2012 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[wilco_holland]

Personally have a hard time seeing all 3 stay in the school at the same time. One of the 3 will leave to be the #1 guy IMO. I think you see Barkley and Luck declare but possibly Jones stay in school

Don´t believe it either, but just was thinking out loud, but with the current draft slots money it could push people to stay in school. Back in the days (last year) you could become freaking rich if you got picked high, there was a huge amount garanteed...but now a days you need to earn it. Garanteed money is limited and doesn´t give you a life long ´´no need to work card´´.

[Dukes and Skins]

Don´t believe it either, but just was thinking out loud, but with the current draft slots money it could push people to stay in school. Back in the days (last year) you could become freaking rich if you got picked high, there was a huge amount garanteed...but now a days you need to earn it. Garanteed money is limited and doesn´t give you a life long ´´no need to work card´´.

Oh definitely I understand where you are coming from and its certainly possible, but at the same time one of those 3 wants to be "the guy" you know? and say I was the top QB(and even the top player) in my class.

[Going Commando]

would be something crazy if beck and/or Rex played well enough and we took Upshaw/Lewis this year and then went BPA and landed Te'o

I think Teo is going to stay for all four years. Ditto for Kuechly.

It seems like ILBs don't come out early all that often.

Hightower and Burfict are the only ones I could see coming out early. Hightower is basically a RS Senior with an extra year of eligibility, he'll be ready to come out by the end of the year.

I'm kind of fantasizing a little bit about getting both Upshaw and Lewis if Lewis starts to fall on draft day. You'd have two guys who play very different styles of defense--Upshaw blitzes and fills hard, Lewis covers and flows to the ball. With a good defensive line in front of them and Orakpo and Kerrigan setting the edges pretty well, Lewis is so instinctive he'd end up with 150+ tackles a season.

I love that we finally have multiple middle round picks this year. We could go ILB-ILB in the first and second rounds and still not compromise our ability to improve the OL and DL and secondary. Or say Lewis slips into the third. Then say we're able to trade down from the teens into the late 20s, much like we were able to last year to add a second. Then you could have a ton of picks in the early half of the draft and really address some needs

1 - ILB - Upshaw

2 - QB - Cousins / Tannehill / Lindley OR OT - Ad**** / Datko

2 - NT - Ta'amu / Chapman

3 - ILB - Lewis OR OT - Matt Reynolds

4 - OC Mike Brewster

4 - CB - Omar Bolden / Donnie Fletcher / Shaun Prater

If you drafted both Upshaw and Lewis, figure you would get at least one more season from London, maybe more. Both Lewis and Upshaw would be able to get snaps early though because Upshaw can play OLB and DE too depending on the package and formation. We could bring our LBs on a lot more slowly than we were able to bring along Orakpo and Kerrigan, which would be nice.

Perry Riley would probably stick around as the primary backup for when you need two smaller linebackers and Upshaw comes off the field.

---------- Post added August-29th-2011 at 10:09 AM ----------

I think though if we end up picking a QB it may not even be one of the big 3. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if we took a guy like Upshaw or Ta'Amu in round 1 then turned around in round 3 and took Tannehill(DG will be happy )

I think there is no chance we'll take a QB in the first half of the first round this year.

I think there is absolutely 0 chance we draft Luck, Barkley, or Jones.

If we draft a QB, it'll be because Beck looked horrible or was seriously injured to the point we're in doubt about his future.

And if we draft a QB it'll be a senior, probably with a long history of career starts. Tannehill is less likely because of this IMO, although I think he's a legit talent and nice second round value right now (of course this was said about Jerrod Johnson this time last year too).

Brandon Weeden also isn't all that likely either because of his lack of collegiate experience but I think he'd be a pretty nice second round value too. He's a terrific passer and you can see that second round baseball arm on him.

I think our most likely targets would be Kirk Cousins and Ryan Lindley. I like both of those QBs, but Cousins is my favorite of the two. He reminds me a bunch of Matt Schaub.

