Why John Beck is Likely to Win the Job

[Pelado]

Do back-side LB's often play contain in these instances in a 43 defense? I honestly don't know enough about it, from what I have understood it's usually just the end in a 43, but I'm not expert. When I refer to OLB/DE I'm referring to 43 ends/34 OLB's just for clarification sake.

I agree with that, and I'm not debating that. I'm debating his impact in this offense v Grossman's impact in this offense, how different do back-side DE/OLB's play our stretch/boot-action pass when the two different QB's are in the game.

That was my point, is that the DE/OLB has to play contain to defend the boot-action pass, but either QB can perform the boot-action pass in our offense. Not sure if that was your point though, sorry if I misinterpreted you.

Congratulations on post #3,500.

I agree that both QB's should be able to successfully perform the boot-action pass when the DE or OLB contains the bootleg.

[Oldfan]

...I agree that both QB's should be able to successfully perform the boot-action pass when the DE or OLB contains the bootleg.

I should be able to perform the boot-action pass... just not as good as Rex... who should not be able to do it nearly as good as John.

[Pelado]

I should be able to perform the boot-action pass... just not as good as Rex... who should not be able to do it nearly as good as John.

Don't sell yourself short. The word on the street is that you can really toss the ball around.

[darrelgreenie]

Do back-side LB's often play contain in these instances in a 43 defense? I honestly don't know enough about it, from what I have understood it's usually just the end in a 43, but I'm not expert. When I refer to OLB/DE I'm referring to 43 ends/34 OLB's just for clarification sake.

Oh, okay I thought you meant backside OLB/DE in the same sense that I meant (both).

But a 43 OLB can have backside contain duties.

(Hey were all layman here, even those of us that coach. GP btw)

I agree with that, and I'm not debating that. I'm debating his impact in this offense v Grossman's impact in this offense, how different do back-side DE/OLB's play our stretch/boot-action pass when the two different QB's are in the game.....[2]That was my point, is that the DE/OLB has to play contain to defend the boot-action pass, but either QB can perform the boot-action pass in our offense. Not sure if that was your point though, sorry if I misinterpreted you.

Right and I understand your point and I agree somewhat about that aspect.

But, that is only one aspect.

I'm pointing out the Colts game because they choose to defend boot differently they chose pass first.

Their OLB dropped into coverage and didn't contain; I don't recall what their backside DE was doing but I know that he didn't hold contain because Beck was able to scramble for chunk yardage and pick up first downs.

That is a distinct advantage that Beck has over Grossman.

If the game continued the Colts would have to find another way to defend the boot-keep or Beck would have a huge rushing day with multiple 1st down conversions.

[Mahons21]

Right and I understand your point and I agree somewhat about that aspect.

But, that is only one aspect.

I'm pointing out the Colts game because they choose to defend boot differently they chose pass first.

Their OLB dropped into coverage and didn't contain; I don't recall what their backside DE was doing but I know that he didn't hold contain because Beck was able to scramble for chunk yardage and pick up first downs.

That is a distinct advantage that Beck has over Grossman.

If the game continued the Colts would have to find another way to defend the boot-keep or Beck would have a huge rushing day with multiple 1st down conversions.

I see what you're saying. What I'm wondering is, even though Grossman isn't a threat to run, do you believe teams will still play contain on him because of his threat on the boot-action pass?

My theory is defenses will still play contain on Rex because they don't want him to have all day to throw the ball. If the rest of the linemen are playing the stretch, it'll take a significant amount of time to react, and you most likely won't get any pressure on the QB, Unless you decide to leave a back-side man in contain or spying the QB, to possibly rush the passer or drop to a short zone when the QB is rolling out. Again this is just a theory of mine formulated from an extremely small sample size in the BAL game, in which I observed Jarret Johnson playing contain just as frequently for Rex as he did Beck.

