ESPN -- Starting Beck is No Tank Job

[DeaconBlue]

Wouldn't kemp be the only applicable one, and maybe Jake if it was different NO coaches that cut him

Hey, You're making the rules to this little side discussion, so I suppose nobody would count if YOU felt like it. Personally I beleive all the examples given fit. Does that prove in any way that he will succeed? No. But neither does Becks history that you point to mean he will fail either. Im willing tro give that kid a chance. Besides even if he turns out horrible there will be plenty of time for me to lament after the fact So keep wringing your hands. Ill just stay hopeful and save my ire til when/if its actually necessary.

[HailGreen28]

Jim Plunkett, of the Superbowl-not-to-be-mentioned, was drafted by the Pats, traded to the Niners, who cut him, then Oakland picked him up. I am deliberately forgetting what happened after that, but Plunkett has two rings with the Raiders.

[Mahons21]

Hey, You're making the rules to this little side discussion, so I suppose nobody would count if YOU felt like it.

I asked a question if you didn't want to answer you didn't have to. I counted all parties that satisfied the question that was asked.

Personally I beleive all the examples given fit.

My question was what QB's have essentially been cut by two teams and went on to be successful. Kemp would be an example, and possibly Delhomme if two separate FO's in NO had cut him.

But neither does Becks history that you point to mean he will fail either.

I never said he will fail, I said he has a low probability of success based on the history of the NFL, it's an accurate statement.

Tom Brady is a perfect example of how a QB can be found in the later rounds, but based on the history of the NFL 6th rd QB's don't have a high-probability of success either. So I won't be holding my breath waiting for a 6th rd QB to come along and be the Skins starter.

Im willing tro give that kid a chance. Besides even if he turns out horrible there will be plenty of time for me to lament after the fact So keep wringing your hands. Ill just stay hopeful and save my ire til when/if its actually necessary.

Who said I'm not willing to give him a chance? All I've said is he has a low probability of success, based on history. I have no ire, but I don't have a false hope in him either, he's a QB that's been on the bottom of the depth chart of numerous teams, who's professional opinion I value much more than yours or mine.

[darrelgreenie]

but I don't have a false hope in him either, he's a QB that's been on the bottom of the depth chart of numerous teams, who's professional opinion I value much more than yours or mine.

If being cut was a true barometer for ability then the league would be a bleaker place.

The Dolphins one of the FO whose opinion you value gifted us AA.

Also Beck was acquired by Mike Shanahan via trade that should count for something right?

As should Mike's history with "reject" players.

Here's some links about Beck's skillset:

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2011/07/06/emerging-nfl-talents-qb-john-beck-redskins/

Greg Cosell:

http://blog.redskins.com/2011/05/18/back-on-the-beckwagon-greg-cosell-weighs-in/

[Coach Janky Spanky]

Good assessment of the fact that getting a star QB at this very moment is simply not really essential. I like reading that. People always ask me why we didn't draft a QB, what our answer is, etc...and my thought really is just that we have so many other worries and are just not that close to competing yet, that the QB position doesn't concern me as much as developing the team long-term in a healthy way to lead to sustained success.

[darrelgreenie]

I'm banking on Mike Shanahan.

He's not gonna tank the season.

Mike Shanahan knows QBs and I expect whomever he picks at QB to play well.

[TheShredder]

I thought most teams kept 3 QBs. I think teams like NE, Indy, SD keep only 2.

It's more common to keep 2 QB's with one as the starter and one as the backup and 3 when you have an understudy.

I can easily see how MS can go into camp with a Beck/Grossman competition and a walk on or two that are available without much cost.

The Skins are looking at building a top 5 defense and a running game behind a revamped OL. That indicates free agent acquisitions at G, C, and a RT. Also expecting a CB that can be at least a true #2 and a true NT vet.

I don't believe that the Skins are planning on tanking the season for Luck as that's absurd and unrealistic. You don't play for a draft pick in pro sports.

One possible FA that might end up on a 2011 Skins roster is Plaxico Burress. That's definitely a fit that I can imagine MS would consider and that DS would easily sign off on. He would be more valuable in 2012 as he uses 2011 to get in the groove again with a new attitude and renewed lease on his career.