[GibbsFactor]

What's our top five positions of need going into this draft?

1. QB

2. CB

3. RT

4. ILB

5. General OL Depth

[Going Commando]

Jones wants to get his degree so I doubt he leaves this year' date=' Barkley has stated he wants to get USC to a bowl game before he leaves which means he'd have to stay another season.[/quote']

I didn't think Jones and Barkley will come out early either, but they'll have reasons to do so. Jones redshirted, he's probably on pace to graduate this year anyway. And Barkley says he wants to play out his eligibility but if this turns into a difficult season like last year's and USC falls to the middle of the pack in the conference I could see him leaving.

---------- Post added August-29th-2011 at 10:18 AM ----------

What's our top five positions of need going into this draft?

1. QB

2. CB

3. RT

4. ILB

5. General OL Depth

1.) ILB - need a starter today, probably two by 2013.

2.) NT - need a primary backup + run game specialist

3.) G/C - can stand to upgrade any one of our interior line players

4.) RT - need a long term starter

5.) S - need a long term dynamic starter, might require a high pick by 2013/2014

Cornerback doesn't crack my top five because we have three good youngish corners already (Hall, Barnes, Wilson), a fourth who is semi-reliable veteran depth (Buchanon), and a fifth who is a highly promising developmental rookie (Thompson). Plus we have Dejon Gomes who can take snaps at both safety and CB. Why do you consider CB such a high need?

QB also doesn't crack my list yet. We're serious about John Beck.

[Going Commando]

Do you all know of any other football game torrent sites aside from Ten Yard Torrents? They won't let me create my own account and I lost my cousin's account information that I had been using.

[Dro89]

steve i found this site not torrent, but its legit. http://forum.wiziwig.eu/forum.php

[Going Commando]

steve i found this site not torrent, but its legit. http://forum.wiziwig.eu/forum.php

That's a nice websit, but unfortunately they don't post NCAA games. I was looking to download some CFB games to watch while I wait for the season to start. I'm so excited for the start of the CFB season.

[Dukes and Skins]

Yeah Steve Cousins and Lindley are two guys I'm keeping my eyes on as well this year as guys to watch for us

[Going Commando]

Yeah Steve Cousins and Lindley are two guys I'm keeping my eyes on as well this year as guys to watch for us

Lindley really looks the part of a franchise QB to me. Big, tall QB with a strong arm and some movement ability. He'll be a four year starter if he makes it through this season.

I'm going to start writing some articles for the blog soon Dukes. I'm working on a Courtney Upshaw evaluation and then after that I'm planning to do one on Travis Lewis. Those are my two favorite senior linebackers so far.

Have anyone in particular you want to cover? If so, I'll leave them to you.

[terrifNick21]

That's a nice websit, but unfortunately they don't post NCAA games. I was looking to download some CFB games to watch while I wait for the season to start. I'm so excited for the start of the CFB season.

You can watch every game from last year on espn3.com

[Dukes and Skins]

Lindley really looks the part of a franchise QB to me. Big, tall QB with a strong arm and some movement ability. He'll be a four year starter if he makes it through this season.

I'm going to start writing some articles for the blog soon Dukes. I'm working on a Courtney Upshaw evaluation and then after that I'm planning to do one on Travis Lewis. Those are my two favorite senior linebackers so far.

Have anyone in particular you want to cover? If so, I'll leave them to you.

Nah man I haven't really decided on specific guys yet, go ahead and take them. I'll work on figuring out mine now

[Dro89]

steve this guy would be good to elaborate on for the blog.

Lindley really looks the part of a franchise QB to me. Big, tall QB with a strong arm and some movement ability. He'll be a four year starter if he makes it through this season.

[Dukes and Skins]

steve this guy would be good to elaborate on for the blog.

I mean I can go ahead and claim that guy if you all dont mind, been a big Lindley guy since last year when I started to hear his name more and more

[Dro89]

I mean I can go ahead and claim that guy if you all dont mind, been a big Lindley guy since last year when I started to hear his name more and more

yea im good with that..

