e.g. Jake Plummer (turnover prone), Drew Brees (shoulder+reject by San Diego), Vick (prison), Steve Young (old/sucked) etc.

Before a retread QB gets a new lease on their career they're gonna be viewed as journeymen or worse.

Late mid/late round QBs everyone assumes something negative about them Matt Hasselbeck, Brian Greise, Colt McCoy, Matt Flynn, Trent Green, Tony Romo sits to pee etc.

They're are plenty of QBs I like that I thought were viable options, but who they are is really besides the point imo.

1. Can you do a rebuild all in one year?

I wouldn't call what we're doing a "rebuild' its a mixed bag.

2. Does the team need multiple players to rebuild.

Disagree that this is a 'rebuild'. Most teams need multiple players.

3. Are you in love enough with a QB that you are willing to give up picks for (trading up) and do you have a willing trade partner

Trade up or maybe trade down then up? (Andy Dalton/Ryan Mallett)

Or maybe the FO was willing and cuoldn't execute their plan?

4. Do you want to add picks to fortify the roster

At the cost of the most important piece to the 'rebuild' puzzle?

5. Would you rather have Gabbert or use it as an opportunity to have multiple players -- Kerrigan, Helu, Hankerson, Gomes, etc.

Why does it have to be Gabbert? My point isn't that we should have drafted Gabbert (if you recall I wasn't even high on Gabbert). My point is that there were options.

If Shanny thought Gabbert was a franchise QB I'd presume he would have taken him at #10. If he thought Hasselbeck was the right way to go, then he I assumed would have signed him, or if guys like Moore, etc is an undiscovered gem.

Maybe they liked Gabbert the same as Ponder or Dalton or Kaepernick and thought they could trade down and still get their man? But, failed to execute?

We just don't know what went on behind the scenes

I'm making the least amount of assumptions. I'm commenting on the result: Res Grossman.

Your talking about the speculations and rationales that may have lead to Rex Grossman.

The bottom line is that we started the season with Rex Grossman as our QB, and you're trying to tell me that their were no better options via draft, FA or trade.

Still with all of that the debate is irrelevant IMO if Beck plays well.

I agree and I sincerely hope Beck makes all this a moot point.

If Rex/Beck are the reason why the team cannot compete, then I'll view their decisions at the QB position a failure.

---------- Post added October-16th-2011 at 11:47 PM ----------

If you look at it 2 of the people we drafted in leiu of a QB aren't even playing right now Jenkins and Hankerson.

And as much as I love Kerrigan I view him as a luxury. (Who is the Packers other elite rusher backer?)

Don't get me wrong I'm very glad we have him.

But, imo the biggest impact on defense comes from our upgrades along the DL and those moves came via FA.

Coefield and Bowen have helped re-make our defense. (Atogwe+Wilson too)

If you asked me wether to choose between Kerrigan and a QB + Rob Jackson at LOLB, I'm taking the QB every time.

Here's a few questions for you:

How much better would you feel if we were starting Andy Dalton?

Or we had our Colin Kaepernick or Christian Ponder to groom?

Would you rather have our Jenkins and 4th (we had 2) & 5th (Gomes) or Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick?

Would you rather have Jarvis Jenkins or Ryan Mallett (everyone seems to hate Mallett but imagine if you will that he's a good prospect)?

[Dirt]

I think Rex's fatness can seriously come as a problem now. I know Beck is more mobile naturally, but seeing Beck speed away, and successfully get away, from a blitz instantly reminded me of all the fat lumbery failed Rex attempts at a getaway. And it seems any time Rex does get away he's rattled for the rest of the play and makes stupid forced throws... when he's all alone after getting away from a guy.

The man just can't be trusted with the football. I'm pissed that everyone was right and he's the same old Rex or whatever, but that would mean he's due for a few great games as well. I was willing to ride that out if it went similar to his career in Chicago, but I just can't take it. **** that, Sundays are too few and far between, I don't wanna just throw a couple away cause the QB 'does that sometimes'.