[Pelado]

I see what you're saying. What I'm wondering is, even though Grossman isn't a threat to run, do you believe teams will still play contain on him because of his threat on the boot-action pass?

My theory is defenses will still play contain on Rex because they don't want him to have all day to throw the ball. If the rest of the linemen are playing the stretch, it'll take a significant amount of time to react, and you most likely won't get any pressure on the QB, Unless you decide to leave a back-side man in contain or spying the QB, to possibly rush the passer or drop to a short zone when the QB is rolling out. Again this is just a theory of mine formulated from an extremely small sample size in the BAL game, in which I observed Jarret Johnson playing contain just as frequently for Rex as he did Beck.

The stretch bootleg is essentially a series of reads based on what the defense is showing. For example: if the DE/OLB contains - pass it short on a delay flare out from the TE. If the DE/OLB covers the TE, continue the bootleg with the primary receiver on a seam route. If that's covered, throw it to the slot receiver on a 20 yards deep drag route. If that's covered, run the ball. If there's no room, get out of bounds or throw the ball away.

If the misdirection on the stretch play deceives enough defenders, there will be options for gains.

[Stadium-Armory]

Seems like Vick would be sick in this offense.

[addicted]

Seems like Vick would be sick in this offense.

I know right? I guess Randle El who could run better then John Beck would be great here too with this line of crap that OF is spreading

I know OF and know he likes to just get everyone jacked up with his silly statements

So I've stayed out of this thread but felt like posting anyway

Hell no John Beck would not be the better starting QB regardless of the fact he's slightly faster on his feet then Grossman

Is rushing that important from the QB in this offense?

Seems to me that some of you are still ignorant about what type of offense this is. Wake up fools and see that this is Hustons offense not Denvers

Kyle runs this ****, not his dear old Dad

Between 2008 and 2009 the rushing yards for Matt Schuab is 68 yards and 57 yards in the season

Someone please tell me why the hell you think that we need a running QB?

Now what we need more then that is obvious as hell to me. And it's Rex Grossman

You see Rex Grossman's passes this preseason? Some have been a little off but the mass majority have been awesome

They've looked sharper at times then Beck although I think Becks had a few nice ones too

But Rex has got the offense up to the line of scrimmage rolling so much faster and better then Beck with an uptempo you haven't seen out of Beck

And Rex is a very tough dude who can take a hit, he's got the pocket pressance you want from your QB

John Becks pocket awareness ends up with him taking unnecassary sacks and that's NOT what you want

As for the idea about "who is more prone to turnover the ball" I believe they are equal in that

Now you can continue on with your John Beck bullcrap fan posts but to me this really is just an Anti Rex Grossman issue

If some of you just didn't hate Rex Grossman this crap wouldn't continue to go on but you do so lets all cheer for John Beck...I don't think Beck lasts 6 games if he does become the starter

He doesn't score enough and he won't run the offense as it needs to be run.

Defensively if I were going up against Rex Grossman I'd be thinking he could beat me with his arm so I'd be careful with my blitzes

On the other hand with Beck I'd bet he sucked and would blitz the hell out of him making his life hell

Grossman gives Defenses something to think about, Beck not so much. Offensively we are much better starting Grossman then Beck

[darrelgreenie]

Seems like Vick would be sick in this offense.

No doubt.

[Stadium-Armory]

I like your point about Rex's up-temponess. I see it too. Beck is technically faster, but there's something about the way that Rex runs the team that has speed to it.

[HigSkin]

Hell no John Beck would not be the better starting QB regardless of the fact he's slightly faster on his feet then Grossman..........

Post of the week right here....:ols:

However, I would add that Grossman will likely tank at some point this season, perhaps get injured and he'll be pulled. We'll see Beck and that's probably the order that it should be.

[Oldfan]

I like your point about Rex's up-temponess. I see it too. Beck is technically faster, but there's something about the way that Rex runs the team that has speed to it.