Remember the Ravens coming into contention with a emphasis on building a #1 defense and an offense that ran the ball...it was well known that they needed a QB (Trent Dilfer) that simply wouldn't loose the game....That was a winning combination that shouldn't be discounted. For all intense purposes, the addition of FS O.J. Atogwe and the draft that included Kerrigan are distinct indicators to the hand the 2011 Redskins are set to play out. A true NT and addition of a first class CB could be coming in short order vs any additions at QB.

There is also a possibility that a major trade could be in the plans with the aim to fill these needs. I wouldn't put it past MS to trade one of our beloved TE's or even Pro Bowler Chris Cooley. A package of trading the likes of AH and Chris Cooley to get some holes filled aren't far fetched. It just doesn't make any sense to trade or acquire a QB by using any draft picks or trades as DM5 exits. MS doesn't need John Elway #2, nor do I see how any of the moves or positioning indicate that this is the plan.

$.02

---------- Post added July-7th-2011 at 07:41 PM ----------

Good assessment of the fact that getting a star QB at this very moment is simply not really essential. I like reading that. People always ask me why we didn't draft a QB, what our answer is, etc...and my thought really is just that we have so many other worries and are just not that close to competing yet, that the QB position doesn't concern me as much as developing the team long-term in a healthy way to lead to sustained success.

I completely agree. I don't see the need at QB either. Beck or Grossman or whoever at this junction. A solid OL and young RB's to eat up the clock as a top notch defense keeps them in every game.

[Goingforburgundy]

Do I think we will "tank" the season? Absolutely not. Do I think were playing Beck or Grossman because everyone and their mothers knows we need a QB for the foreseeable future? Do I think we will have a pretty bad season regardless of the 2 QBs we "currently" have? Yes

[Pedro]

It's John Beck, people. Sure he may turn out OK, but he's not the next Tom Brady that kinda snuck onto the scene behind Drew Bledsoe. Lets not kid ourselves here.

Tom Brady out of college with the Redskins of recent years (hopefully not this year ) isn't the next Tom Brady either. Situation does count in team sports.

With McNabb on the way out due to financial reasons

McNabb is on the way out because he didn't run the O like the OC wanted him to. We signed him to that contract so we can hold him until he is worthless to almost all the other NFL teams, be it to give us a chance to get value or boot him up the ass on the way out the door.

I'm not sure how people think we'll be a top ten pick team in year 2, regardless of QB, but sig bets are welcome

EDIT: Top ten by way of record rather than trade BTW

[darrelgreenie]

If Mike Shanahan thinks the Burgundy and Gold has the best chance to win next year with QB X then who are we to question it?

I don't understand the reasoning that makes people think Mike Shanahan would willfully enter a season with a QB he can't win with?

[paloosa]

It was a good article - thanks for posting it.

I can see Beck being successful

Get some help on the right side of the OL

I think the WR & RB production will be there

Get a NT and possibly DE

I do think CB is a need however but perhaps we can get by with Buchanon for the time being. I also think Rod Hood might be a good option too.

So how can you see Beck being successful? What makes a 30 year old QB with a handful of starts in the NFL show that he is going to be successful? This is his third team and couldn't beat out Chad Henne in Miami and was the third string on the Ravens. SO again I ask where does that show success? Besides Shanahan has not given Beck or anyone else the starting job.He also has not said that McNabb was gone from the team or that Grossman was in their long or short term plans. Beck and McNabb are on the roster but Grossman is not. So all this talk about McNabb being gone, Beck going to be the starter and Grossman being in the mix has never been confirmed by Allen, Shanahan or Snyder. So until that happens no one in the media, the fans on here and yes myself, do not know what their plan is.

[whitejimmy]

I don't think "tank" is the right word, but I support the FO decision not to sell out to win it all this year. That was the plan for all the previous Snyder years and it has gotten us no where. The FO is drafting and signing players that provide good value. They recognize that there are many holes to fill. As they've openly stated, we're in rebuilding mode, so why overspend for an older QB who can only be a band-aid or draft a QB that you don't think is capable of eventually getting you to the SB? In short, the FO is not in the tank, they are just entering the second year of a (constantly evolving) three-year plan.

[ATLredskin]

Mike Shanahan knows QBs and I expect whomever he picks at QB to play well.

Yeah he knew Donovan...

[darrelgreenie]

Yeah he knew Donovan...