Anyway, Becks mobility showed for sure, and not just the touchdown. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure I saw him do a nice, form, step up into the pocket time after time. Pretty sure Rex doesn't, not like that anyway. That's why he's never stepping into his throws. If mobility isn't the biggest winner for Beck, it's simply better decision making.

[MontanaSkins]

I am in the start Beck because he can't be worse mode.

[MartinC]

I was always in favour of starting Beck. My reasoning before the first game was we knew what Rex was - a guy who probably gave us a better chance to win out of the gate than Beck due to his experience in this scheme but also a QB who is fataly flawed with his turnovers and that flaw would limit what we can do as a team. Beck was/is a QB with better physical skills (IMO) but is inexperienced and how he will develop is an unknown. There was ans is a chance though that by playing him he would gain experience and develop into a much better QB than Rex.

I thought and think we are an 8-8 type team this year mainly becuase of the limitations at QB - if all the stars line up we might make the playoffs but we are not close to competing with teams like the Packers, Saints or Patriots. Given that it made more sense to me to play Beck to see what he could develop into than playing Rex who is what he is. I think that logic still holds and while Beck might well not be the long term answer we should give him an opportunity to see what we have - he provided a spark Sunday and his mobility gives the offense a dminesion that Rex does not which will be important now our LT and LG are down.

Play Rex and you will get what we have seen a few good games and a few terrible games with the bad overall outwieghing the good. Time to see what Beck can do IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

Play Rex and you will get what we have seen a few good games and a few terrible games with the bad overall outwieghing the good. Time to see what Beck can do IMO.

Yeah and it doesn't IMO really even out, his aggregate numbers in just about every major category are close to the bottom of the league. IMO he had one good game -- the Giants one. one average game, the Cards game. One bad game -- Dallas. One very bad game -- Rams. One awful game -- Eagles.

[Skinsinparadise]

Late mid/late round QBs everyone assumes something negative about them Matt Hasselbeck, Brian Greise, Colt McCoy, Matt Flynn, Trent Green, Tony Romo sits to pee etc.

Late round QB success are statistical aberrations though not the norm. Also, you can argue in most of those cases those teams had good supporting casts which Shanny is trying to put together and used some of his picks on.

They're are plenty of QBs I like that I thought were viable options, but who they are is really besides the point imo.

To me it is the point. If you didn't like Hasselbeck, I am not asking you to give me a litany of free agents you like, am curious name one you'd like them to sign. I am not saying this to be argumentative, i am just curious because when I looked at the list which I haven't revisited, I wasn't excited, seemed to be a list of retreads like Grossman. I am a big time into BPA available when it comes to the draft and i hate trading picks to trade up, i am more a Belichick style believer, trade down stockpile picks. And i am OK with a long term view that you might not get it all done in one off season, especially if your roster is a train wreck which I thought the Skins had. So if they wanted to rebuild their defense and add offensive skill players versus Gabbert or trading up or whatever I can live with it.

Yeah I'd prefer to have it all in one off season and I agree with you that the Qb is the most important part of the rebuild but for me I was so happy with their general approach of adding picks, signing younger free agents that I can live with them gambling on the Qb position. The McNabb trade was a disaster but I don't see this situation as apples to apples. They gave up nothing in terms of picks and salary for either Beck and Rex, it to me had all the makings of, heck we aren't sure about these guys but lets take it for a low risk ride and see what we got, and build up the roster elsewhere. It seems reasonable to me.

Disagree that this is a 'rebuild'. Most teams need multiple players..

We've covered this terrain before and its probably why we won't agree here. Because yeah if they are in a short term win now mode, I'd sign someone like Hasselbeck or do what the jets did to trade up for Sanchez, give up multiple picks to get whichever QB I was really into. So yeah If I was thinking Shanny is into winning now or next season, I see your complaint more clearer. but I don't agree with that premise. Shanny himself this off season said this will take time.