[gorebd82]

***Sorry for the long post

Wow, good stuff so far in this thread. I’ve been gone since a little bit before the draft because things started to get really hectic/crowded with the 2011 thread and things got really busy with my business for the summer season (definitely a good thing). I think the team had a really successful draft and 2012 is the first time that the current regime can start to really has a foundation to build upon rather than executing a rebuild.

That said, let me say that I definitely approach things more from a team building view probably more than most in this thread who have more of a scouts eye (I also can’t watch as much CFB as I used to since I work Saturdays). When I look at the current roster, I think for the first time in a while, I don’t really see gaping holes and I see pretty good depth. I think this allows for a drastic shift in our approach to the draft.

First thing I want to comment on is Steve’s observation about the regime’s philosophy of leaning towards accomplished players, particularly seniors. I think that has been our tendency in the first two years of this regime as we’ve valued quantity of solid players more than targeting the highest quality players. I think that’s been evident in both FA and the draft.

Our roster was really thin on the back end and our starters had no fire due to complacency. Shanny and Allen needed guys to come in and immediately compete, contributing has been a bonus. Out of 19 draft picks over two years, only 2 are expected starters (Williams and Kerrigan). We’re now at the point where all of our draft picks and FAs aren’t guaranteed roster/PS spots. Now that we have quality bodies in place, I think we’ll start to see more gambles for potential game-changers.

Going back to my suggestion that we have a quality roster with few holes (that being under the consideration that many lesser talents are system specific players), let’s look at the position groups and how that affects the draft:

QB – we have 3 former highly regarded prospects that are system specific (even Clemens was under Heimerdinger). Beck has potential to pull a Kurt Warner, but I see him as the franchise guy for 4 years (including 2011) as best case scenario. If he balls this year, then we extend his contract by 2 years so that he has 2012-14. That’s the end of Shanny’s contract and puts Beck at 34. I don’t see us giving him a 3rd deal til he’s 38 or so, but maybe franchising him and maybe trading him. He’s not Favre, Manning, or Brady. We could really use a prospect as our QB of the future.

RB – we have a stable of system guys. We have a powerful lead back and a speedy rookie with power. We have an athletic fullback that they like enough to make Sellers expendable. We also have a bunch of late round backs in the pipeline. We could use a scatback and maybe a bruiser tailback/FB a la Hillis (might be Keiland). No need to invest early picks.

WR – We have a 1a in Santana, a few vets on 1 year deals (including Armstrong I believe), and a few prospects. We could really use a true #1 so that Santana can be a #2 next year. Based on the quantity of prospects, someone should emerge as a #2 eventually to make Santana a #3 by the third year of this new deal.

TE – no need to discuss. They should extend Fred and keep this trio of Cooley, Davis, Paulsen together for the next 5 years. In a couple of years, Fred and Cooley will swap spots as #1 and #2.

OT – We have two elite talents as starters. Trent should hold down one of the spots for the next decade, hopefully the left side. Jammal has a few more seasons as an elite tackle, maybe his whole contract as many talented LTs move over to the right to extend their careers (similar to the CB to FS shift). We should be able to spend the next few drafts looking for mid to late round gems.

Interior OL – we have 3 system guys as starters that are all under 30. We can spend the next few years looking for mid to late round gems as our ZBS system does not call for elite talent on the interior, but rather great fits for the system.

DL – we’ve just spent a lot of resources to secure our top 4 linemen in a 3 man unit. All are under 30, including a rookie, and seem to fit the system well. We could use more quality in the rotation, maybe Neild emerges, but we can fill this with solid FA and mid-late round picks. No need to spend a high pick on the 5th man in the rotation.

OLB – Orakpo and Kerrigan means we have no need to spend high picks, we should just focus on depth.