You Rex fans see an edge for him in "up-temponess?" Well, if Rex has an edge somewhere maybe that's it. It sure as hell isn't in talent.

[Stadium-Armory]

Yes, I know. Not very scientific.

[darrelgreenie]

I see what you're saying. What I'm wondering is, even though Grossman isn't a threat to run, do you believe teams will still play contain on him because of his threat on the boot-action pass? ............... Again this is just a theory of mine formulated from an extremely small sample size in the BAL game, in which I observed Jarret Johnson playing contain just as frequently for Rex as he did Beck.

Its doubtful that the Raven's defense gameplanned, and they certainly wouldn't gameplan for Beck andRex.

They likely just played it honest within the confines of their base defense.

In that light I don't think how they or the Colts defensed the boot-keep is indicative of how team might defend it during the season.

RE: do you believe teams will still play contain on him[Rex] because of his threat on the boot-action pass?

It depends on what they're trying to stop.

(Regardless of the QB) I'm sure they'll mix it up.

It depends on how the running game is working and wether or not they're giving up a lot of cut back runs.

I think some of the time the defense will blitz from the edge the way the Eagles did to a gimmpy McNabb.

If the boot-action passing game is gashing them they might decide to play pass coverage and challenge Rex to a foot race on the edge and hope their defenders can close in time.

[WeBB15]

I'd have the inexperienced- but- big -potential Beck to start and see how the first few games fair, then if worst comes to worst, you can always go back and replace him with Rex who has experience with pressure and knows the system as well so he could handle having to scrounge up some wins(see last year).

You cant have it the other way around, where if Grossman sucks, then you have inexperience coming in with the pressure to try and save the offense and get wins, not as good as a scenario.

[Stadium-Armory]

I don't know about all that. I just think you play the guy that gives you the best chance to win on that day, and my untrained eye tells me that its Grossman.

[Oldfan]

I don't know about all that. I just think you play the guy that gives you the best chance to win on that day, and my untrained eye tells me that its Grossman.

Do you not think that scheme fit is an important factor in that decision; or is it that you didn't find my argument in the OP on Beck's fit to the scheme persuasive?

[Stadium-Armory]

Do you not think that scheme fit is an important factor in that decision; or is it that you didn't find my argument in the OP on Beck's fit to the scheme persuasive?

The latter. While he may technically fit the scheme better, its not "better enough" to outweigh the (nebulous) 'it factor' that I see in Rex.

You may be right though, and we will soon see what the Shannahan's think.

[Mahons21]

Its doubtful that the Raven's defense gameplanned, and they certainly wouldn't gameplan for Beck andRex.

They likely just played it honest within the confines of their base defense.

In that light I don't think how they or the Colts defensed the boot-keep is indicative of how team might defend it during the season.

RE: do you believe teams will still play contain on him[Rex] because of his threat on the boot-action pass?

It depends on what they're trying to stop.

(Regardless of the QB) I'm sure they'll mix it up.

It depends on how the running game is working and wether or not they're giving up a lot of cut back runs.

I think some of the time the defense will blitz from the edge the way the Eagles did to a gimmpy McNabb.

If the boot-action passing game is gashing them they might decide to play pass coverage and challenge Rex to a foot race on the edge and hope their defenders can close in time.

Thanks for the input.

[Skinsinparadise]

You Rex fans see an edge for him in "up-temponess?" Well, if Rex has an edge somewhere maybe that's it. It sure as hell isn't in talent.

Rex also seems very bubbily, almost exuberant the way he struts around the field. Just kidding.

[kubstix]

Hopefully Rex gets the nod. Beck stinks in Madden 12. All kidding aside, Landry is a beast in Madden 12 once again.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

I’ve put my reputation (such as it is) on the line in the OP. If I’m wrong, this thread will be bumped and you can pile on with the rest of the herd.

Oldfan,

Suppose Shanahan goes with Grossman against the Giants. What will you conclude by that decision?