Trade up or maybe trade down then up? (Andy Dalton/Ryan Mallett)

Or maybe the FO was willing and cuoldn't execute their plan?

You never know what went down. I definitely got hints that they considered QB's. Both Sheehan and LL56 said they liked Dalton and would have taken him in the 2nd round. Shanny openly said he was surprised that the Vikings took Ponder at 16, which some speculated he was looking at him for later in the first. And we all know Locker was a surprise pick in the top ten. Mallet seems to be a head case and his lack of mobility doesn't seem a fit for Shanny's offense. I am just a big believer in playing the draft in the way it unfolds. I recall the draft where the skins were determined to get a LB, so gave up next years 2nd rounder to trade up for Rocky McIntosh. That stuff drives me crazy. So I loved seeing Shanny play the draft the way that he did. If he chooses to go after his QB next draft, I am cool with it.

And we both wanted to see Beck, now its likely going to happen. I am not discouraged about it because Rex beat him out in the preseason. Keiland Williams beat Torain last preseason for the job, Devin Thomas beat out Banks. We all know how that turned out.

The bottom line is that we started the season with Rex Grossman as our QB, and you're trying to tell me that their were no better options via draft, FA or trade.

You know I am not a Rex guy. I think Beck is likely better. Will see. As for free agency, the guys available to me seemed to be mostly retreads so think it would be about a wash. Unless there is a guy there i am missing that's why I asked which one you liked? I do like Hasselbeck for a short term win now move. but I am not into a short term win now move that cost the team in salary cap money in particular.

I agree and I sincerely hope Beck makes all this a moot point.

to each their own but in your shoes I'd enjoy the moment, you spent a lot of time defending Beck, so I wouldn't worry in advance about it not working out, it gives Rex too much credit in a way to do so IMO. IMO Shanny couldn't have been that sold that Rex was miles above Beck if he's yanking Rex in game #5. And per one of shanny's quotes which I posted on this thread, he said Beck's been playing well for the last 2 weeks in practice. Perhaps, Shanny wanted Beck to improve and fix a few things and now he's starting to see it.

If you look at it 2 of the people we drafted in leiu of a QB aren't even playing right now Jenkins and Hankerson.

You are jumping to the 2nd and 3rd round. how would we have Kerrigan? didn't they turn the Jacksonville trade into 5 or 6 picks? Jenkins was the stud of training camp. I am not going to give the team a hard time about a fluke injury.

And as much as I love Kerrigan I view him as a luxury. (Who is the Packers other elite rusher backer?)

Don't get me wrong I'm very glad we have him.

It's clear that they are getting more pressure on the Qb this year. The Packers at least last year put good interior pressure on the opponents so Clay wasn't the only focus for the defense. Plus Orkapo is no Clay so IMO it isn't an apples to apples comparison. The Steelers have done well with pressure coming from both sides. Th d is arguably strong now, it was horrible last year.

But, imo the biggest impact on defense comes from our upgrades along the DL and those moves came via FA.

Coefield and Bowen have helped re-make our defense. (Atogwe+Wilson too)

Orakpo has said its helped to have Kerrigan on the other side in terms of freeing him up. No question the d line is helpful too. IMO its a combination of everything.

If you asked me wether to choose between Kerrigan and a QB + Rob Jackson at LOLB, I'm taking the QB every time.

That wasn't the choice, Kerrigan or a QB. It was multiple players. And again we'd have to say which QB. the which QB is the operative point IMO. Should we have taken Gabbert or Ponder at #10? traded up for Locker at #8. traded up for Dalton at 2nd or tried hard to deal the #16 for another pick lower in the draft which according to one team, I think it was the Steelers the Skins tried to do with them.

Here's a few questions for you:

How much better would you feel if we were starting Andy Dalton?

I don't know it depends on how we got him. I like but don't love Dalton. Without a 3rd round and 4th rounder to start off with, I think i wouldn't be happy if they traded next years 1st rounder lets say to trade up in the early 2nd late first. If they got him trading down, stock piled picks and picked him up among the bunch I'd like having Dalton.