He knew McNabb the player not McNabb the person.

And I think the personality issues with Kyle was the failure w/ McNabb more then a poor evaluation of talent.

In Beck's case he knows the player and the person in more detail then he knew McNabb.

What's more the failure of McNabb is even more reason Mike is motivated to insure whichever QB he chooses this time has success.

[ATLredskin]

Let me tell you guys something. The last thing we need is John Beck or Grossman having a good season. We are suppose to go into the 2012 offseason aiming for a QB and I don't want anything blurring that picture. People saying we can still draft a Landry Jones(?) and trade the other if Jones succeeds is a little delusional, because we have two good TEs and we're not trading one of them to get better at another position...

[Rudechain]

Backup QB's always a fan favorite. Beck's accomplished nothing, and has been cut by two FO's already in his career despite being a 2nd-rd draft pick, the probability of him achieving any level of success, based on the history of the NFL is extremely low, saying otherwise is incorrect.

Are their any QB's that have essentially been cut by two teams(or similar circumstances) that have gone on to be successful? For clarification I say he was cut by two teams because the player we traded to BAL for Beck was cut by their staff later that week, so he basically was as valuable to them as a player they cut.

Kurt Warner would be the only guy I could see having a chance.

Well Johnny Unitas was drafted by the Steelers and was released before the season began.

Jake Delhome was cut from the Saints three times (97, 98 and 99) but managed to take Carolina to the Super Bowl.

Mike Ditka was the HC for all three years.

Jack Kemp was drafted by the Lions and cut before the season began. He was on the taxi squad for Pittsburgh and the Giants.

Finally he ended up with Sid Gillman in San Diego and took the Bolts to the western conference championship. Then traded to the Bills where he took them to the playoffs 4 times.

[Floodzone004]

I don't know why having opinions is seemingly offensive to people. Some people don't like Beck, some people like him, some people are somewhere in the middle. The anti-beck people seem to be furious that people feel differently then they do.

I for one think he's got potential. Not saying he'll be a top 10 QB. I'd say there's just as good of a chance he doesn't work out than he does.

And for the people who are listing that the Dolphins letting him go as a huge con to Beck, you really think the organization that drafted Pat White in the second round was real competent? Wasn't it Parcells who said Cooley would never be more than a spot player? Using the Dolphins organization is like saying a player cut from us clearly can't play in the NFL. I don't think I need to make a list of former skins players that went on to play well for other teams.

[Burgold]

I would say most people should be in the wait and see mode when it comes to Beck. He didn't prove out in Miami, never really had a shot in Baltimore, and so is somewhat of an unknown quantity. He could turn out to be a Rich Gannon or Brad Johnson. Someone who was thought to be pretty blah and suddenly emerges. The ultimate miracle would be a Kurt Warner type of athletic resurrection. Then again, maybe he is a poor qb and that's why everyone previously gave up on him and he just doesn't have "it"

Honestly, I have no clue. I like his "leadership" during the player run OTAs. That makes me want to root for him. I like that he sought out the rooks and tried to make sure they had a playbook and worked with them. Supposedly, he's doing all he can do to prepare. So, while I can't say who he'll be if he takes a snap under center, I have been given reasons to back him.

Besides, he's the only qb under contract (other than McNabb who's practicing with the Eagles)

[Chump Bailey]

So how can you see Beck being successful?

*MS has stated that Beck ran an offense at BYU similar to the one we use

* He's accurate

*Good decision making ability

*Smart

*Quick release

*Good feet

*Solid throwing mechanics

[LightningBuggs]

I don't think "tank" is the right word, but I support the FO decision not to sell out to win it all this year. That was the plan for all the previous Snyder years and it has gotten us no where. The FO is drafting and signing players that provide good value. They recognize that there are many holes to fill. As they've openly stated, we're in rebuilding mode, so why overspend for an older QB who can only be a band-aid or draft a QB that you don't think is capable of eventually getting you to the SB? In short, the FO is not in the tank, they are just entering the second year of a (constantly evolving) three-year plan.

Well said. I don't think the team would be necessarily "tanking" the season by going with Beck, but there are better short-term options out there. Band-aids, as you correctly call them.

So, I see it as riding out this year with what you have, and waiting for much better, and longer term, upgrades next year. Therefore, the season could well be unintentionally "tanked" as a result of this plan.