ILB – Fletch is a rock, but old as dirt. Keyaron Fox looks like excellent depth. Riley was drafted to play next to Fletch, but is unproven. Rocky is experienced, but a poor fit. So by next year or 2013 at the latest, we may need 1 or 2 ILBs. ILB doesn’t require a high draft pick, but high draft picks also tend to produce stud ILBs.

CB – DHall is under 30 and under contract. Josh Wilson, Barnes, Brandyn Thompson, and Westbrook are all young. Buchanon is a decent vet. A shutdown CB would be nice, but is devalued by this Zone Blitz, Pitt scheme like RB and interior OL are devalued by our offense. It would be a luxury especially with young talent in the pipeline.

S – We have a stud in Landry for hopefully a decade and Atogwe should be very good for a few more years into his mid 30s. We can look for mid and late round gems.

All that said, I think we can eliminate RB, OL, DL, OLB, and S from the discussion of high draft picks (I mean 1st and 2nd). QB, WR, ILB, and CB are really the areas where we can use a 1st or 2nd round elite talent. QB, WR, and ILB are also the areas where age of our starters is also a concern (Beck, Moss, Gaffney, Fletcher). We have youth at CB and our scheme de-emphasizes the position so a lockdown CB is a luxury that we exercise in a “too good to pass up scenario”.

As far as WR goes, we need a stud if we’re gonna spend a pick. We would have to get an Andre Johnson type. The two candidates for that are Blackmon and Jeffery. Based on their hype/talent, I think they both go top 15. I think that the Skins will at least sneak into the playoffs because of a dominant rushing attack and an aggressive, opportunistic defense. I honestly think that Dallas and the Giants are in shambles (particularly OL and secondary). I also think Philly is stacked at some positions and thin at OL, LB, and S. I think we’ll have the best run game and defense in the division with an efficient pass attack. But that said, if we pick in the top 15, then Beck sucked. If we pick after that, the WRs will be gone. In all honesty, I’m hoping we make one FA move and that’s to get a true lead WR like Vincent Jackson rather than re-up Gaffney and Stallworth. Jackson, Moss, and a young WR at 3. By 2013, the young WR becomes a starter.

So by process of elimination, I’m hoping we go QB and ILB in the 1st and 2nd. I’m hoping that all FOUR of the top junior QBs come out due to individual situation and the NFL’s fading resistance to drafting junior QBs early. I doubt Luck stays again. Jones will get his degree. Barkley is a 3-year starter that might not want to stick around for USC’s continued punishments (are they even bowl eligible?). And a healthy Griffin will have a good season, knows Baylor can’t win anything, and thinks Cam Newton and Vick help his draft status. Under that scenario and with a strong overall QB class, I think around pick 20, the Skins take RG3 as the 4th QB off the board (maybe 3rd ahead of Barkley).

You may not think that he’s Shanny’s type, but Shanny has shown that he’s not going to draft a QB early unless he has elite talent. He also won’t draft a green QB when he needs a starter. With Beck in place and 31, that will allow RG3 to get the Aaron Rodgers treatment, have the system knowledge to pair with elite talent, and take over as the Beck era ends.

I’d also like to see us trade up in 2nd (probably costing our 3rd) to secure the first or second ILB on the board. ILBs in general drop in the draft. Every now an then one goes early, but for the most part, they fall to the 2nd (Tatupu, Ryans, Laurenitis, Malauga, Spikes, etc.). So even if the juniors all stay, at least Lewis or Upshaw should be available in the early 2nd. If even one junior comes out, that pushes everyone down. Lewis would be a nice heir to Fletch or Upshaw can be the ultimate mismatch for an OC. How beautiful would a RG3, Upshaw draft be for our future. If the junior QBs don’t come out, I’d go with the top ILB in the 1st and a guy like Lindley in the 2nd.

Basically, Shanny likes his 1st rounders to come in an start, but WR and CB are the only positions where I can really see a rookie coming in to start. But they’d have to be super elite and I don’t see us being in position for that. The best alternative is to start grooming your future leader on offense or defense since those are areas of need.