Or we had our Colin Kaepernick or Christian Ponder to groom?

i like neither ironically as much as Dalton. Kaepernick has that jerky jerky delivery. but the same answer about Dalton applies to Ponder. I don't like Kaepernick in the 2nd round. By the way, I do recall you saying around the draft that some of these Qb's are being considered now 1st and 2nd rounders are now looking to be over drafted and don't deserve that draft status -- I thought either Dalton or Ponder were part of that assessment by you. Maybe it was other guys?

Would you rather have our Jenkins and 4th (we had 2) & 5th (Gomes) or Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick?

We had two 4th round picks? Are you talking about next year. I thought we had ZERO 4th rounders last year until we traded. Or do you mean post the Kerrigan trade -- if its that, no I didn't want Kaepernick though I was fascinated by him initially post combine. As for Dalton, I'd do it but I can't fault them for a hypothetical situation, we don't know who was willing to trade at that time and for what.

Would you rather have Jarvis Jenkins or Ryan Mallett (everyone seems to hate Mallett but imagine if you will that he's a good prospect)?

Jenkins. Its unfair to say imagine that he was a good prospect. I can say would you take Jenkins or Mallet and imagine Mallet stunk, who would you take? I am gathering you trust your instincts a lot about these Qb's which is cool and that's driving you. I've been right and i've been wrong about Qb's, for me its feels more like a crap shoot when it comes to rookie Qbs.

[Going Commando]

Oldfan is a genius, now please come up with some winning lotto numbers!!!!!!

OF certainly is very smart. But it didn't take a genius to see Grossman sucked.

---------- Post added October-17th-2011 at 12:22 PM ----------

Why couldn't we have signed or made a cheap trade for David Garrard? It's probably too late for him to make an impact now, but why not have him thrown into the package Jacksonville put together for Blaine Gabbert? Jacksonville was clearly ready to move on from him even at that point.

I'd rather have used him for a year instead of either Beck or Grossman.

[Skinsinparadise]

OF certainly is very smart. But it didn't take a genius to see Grossman sucked.

Maybe it doesn't take a genius but Rex had plenty of hard core fans on this board who gave people pushing for Beck a hard time about it right until yesterday. the funny thing is we are assuming that Beck is the starter, I hope that's the case but we won't know until Wed apparently.

[Going Commando]

What's all this talk aboue Rex being even an average QB? I'm even reading it from Hogs Haven. Rex is not an average QB, Rex is a bad QB. Marginal physical talent, terrible decision making/efficiency, plus dreadful on field production = bad QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

What's all this talk aboue Rex being even an average QB? I'm even reading it from Hogs Haven. Rex is not an average QB, Rex is a bad QB. Marginal physical talent, terrible decision making/efficiency, plus dreadful on field production = bad QB.

To me you can argue Rex was average after the first 3 games or at least first 2. And I could accept the idea before this game he was average when I debated some of the Rex people, hoping this would be a redeeming game for him, although not expecting it. But yeah what does he have now a 66 QB rating for the season? He was ranked 24th BEFORE this game, am guessing he's about 29th or so now. If you aggregate his performances, I'd agree he's below average. I think he has the potential to be average if everything is right for him but not more than that.

[Redskins4ever]

Well, Beck did on two drives yesterday what Grossman couldn't do all day before then. On that final roll out, Beck would have scrambled instead of forcing the throw like Grossman did.

[Going Commando]

To me you can argue Rex was average after the first 3 games or at least first 2. And I could accept the idea before this game he was average when I debated some of the Rex people, hoping this would be a redeeming game for him, although not expecting it. But yeah what does he have now a 66 QB rating for the season? He was ranked 24th BEFORE this game, am guessing he's about 29th or so now. If you aggregate his performances, I'd agree he's below average. I think he has the potential to be average if everything is right for him but not more than that.

