2011 FA/LOCKOUT/UDFA Tweets from TK, Jsteelz, LL56 and others **MOSS/COFIELD/STALLWORTH/WILSON/BOWEN/CHESTER & OTHERS AGREES TO DEALSl + JARMON TRADED TO DEN FOR GAFFNEY/MCNABB TRADED TO MINNY/HAYNESWORTH TRADED TO NE + RABACH/PD93/KEMO & OTH

[KCClybun]

Looking at T-Jack from just a talent standpoint, why wouldn't Mike take a look at him?

He's mobile, he's got a pretty big arm. He's relatively young, which means he'll be open to coaching. He'll come dirt friggin' cheap, and he's a good developmental project. He's relatively accurate, he just has to stay healthy, and we know Mike believes in his ability to groom quarterbacks.

No one is saying the guy should come in and start for us, but again; Mike carries four quarterbacks into training camp. If Beck and Grossman are one and two, you're going to need a third and forth guy. That's why T-Jack is getting looked at. Not to be a savior, but to see what the guy has. Mike and Kyle both are confident in their ability to groom quarterbacks, after all.

Let's not get in a tizzy over the guy yet.

[Diesel__44]

Entertaining thread. Fun to read all the fish feeding on every crumb thrown into the the fish bowl.

[sportjunkie07]

Looking at T-Jack from just a talent standpoint, why wouldn't Mike take a look at him?

He's mobile, he's got a pretty big arm. He's relatively young, which means he'll be open to coaching. He'll come dirt friggin' cheap, and he's a good developmental project. He's relatively accurate,

.... and he sucks. this is one guy i remember not wanting instead of jason campbell. i would much rather go with rex or beck.

[KCClybun]

Thanks TK. I feel *a little* better now.

The thing I don't like about Young is that as bad as Gardner and Clarett's issues were, they were at least off the field issues. Not that I approve of that either, but when Young melts down, he takes the whole team down with him. Even signing him to a cheep one year contract would be an instant distraction.

I want us to become a smart, unselfish, hard working TEAM. And I just don't see how Vince Young fits with that goal.

Dude, pretty much anyone we sign will become a distraction somehow. If we sign Tarvaris Jackson, the talk will be immediately be over whether he should start over Grossman or Beck and whether or not it was a bonehead move. We sign Kris Jenkins and the talk becomes whether or not he can replace Haynesworth and whether or not this is a typical Redskins move. We sign top tier talent, we get criticized, we sign second tier guys, it's "why didn't the Redskins spend money to sign guys" and how we didn't do enough to improve.

Trust me, we can sign an entire draft class and free agency class of high character guys, and inevitably someone will say something stupid enough to become a training camp distraction. Hell, McNabb and Haynesworth will be distractions long after they're gone.

[Going Commando]

I just don't see it, stats or skills. I am sorry, the dude had AP in his backfield and he still couldn't produce.

He's not that bad. DG is right, he's better and more proven than most of the FA QBs out there. He's had strangely bad luck throughout his career and has suffered from tepid organizational support. He was bad early in his career (most QBs are) and has had a bad rap ever since despite the fact he's actually been a solid starting QB recently.

He's like David Garrard in that the general perception of him is that he's a much worse QB than he actually is. Watch him play a couple of games and you'll see he's not a bad QB. He's not great either but certainly not awful. He's probably a little bit better than Jason Campbell. I'd say he's better than McNabb at this point in McNabb's career.

[KCClybun]

.... and he sucks. this is one guy i remember not wanting instead of jason campbell. i would much rather go with rex or beck.

Yeah, and I'm saying Rex and Beck will be number one and two (one of them will start and one will be the back-up) and T-Jack would be the third string developmental guy, not that he'd come in and compete for a job right away.

Ya can't sign everybody to potentially be a starter, especially at the quarterback position, but you can identify guys you like and hope to develop, and maybe it does work out and maybe it doesn't, but it's their right to chose.

Not to mention I get the feeling Mike could give two left shoes about what any of us think about anyone he signs.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Why does this forum hate on every non-Redskins QB other then the big name guys?

T.Jack is one of the best FA QBs on the market.

If so, it says more about the FA market than it does Jackson.

According to Football Outsiders, the QB he most resembles over the last three seasons is Matt Leinart. That's not a compliment lol...