With the remaining picks, I’d go BPA with both 4ths (leaning towards OL and DL). I’d look at a scatback/returner in the 5th. There’s an abundance in this draft so we can get a good one. That can also help us not have to have a WR/KR guy. I feel like with 4 WR sets that having your 6th WR be a small guy is a real disadvantage. Then just go BPA at any position in the late rounds.

Thanks for bearing with me.

[Dro89]

sweet motherly jesus.. ima have to break that ish down in 30 min increments.

[Going Commando]

I mean I can go ahead and claim that guy if you all dont mind, been a big Lindley guy since last year when I started to hear his name more and more

We'll split up the quarterbacks. You should write about Lindley. I'll write about Cousins then?

Do you want to take Matt Barkley and Landry Jones and I'll take Brandon Weeden and Ryan Tannehill? We've already got your RGIII profile and I've got a Luck one from early last season we can probably still use. Between Lindley, Cousins, Barkley, Jones, Weeden, and Tannehill that's probably got all of the big names covered early on. Except for maybe Foles and Brantley I guess, but we can always get to the later consideration guys afterwards.

---------- Post added August-29th-2011 at 08:29 PM ----------

sweet motherly jesus.. ima have to break that ish down in 30 min increments.

Haha. If you or anyone else is looking for something long to read on the crapper after you finish that, I just finished my offseason review for the Redskins and posted it on the blog.

Part I is here: http://futuresons.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/offseason-observations-by-andrew-part-i/

Part II is here: http://futuresons.wordpress.com/2011/08/29/offseason-observations-by-andrew-part-ii/

I tried to cover just about every player personnel move we made. I'm sure I missed some but the important ones are there.

[Dro89]

Steve before Jarvis got hurt had you changed your stance on how they passed up on what you were referring to the elite 3-4DEs? I actually LOVED what i saw from Jarvis..

[Going Commando]

Steve before Jarvis got hurt had you changed your stance on how they passed up on what you were referring to the elite 3-4DEs? I actually LOVED what i saw from Jarvis..

Jarvis surprised the hell out of me with how well he was able to generate pressures in the preseason. This was a guy who had four career sacks at Clemson after all.

But it's not so much that Jenkins himself changed my soreness on passing over Cameron Jordan for him. It was signing Cofield, Bowen, and the spectacular emergence of Ryan Kerrigan.

Right now, Kerrigan looks so good that I would don't want to give him up to take a chance Brooks Reed or Justin Houston. Granted, Brooks Reed has been awesome this preseason too. But Kerrigan fits us so well, I never could have predicted he would look this good standing up right now. Especially as a run defender. That's been the biggest revelation of all.

Getting Bowen and Cofield plus Jenkins and already having Carriker basically erased the need for a dynamic everydown player like Cameron Jordan. We've got a really nice platoon of defensive ends to choose from, and Cofield and Jenkins can even play NT. Between those four and Darion Scott, we've got five really effective players out of a seven man group. My guess is that the remaining two spots will go to a true backup NT like Anthony Bryant or Chris Neild and another swing NT/DE like Kedric Golston. If Jarvis Jenkins goes on IR, then all three probably make the roster and we see a lot more of Cofield at DE this season than we would have otherwise.

That group has me feeling really good about the state of our defensive line, which is night and day different than the way I felt about it before the draft. Back then it felt like we only had one decent DL (Carriker) and maybe Bryant was worth something, but nobody really looked like a good pass rusher. Now we've got several and it doesn't really make or break us if Jenkins never becomes good at generating pressure in the passing game.

---------- Post added August-29th-2011 at 09:04 PM ----------

Good post gore, I enjoyed reading it. I won't quote the whole thing, but I wanted to say I agreed with almost every part of it except for a few assessments of our needs.