And, again, I'm fine with that.

[tex]

When Beck was on the field for the Redskins last year he looked a little skittish. We'll see.

[Mahons21]

*MS has stated that Beck ran an offense at BYU similar to the one we use

And Grossman has been with Kyle for how many years?

* He's accurate

Have you watched him? He certainly doesn't possess some over the top accuracy where I would point to his accuarcy as reasoning as to why he will succeed. The guy had a 51 comp % in the preseason, and was at 56% in MIA

*Good decision making ability

*Smart

This is really just you starting to go over talking points, that mean nothing to you. The man has 1 TD and 3 INT, 7 fumbles in his 5 actual starts and you think he's a good decision maker.

*Quick release

Nothing overly impressive.

*Good feet

When rolling out of the pocket, not when inside the pocket.

*Solid throwing mechanics

You should real go back and watch Beck with an objective eye, the above statement suggests you have not done so.

I'm not against Beck, but people need to start being realistic, Beck will most likely be our 3rd string QB this season. Had MS seen this level of faith some suggest he would have played him down the stretch last year, instead they chose to go with Grossman. Had Parcells had some level of faith in him he wouldn't have drafted Henne and traded for Pennington. Had Ozzie Newsome had some faith in him he wouldn't have been the 4th QB on their depth chart, and traded for a ham sandwich.

Not saying skinscast is the end all be all, but they've all been covering the Redskins for countless years and are privy to more information than you and I, virtually every member of the podcast laughed off the idea of John Beck being our starter day 1.

[darrelgreenie]

And Grossman has been with Kyle for how many years?

Have you watched him? He certainly doesn't possess some over the top accuracy where I would point to his accuarcy as reasoning as to why he will succeed. The guy had a 51 comp % in the preseason, and was at 56% in MIA

This is really just you starting to go over talking points, that mean nothing to you. The man has 1 TD and 3 INT, 7 fumbles in his 5 actual starts and you think he's a good decision maker.

Nothing overly impressive.

When rolling out of the pocket, not when inside the pocket.

You should real go back and watch Beck with an objective eye, the above statement suggests you have not done so.

I'm not against Beck, but people need to start being realistic, Beck will most likely be our 3rd string QB this season. Had MS seen this level of faith some suggest he would have played him down the stretch last year, instead they chose to go with Grossman. Had Parcells had some level of faith in him he wouldn't have drafted Henne and traded for Pennington. Had Ozzie Newsome had some faith in him he wouldn't have been the 4th QB on their depth chart, and traded for a ham sandwich.

Not saying skinscast is the end all be all, but they've all been covering the Redskins for countless years and are privy to more information than you and I, virtually every member of the podcast laughed off the idea of John Beck being our starter day 1.

^^^^^^

I don't know why having opinions is seemingly offensive to people. Some people don't like Beck, some people like him, some people are somewhere in the middle. The anti-beck people seem to be furious that people feel differently then they do.

Mahons, you realize dude is giving his opinion the same as you?

Your opinion is apparently based on Parcells his is based on Mike Shanahan.

[Mahons21]

^^^^^^

I don't find it offensive at all.. I disagreed with his opinion and gave mine, thank you for pointing out the obvious.

Mahons, you realize dude is giving his opinion the same as you?

Yes and if your opinion is that John Beck has good throwing mechanics, then you either don't know anything about football or haven't watched John Beck play with an objective eye, I would imagine someone who has posted 4000+ times on this site knows a thing or two about football... which leaves the other option.

Your opinion is apparently based on Parcells his is based on Mike Shanahan.

huh? This is just incorrect on multiple levels.

Why exactly was your post necessary at all? You didn't give any opinion on the topic, you didn't help moderate the thread and push it back in to line, why even post things like you did above? They seem more personal then related to football.

[darrelgreenie]

Mahons-

Seriously?

Read his post.

Then read your post.

Notice any difference in tone?

Then this: needlessly contentious, aggressive, speculative

Yes and if your opinion is that John Beck has good throwing mechanics, then you either don't know anything about football or haven't watched John Beck play with an objective eye, I would imagine someone who has posted 4000+ times on this site knows a thing or two about football... which leaves the other option.

Your welcome to post anyway you want.

I just that thought that you and this board were a little better then this.

I guess not.

Floodzone remains correct.