1. You know QBs better than Shanahan.
   
2. It was always Grossman's job to lose, and he did nothing to lose it.
   
3. Shanahan knows QBs better than you.
   
4. Shanahan wants Grossman to fail, so he can bring in Beck and prove he's better.
   
5. Shanahan wants to tank the season so he can pick a QB high.
   
6. Shanahan doesn't understand how Beck's superior "talent" is a better "fit" for his offense.
   
7. Beck's "stretch boot" prowess + his "swag" may not be the key qualities in a Shanahan QB.
   
8. ???
   

Feel free to pick multiple answers, or add your own.

[Pelado]

Oldfan,

Suppose Shanahan goes with Grossman against the Giants. What will you conclude by that decision?

It's obvious to me that both QBs could perform much better with this team and with this scheme than they have in their previous stops. It's equally obvious that John Beck has more talent and he's a much better fit in this scheme. So, to me, Beck is a no-brainer for our rebuilding team.

I'm not saying that everyone should see this choice as I do. I'm saying that TO ME Mike's starting Rex would baffle me as much as the McNabb trade because I have seen in John Beck what Mike and Kyle must have seen in him.

[SKINSFAN87]

agree with you on all points, I believe that it's beck's job to lose right now. I think that he will be given the chance to start and I also believe that if he plays bad, he will be given at least 6 games to turn it around before grossman gets his shot.

[Skinsinparadise]

Look most of you, I shifted through a lot of quotes about both QBs, I'd say though these are the most comprehensive about Beck that I've noticed from both Shannys. We are going back and forth about Beck with speculation about what Shanny must think but some of it is addressed pretty well right from the horses mouth. And if you notice the Bulger comment, Gruden said that Beck reminds him of Bulger. It would seem to be a heck of a coincidence of Gruden didn't get that thought from talking to Shanny.

From Kyle with some editorial at the end from ESPN:

"Anybody who watched him in college, he's a hell of a quarterback," Shanahan said. "If you look at his career, he really hasn't had an opportunity to show that he can or cannot do it. But everything we see in practice, everything I've seen with him, it's the exact same that he showed in college. He's a very good thrower. He can get rid of it quick -- very similar to Marc Bulger in his throwing motion, how he can just get rid of it at any time. He's got a lot of zip on his ball. He does have a strong arm. And when it comes to his mobility, he'll surprise people. He can move around in the pocket, he can outflank the defense, and he can move the chains with his feet, too."

This is why the Redskins want to see Beck, even having seen Grossman do well in his first crack at it. They believe Beck's athleticism brings an element that Grossman does not. What they don't know is whether Beck can handle the opportunity, since they don't think he's ever had it.

From Mike with some editorial at the end from ESPN

"He's very confident," Shanahan said. "He believes in himself, and he should, because he's a talented guy who should be a starting quarterback in the NFL. Now, we've got to see how he plays when the lights come on. We'll put him in the game and see how he handles the pressure of being the guy. If he can handle the pressure, we know he's capable from an athletic standpoint."

That's the word both Shanahans use when they talk about Beck -- "know," not "think." Kyle and Mike Shanahan project absolute confidence in their evaluation of Beck. They say the four games he started for the 2007 Dolphins -- a 1-15 team that ranks as one of the worst ever -- are a poor gauge.

"I've been doing this for a few years. I know people that can play," Mike Shanahan told me. "He's an excellent athlete. He's got a quick release. He can anticipate throws. He's a natural leader. Extremely intelligent. So I don't even worry about what people say. I know John Beck can play in this league. Why hasn't he played? Why hasn't he had a chance? I really don't care what the different thought processes are, but I know John can play in this league. He hasn't had a chance. Everybody needs a supporting cast, so we'll do the best we can to give him a good supporting cast -- him and Rex -- and give those guys a chance to compete."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/29614/what-the-redskins-see-in-john-beck