---------- Post added July-16th-2011 at 11:53 PM ----------

Yeah, and I'm saying Rex and Beck will be number one and two (one of them will start and one will be the back-up) and T-Jack would be the third string developmental guy, not that he'd come in and compete for a job right away.

I prefer "developmental" QBs to be in their early 20s, and to have been drafted if possible. At least then you can mold them from day 1, and in 3-4 years they'll be just at the beginning of their primes. Plus, I doubt too many QBs who have started before (and started in the playoffs) are gonna sign on the dotted line to be a 3rd string QB on a team that has had two winning seasons in the last 11 years.

[KCClybun]

I prefer "developmental" QBs to be in their early 20s, and to have been drafted if possible. At least then you can mold them from day 1, and in 3-4 years they'll be just at the beginning of their primes. Plus, I doubt too many QBs who have started before (and started in the playoffs) are gonna sign on the dotted line to be a 3rd string QB on a team that has had two winning seasons in the last 11 years.

What choice does Tarvaris Jackson have? I mean, pretty much anyone that's going to take a flyer on him is going to sign him to either be the back-up, or be the third string guy. He's barely gotten a mention during the lockout for quarterbacks who will get signed, until JLC cherry picked the story from 'round these here parts. Certainly no one is going to ask him to come in and be the starter right away. The guy doesn't have a lot of choices, whether the Redskins win every year or haven't won in forever.

I don't see him being in high demand, and I think Mike can sell him on what he wants him to do as a team.

[Destructis]

ACW is what happens when you spend all of your ES time over in Tailgate.

---------- Post added July-16th-2011 at 10:26 PM ----------

Why so serious?

Ever since you guys started talking about it, I have been so curious about the bat signal. I am not always serious, it was me that posted the comment about the Daddy's Girl tattoo LL56 retweeted. LOL He still haven't given me her number /sad

[Chump Bailey]

I think RT is the biggest weakness on the OL and I'm surprised/dismayed that Jammal Brown is the front runner for the position.

It's cool DG, normally I agree with your eye, but in this case, I cannot with regard to Brown and Heyer. Heyer is an OG at this level IMO and I've said as much for some time now. I was a fan of his, but he just does not have the feet to play OT. I stand by what I said about JB. Were you to ask 31 teams who they'd like at RT between a healthy Brown, Heyer and Harris - i bet it would be Brown by a wide margin. Brown also played well against Clay Matthews without help last season. Not an easy task obviously especially when our RG position is in question too. Brown is nasty and plays with an attitude. He's a good OT. If we don't bring him back for anything other than money concerns, I would be very surprised. Brown at RT is a good thing

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jammal-brown/healthy-jammal-brown-im-becomi.html

Healthy Jammal Brown: 'I'm becoming my old self'

By Jason Reid

For much of the season, right tackle Jammal Brown has not performed as effectively as the Redskins envisioned when they traded a conditional third-round pick to New Orleans for the two-time Pro Bowler.Brown missed the entire 2009 season after having two surgeries in two weeks to repair a sports hernia and a torn labrum. The Redskins expected Brown to start slowly while still recovering from the groin and hip problems, but the process was much longer than they expected.

There were rumblings within the organization that the Redskins had made a mistake, but things have changed.

With his hip pain -- Brown's biggest problem this season -- decreasing significantly in recent weeks, the six-year veteran recently has displayed the athleticism and toughness Redskins coaches noticed on game film during his first four seasons with the Saints. Brown is coming off a solid performance against Dallas star linebacker DeMarcus Ware in a 33-30 loss, and the Redskins are optimistic that Brown is finally reverting to form as the season closes.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

What choice does Tarvaris Jackson have? I mean, pretty much anyone that's going to take a flyer on him is going to sign him to either be the back-up, or be the third string guy. He's barely gotten a mention during the lockout for quarterbacks who will get signed, until JLC cherry picked the story from 'round these here parts. Certainly no one is going to ask him to come in and be the starter right away. The guy doesn't have a lot of choices, whether the Redskins win every year or haven't won in forever.

I don't see him being in high demand, and I think Mike can sell him on what he wants him to do as a team.

that brings up three issues, then:

1) If he really is an afterthought in pretty much every front office in the league, then that should be a sign that he's probably not worth "developing"...try and get an UDFA quarterback instead.

2) Being a 2nd string QB is much better than being the emergency 3rd string QB. A lot of 2nd string QBs seen playing time...so even if a team wants him as their #2 that's better than coming here to be "developed" as a #3 QB.