If average is his ceiling then he's not average. He's 32nd out of 33 qualifying QBs for passer rating right now. Nine completions and four interceptions is probably one of the worst performances I've ever seen from an NFL QB. He'll never have a game good enough to wash the taste of that one away.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

If average is his ceiling then he's not average. He's 32nd out of 33 qualifying QBs for passer rating right now. Nine completions and four interceptions is probably one of the worst performances I've ever seen from an NFL QB. He'll never have a game good enough to wash the taste of that one away.

is that the worst performance by a skins QB that youve ever seen? im not sure ive ever seen one that bad.

[Skinsinparadise]

If average is his ceiling then he's not average. He's 32nd out of 33 qualifying QBs for passer rating right now. Nine completions and four interceptions is probably one of the worst performances I've ever seen from an NFL QB. He'll never have a game good enough to wash the taste of that one away.

For the last 2 weeks I likely have posted more negative posts on Rex than anyone on this board so yeah saying average is his ceiling isn't me giving him a complement. and i flat out said in that post he's below average.

[Oldfan]

is that the worst performance by a skins QB that youve ever seen? im not sure ive ever seen one that bad.

I blame this all on you, BLC. I remember you saying about JC that things couldn't get worse.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I blame this all on you, BLC. I remember you saying about JC that things couldn't get worse.

lol, JC never had a game that bad. he made me wanna punch him in the face but 4 turnovers in 3 quarters? never for the old captain checkdown.

[illone]

is that the worst performance by a skins QB that youve ever seen? im not sure ive ever seen one that bad.

Not just a Skins QB, but a QB period. Even pop warner, college, or any organized game of football that I've ever witnessed. Seeing Rex after the game try to contend that he is confident in himself regardless of what he does was quite comical, too.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

actually, looks like Tim Hasselbeck accomplished a worse game than grossman back in 2003. 6/26, 56 yards, 0 TDs, 4 INTs.

now THAT is hilarious.

[darrelgreenie]

Late round QB success are statistical aberrations though not the norm.

Ah, stats.

But what about the success rate for QBs drafted by coaches that are considered QBs 'experts'?

I certain there success rate far outstripes the success rate for the rest of the league.

To me it is the point. If you didn't like Hasselbeck, I am not asking you to give me a litany of free agents you like, am curious name one you'd like them to sign. I am not saying this to be argumentative, i am just curious because when I looked at the list which I haven't revisited, I wasn't excited, seemed to be a list of retreads like Grossman.

What you're asking me is to predict the future:

To predict which unknown/journeyman QB would have played better.

Like I said before:

If a QB is available there's always gonna be a reason why.

So of course regardless of the QB I mention there could be reason why they're not an attractive option.

I hope this is evident enough to not hash out all the way.

But, e.g. Jake Plummer (turnover prone), Drew Brees (shoulder+reject by San Diego), Vick (prison), Steve Young (old/sucked) etc.

Before a retread QB gets a new lease on their career they're gonna be viewed as journeymen or worse.

Late mid/late round QBs everyone assumes something negative about them Matt Hasselbeck, Brian Greise, Colt McCoy, Matt Flynn, Trent Green, Tony Romo sits to pee etc.

Let me simplifiy my point thusly: the moves they made/didn't make this offseason led us to our current QB situation and unless Beck plays lights out those moves may leave us with the QB position preventing the team from reaching its potential.

And if the above happens that makes back-to-back wasted seasons: where the QB doesn't give you a chance to win and/or you're not developing a QB of the future.

And i am OK with a long term view that you might not get it all done in one off season, especially if your roster is a train wreck which I thought the Skins had. So if they wanted to rebuild their defense and add offensive skill players versus Gabbert or trading up or whatever I can live with it.

Right, but improving the QB position doesn't have to preclude any of the moves we made.

Also, you keep focusing on Gabbert or trading up as if I was advocating Gabbert or trading, I never did.