Personally, I just don't see WR as a huge need for us. There is definitely room for a big stud Andre Johnson-esque or Brandon Marshall type receiver in this offense. But I don't think it's a necessity given the quality of depth we've got. Our group reminds me of the group the Packers have had the past several seasons. Moss is the sure veteran like Donald Driver, Armstrong is the big play lower receptions guy like Greg Jennings. And Terrence Austin, Leonard Hankerson, Niles Paul, Jabar Gaffney, and Aldrick Robinson form a nice constellation of depth and developmental options that we can bring along to run an effective passing offense. And our weapons are augmented by having Fred Davis and Chris Cooley as such effective receiving tight ends.

I agree with what you say about corners, running backs, and interior offensive linemen being minimized in importance and draft value by our schemes. I do think it'd be nice to get some really good interior linemen though, I don't entirely trust Montgomery, Lichtensteiger, and Chester quite yet. We'll have a good idea of where they are at by the end of the season.

But if those positions are minimized in importance and draft value by our scheme, OLB, ILB, and Safety are expanded in importance. We're set at OLB but I'm not sure we're set at S for the long term. Atogwe won't play well forever and Landry's Achilles is starting to worry me a bit. We might need to spend a high pick on a safety as soon as the 2013 or 2014 drafts.

ILB is the one position I'd really like to see us get a blue chipper at sooner rather than later. Ideally, we'd take advantage of back to back strong ILB classes and get two big time starters to create the most impressive group of linebackers in the NFL.

Also OT concerns me more than it concerns you. I really like Trent and think he'll settle in as a Probowl caliber LT sooner rather than later. But JB isn't really elite any more IMO. He's 30 and has an injury history and felt a bit like an emergency signing to me. I think we need to bring in a developmental replacement for him ASAP. It doesn't necessarily need to be a first or second round pick since this is a RT and he'll have a chance to sit and develop. I'd be pretty thrilled about getting a good player like Nate Potter or Matt Reynolds in a third or fourth round range.

[Dukes and Skins]

Steve I'm down to do that as well so those 3 and then I'll look around and decide on other material. Just started classes again today so we'll see how the whole time management goes

[bird_1972]

...

Nice post.

Only concern about your projected 2012 draft is that it's light on the OL.

We neglected OL for the most part this year so we really need the depth next year.

[Dro89]

how would you guys rank the top 5 QBs in accuracy? Kirk seems to get praise about his accuracy. While Lindley doesnt get the same praise.

[Going Commando]

how would you guys rank the top 5 QBs in accuracy? Kirk seems to get praise about his accuracy. While Lindley doesnt get the same praise.

I'm not sure yet. I've seen enough to say with confidence that both Andrew Luck and Kirk Cousins are accurate passers with a good command of their offenses and high efficiency ratings. I think Nick Foles also has some high efficiency ratings but It's been almost a year since I've really watched him, I'd have to go back and look.

I'm looking forward to watching Tannehill and Weeden to assess them. I'll let you know what I think after I do. Weeden was a highly regarded pitching prospect. My gut tells me that he'll be an extremely accurate passer with a ton of velocity. So far, he's the Senior who's physical skill set intrigues me the most.

[GWinSkins83]

I think Ryan Lindley is the real deal. I think he is very accurate as a passer out there. I seen a lot of drops and he doesnt have the time as the top prospects. One thing I notice is he attacks all levels of the defense and every part of the field. He also make quick decisions. He has a quick release and a rocket arm. I think he is a gunsliger though and trys throws he should not but that can be coached. I've seen mocks with him going in the third. I mean if we can get him mid to late 2nd would be the steal of the draft. This dude is a francise QB and under Mike and Kyle and setting him for 2 years and stacking this team we can see a deeppppppp team with a francise QB like the Packers. I also have some other players I like Juron Criner which is a bonafide #1 but will probably get drafted in the 3rd. He is big, fast, explosive, good body control, and comes down with most jump balls. Another WR is Muhammed Sanu he is a Big WR that is explosive and hard to bring down. He also is a nasty blocker. Those are some of the people I checked out. Im going to check out OG/OC and RT tommorow. I did look up some and its a lot of good prospects in this group.