3) If he really can't be anything but a #3 QB on any team, he might as well sign with a team that has a realistic chance at the playoffs and postseason success.

[Going Commando]

I don't remember Brown being that good against Matthews last season CB. That was the first game I really noticed how slow he looked. He gave up some pressures in one on one situations against Matthews, spent a lot of the day lunging, and had to commit more than a few holds to tread water (most of which went unflagged, including a pretty egregious hold in the end zone that should have been called for a safety IIRC).

I agree that Brown is better than Heyer. I suppose he is better than Harris. Both are players that have struggled heavily with injuries the past few seasons, so neither are ideal. The difference between the two is that Brown is 30 and probably looking to sign a good sized deal and Harris is still in his mid 20s.

[Chump Bailey]

I don't remember Brown being that good against Matthews last season CB. That was the first game I really noticed how slow he looked. He gave up some pressures in one on one situations against Matthews, spent a lot of the day lunging, and had to commit more than a few holds to tread water (most of which went unflagged, including a pretty egregious hold in the end zone that should have been called for a safety IIRC).

I agree that Brown is better than Heyer. I suppose he is better than Harris. Both are players that have struggled heavily with injuries the past few seasons, so neither are ideal. The difference between the two is that Brown is 30 and probably looking to sign a good sized deal and Harris is still in his mid 20s.

I will maintain that a healthy Jammal Brown is better than Harris. I would not mind in the least if we choose him over Brown though. Mike knows him best of course. Maybe my memory of the GB game is in question. I know JB did not stone CM and did allow pressure that day, but overall, if memory serves, he played pretty well overall. Actually, I think you're right steve. JB might have struggled in that game. Anyone but Heyer at RT is doable IMO.

[darrelgreenie]

I just don't see it, stats or skills. I am sorry, the dude had AP in his backfield and he still couldn't produce.

Tarvaris Jackson-(career 19 starts) 3,984---58.7 comp%---24 TDs/22 INTs---76.6 QBR---535 rushing

Remember when Jackson QB'd the Vikes into the playoffs:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d80da1615/NFLTA-Viking-way

Then Farve showed up the following season.

---------- Post added July-17th-2011 at 09:00 AM ----------

Looking at T-Jack from just a talent standpoint, why wouldn't Mike take a look at him?

He's mobile, he's got a pretty big arm. He's relatively young, which means he'll be open to coaching. He'll come dirt friggin' cheap, and he's a good developmental project. He's relatively accurate, he just has to stay healthy, and we know Mike believes in his ability to groom quarterbacks.

No one is saying the guy should come in and start for us, but again; Mike carries four quarterbacks into training camp. If Beck and Grossman are one and two, you're going to need a third and forth guy. That's why T-Jack is getting looked at. Not to be a savior, but to see what the guy has. Mike and Kyle both are confident in their ability to groom quarterbacks, after all.

Let's not get in a tizzy over the guy yet.

But...but....that's what we do here we get into a tizzy about every possible scenario.

I actually agree w/ you 100% on Jackson's skillset being a good fit for Mike Shanahan's offense.

But, I think he's a bad fit for Kyle.

I know you/a lot of people don't see the difference (not tryin to re-hash the whole thing) but I just think that Mike and Kyle require 2 different type of QBs.

---------- Post added July-17th-2011 at 09:03 AM ----------

I don't see him being in high demand, and I think Mike can sell him on what he wants him to do as a team.

Because of the lockout I think Seattle will want him because Bevell (sp?) is the OC and he's gonna run the WCO and Jackson already knows the system/terminology.

I'm pretty sure that Jackson would be Whitehurst in training camp; provided Hasselbeck doesn't return.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I actually agree w/ you 100% on Jackson's skillset being a good fit for Mike Shanahan's offense.

But, I think he's a bad fit for Kyle.

I know you/a lot of people don't see the difference (not tryin to re-hash the whole thing) but I just think that Mike and Kyle require 2 different type of QBs.

Some would say (ok, that would be me), do away with Kyle period and give full control of the offense back to dad ..... but ya' know.

Hail.