They gave up nothing in terms of picks and salary for either Beck and Rex, it to me had all the makings of, heck we aren't sure about these guys but lets take it for a low risk ride and see what we got, and build up the roster elsewhere. It seems reasonable to me.

Again, having another option at QB then Rex doesn't have to preclude any of the moves we made.

Mallet seems to be a head case and his lack of mobility doesn't seem a fit for Shanny's offense.

You think Bill Bellichick is gonna draft a QB that's a 'headcase'?

I don't and the perception of Mallett's lack of mobility is a gross exxageration imo.

And we both wanted to see Beck, now its likely going to happen. I am not discouraged about it because Rex beat him out in the preseason. Keiland Williams beat Torain last preseason for the job, Devin Thomas beat out Banks. We all know how that turned out.

Don't get me wrong I'm not discouraged by Beck; I'm discourage by their decision to go with Rex.

My discouragement is with the Mike/Kyle.

to each their own but in your shoes I'd enjoy the moment, you spent a lot of time defending Beck, so I wouldn't worry in advance about it not working out, it gives Rex too much credit in a way to do so IMO. IMO Shanny couldn't have been that sold that Rex was miles above Beck if he's yanking Rex in game #5. And per one of shanny's quotes which I posted on this thread, he said Beck's been playing well for the last 2 weeks in practice. Perhaps, Shanny wanted Beck to improve and fix a few things and now he's starting to see it. You are jumping to the 2nd and 3rd round. how would we have Kerrigan? didn't they turn the Jacksonville trade into 5 or 6 picks? Jenkins was the stud of training camp. I am not going to give the team a hard time about a fluke injury.

It's clear that they are getting more pressure on the Qb this year. The Packers at least last year put good interior pressure on the opponents so Clay wasn't the only focus for the defense. Plus Orkapo is no Clay so IMO it isn't an apples to apples comparison. The Steelers have done well with pressure coming from both sides. Th d is arguably strong now, it was horrible last year.

Orakpo has said its helped to have Kerrigan on the other side in terms of freeing him up. No question the d line is helpful too. IMO its a combination of everything.

That wasn't the choice, Kerrigan or a QB. It was multiple players. And again we'd have to say which QB. the which QB is the operative point IMO. Should we have taken Gabbert or Ponder at #10? traded up for Locker at #8. traded up for Dalton at 2nd or tried hard to deal the #16 for another pick lower in the draft which according to one team, I think it was the Steelers the Skins tried to do with them.

Here's a few questions for you:

I don't know it depends on how we got him. I like but don't love Dalton. Without a 3rd round and 4th rounder to start off with, I think i wouldn't be happy if they traded next years 1st rounder lets say to trade up in the early 2nd late first. If they got him trading down, stock piled picks and picked him up among the bunch I'd like having Dalton.

i like neither ironically as much as Dalton. Kaepernick has that jerky jerky delivery. but the same answer about Dalton applies to Ponder. I don't like Kaepernick in the 2nd round. By the way, I do recall you saying around the draft that some of these Qb's are being considered now 1st and 2nd rounders are now looking to be over drafted and don't deserve that draft status -- I thought either Dalton or Ponder were part of that assessment by you. Maybe it was other guys?

We had two 4th round picks? Are you talking about next year. I thought we had ZERO 4th rounders last year until we traded. Or do you mean post the Kerrigan trade -- if its that, no I didn't want Kaepernick though I was fascinated by him initially post combine. As for Dalton, I'd do it but I can't fault them for a hypothetical situation, we don't know who was willing to trade at that time and for what.

Jenkins. Its unfair to say imagine that he was a good prospect. I can say would you take Jenkins or Mallet and imagine Mallet stunk, who would you take? I am gathering you trust your instincts a lot about these Qb's which is cool and that's driving you. I've been right and i've been wrong about Qb's, for me its feels more like a crap shoot when it comes to rookie Qbs.

gotta run...will finish

But, its impossible to give Rex credit, anyone watching who knows football could see what Rex is/was.