[darrelgreenie]

It's cool DG, normally I agree with your eye, but in this case, I cannot with regard to Brown and Heyer. Heyer is an OG at this level IMO and I've said as much for some time now. I was a fan of his, but he just does not have the feet to play OT. I stand by what I said about JB. Were you to ask 31 teams who they'd like at RT between a healthy Brown, Heyer and Harris - i bet it would be Brown by a wide margin. Brown also played well against Clay Matthews without help last season. Not an easy task obviously especially when our RG position is in question too. Brown is nasty and plays with an attitude. He's a good OT. If we don't bring him back for anything other than money concerns, I would be very surprised. Brown at RT is a good thing

Well to be clear; I also think Jammal Brown is better then Stephon Heyer.

That's wasn't the point of my post.

I think Jammal Brown is replaceable, he's in the bottom half of the league in pressures over the last 3 seasons.

I think its a misguided expectation to hope that an aging, injured OL like Jammal Brown or (Samuels, Dockery, Mike Williams etc) returns to form when there are other OTs out there that are younger and are already playing at the same level as Jammal Brown was last year or playing right now at the level we're hoping Jammal Brown will reach/return to/improve to next year.

I wouldn't even be opposed to giving Oldenburg and Capers+Heyer+journeymen FA OT a shot at the job during training camp with the expectation that they could be better then bottom half in the league.

[grego]

dg, those stats could be skewed cuz of his year off and bad start to last year (i'm guessing if he was hurt his last year in NO when he was playing then his numbers wouldnt look good, but i dont know when he got hurt or if he played hurt like he did last year).

i do think he's worth signing due to his familiarity with the system after a year in it, and the fact that all indications were he played better at the end of the season when he was healthier. not to mention the pick we gave up for him.

[darrelgreenie]

dg, those stats could be skewed cuz of his year off and bad start to last year (i'm guessing if he was hurt his last year in NO when he was playing then his numbers wouldnt look good, but i dont know when he got hurt or if he played hurt like he did last year).

i do think he's worth signing due to his familiarity with the system after a year in it, and the fact that all indications were he played better at the end of the season when he was healthier. not to mention the pick we gave up for him.

PFF's stats aren't skewed by his year off because the stat measures snaps played/pressures allowed.

All NFL lineman plays with varrying levels of pain/injury but if you're going to chalk up Jammal's Browns poor play over 1,000+ snaps to injury then at what point do you consider wether his injury is chronic?

Do you think Jammal Brown is the best OT available via FA?

[grego]

i actually like gaither - partially due to his MD connections. but i believe he graded out very well according to PFF. according to the sun, however, the coaches dont love his work ethic. if the scuttlebut is true about TW, we'd have 2 tackles with all world talent and no desire to work hard. not sure how i feel about that.

i wouldnt mind harris. i thought i had read that his injuries werent the kind i'd be worried about, like it was a broken leg or something. not chronic knee problems like kelly. could be wrong.

can we bring back bugel?

[Chump Bailey]

I wouldn't even be opposed to giving Oldenburg and Capers+Heyer+journeymen FA OT a shot at the job during training camp with the expectation that they could be better then bottom half in the league.

I would love it if Capers could emerge as our RT.

[kubstix]

We are trading back to the Raiders for Jason Campbell?

[KCClybun]

PFF's stats aren't skewed by his year off because the stat measures snaps played/pressures allowed.

All NFL lineman plays with varrying levels of pain/injury but if you're going to chalk up Jammal's Browns poor play over 1,000+ snaps to injury then at what point do you consider wether his injury is chronic?

Do you think Jammal Brown is the best OT available via FA?

But that's the thing that keeps giving my pause; if you're measuring his performance over a three year period, he missed all of 2009. That means he didn't play any snaps in 2009. So shouldn't his snap count be lower, which would adversely affect his rankings?

Again, this is why I think stats and numbers lie sometimes. They don't tell the whole story.

[TK]

Ever since you guys started talking about it, I have been so curious about the bat signal. I am not always serious, it was me that posted the comment about the Daddy's Girl tattoo LL56 retweeted. LOL He still haven't given me her number /sad

The bat signal, as we've said before, is an inside joke between the three of us. "why so serious" was a bat reference you didn't get.

Her number is 867-5309.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

We are trading back to the Raiders for Jason Campbell?

IF that's the case, then please, I beg of you, let the lock-out go on!

Hail.

[Fdallas4Life12]

TK, LL56, and Jsteelz, have you all heard anything about a change at Center this year? Be it by one of our own guys or a FA signing? This is my biggest concern on the team and just wanted to know what you have heard if anything and what your opinion on that position is. Thanks