CSNwashington.com: Redskins: Changing of the guards in 2011?

[chaught76]

If I can chime in....

First, thanks for the info on Davin Jospeh. Based on the information provided, I am definitely questioning my previous stance on bringing him in.

Next, I think Lichtensteiger was originally a center and would not be surprised to see him start there for us. I am surprised he did as well as he did at guard because the initial reports I read about him indicated he didn't move well, but was perfect at center being so stout and powerful.

Montgomery at one of the guard positions isn't bad. I think the guy has earned a chance to prove it should be his spot.

I am also interested to hear about Mike Williams and if he has future with or not. He seemed like an interesting option because of his freakish strength, size, and quickness.

Finally, I'll throw a name out there for a guard that I haven't heard in discussion yet: Selvish Capers. Capers is a converted tight end who played tackle at WVU. He was pretty good in space, but his lateral foot speed, adjusting to speed rushers is/was questionable. That being said he always had a good punch when pass blocking and moved smoothly and quickly in space. He gets to the second level defenders quickly, but the problem, as I understand it, is he doesn't have a lot of experience pulling and has not yet shown the balance/control needed to engage second level defenders once he get to them. Curious to what you all think about this? Thanks for the discussion.

[Hitman21ST]

Finally, I'll though a name out there for a guard that I haven't heard in discussion yet: Selvish Capers. Capers is a converted tight end who played tackle at WVU. He was pretty good in space, but his lateral foot speed, adjusting to speed rushers is/was questionable. That being said he always had a good punch when pass blocking and moved smoothly and quickly in space. He gets to the second level defenders quickly, but the problem, as I understand it, is he doesn't have a lot of experience pulling and has not yet shown the balance/control needed to engage second level defenders once he get to them. Curious to what you all think about this? Thanks for the discussion.

Capers is an interesting prospect. We drafted him last year (7th round, I think) and he was on the practice squad all season. I had heard reports that he was taking reps at one of the guards during the season. I would kind of like to see him at tackle, because he seems to fit the bill of exactly what we need at a RT. Of course, Heyer began his career at tackle, but when he played guard against the Titans, he actually looked like a good lineman, so it's not out of the question. He's definitely got a good shot at making the 53 this year, and depending on how things play out, he could see some significant PT.

[s0crates]

I found this part of Tandler's article interesting:

So, after undergoing 80 percent turnover on the line last year, do the Redskins really want to have another change of 40 to 60 percent this year? Talent is important but so is continuity.

. . .

The rule of thumb is that an offensive line needs to play together for 1000 snaps before it starts to gel. The current unit has fewer than 400 snaps together. Do Mike Shanahan and company have enough faith in the current unit to give them the work they need to function as a unit? Or will they shake things up again and restart the snap count at zero?

He has a point here. An offensive line needs to play as a unit, which means they need reps together to be good.

I would still like to see us add some talent, but doing so may set us back a bit.

[chaught76]

What good would the Hoover Dam be if the pieces they build it with had holes in them?

I get what he is saying here and agree O-line cohesion from playing together is important, but to what extent can cohesion compensate for diminishing skill and lack of talent?

I mean, all the O-line cohesion in the world is not going to help Rabach from getting pushed into the backfield. Cohesion isn't going to help our RT pass block better.

I found this part of Tandler's article interesting:

He has a point here. An offensive line needs to play as a unit, which means they need reps together to be good.

I would still like to see us add some talent, but doing so may set us back a bit.

[Darth Tater]

What good would the Hoover Dam be if the pieces they build it with had holes in them?

I get what he is saying here and agree O-line cohesion from playing together is important, but to what extent can cohesion compensate for diminishing skill and lack of talent?

I mean, all the O-line cohesion in the world is not going to help Rabach from getting pushed into the backfield. Cohesion isn't going to help our RT pass block better.

Because lack of cohesion is often confused for diminishing skill and lack of talent. Especially by those who don't work with these guys on a daily basis.

[TheShredder]

It's expected to be a busy FA period for the Redskins and a retooling of the OL coming via signings.

Just can't see the Skins making a mistake and paying big bucks for a DB like 29 yr. old Nnamdi Asomugha that has only 3 more INT's than Carlos Rogers.

I would rather build a young OL for Andrew Luck.

[Reaper 21]

please dont put carlos and na in the same sentence. na doesnt have interceptions because absolutley nobody throws his side, he is by far the best cb in the league. but if we could get him and still manage to be active in fa it would have a charles woodson type impact on our defense. but we shouldnt sign him becasue it would be a signfifigant part of money in the secondary.

[blindlywewander]

I think that Harris is an inevitability from what I've seen from the Insider Trio.

I will never, ever understand why Casey Rabach is on the team. Since 2008, I just don't get it.

I think Rabach is on the team because he's smart. With the QB situation the way it's been for a while, Rabach's role is more important. He calls out protections and is one of the smartest players on the team.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that he's regressed. But he's not giving up a sack every play. I think playing him outweighs not playing him at this point. He needs to be replaced, undoubtedly. But I don't think it's that difficult to understand why he's still on the team.

[Hitman21ST]

I think Rabach is on the team because he's smart. With the QB situation the way it's been for a while, Rabach's role is more important. He calls out protections and is one of the smartest players on the team.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that he's regressed. But he's not giving up a sack every play. I think playing him outweighs not playing him at this point. He needs to be replaced, undoubtedly. But I don't think it's that difficult to understand why he's still on the team.

Hopefully he's only being retained as a backup. Monty showed us in the Titans game that he is capable of playing Center at a high level, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Rabach relegated to the #2 spot on the depth chart this season.

[Pedro]

I think Rabach is on the team because he's smart. With the QB situation the way it's been for a while, Rabach's role is more important. He calls out protections and is one of the smartest players on the team.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that he's regressed. But he's not giving up a sack every play. I think playing him outweighs not playing him at this point. He needs to be replaced, undoubtedly. But I don't think it's that difficult to understand why he's still on the team.

I'm sure he's a great guy but from a production stand point he's a turnstyle. He must have photos of Mike and a Beagle or something because we were much better with Montgomery at C and Heyer at G than Rabach at C and everyone we played at G.

I'd rather upgrade C and play Heyer at RT than go another year with Casey. Easier to game plan around a weak edge than centre. Tired of seeing the QB get stood on or the RB hit 3 yards behind the LOS.

[worstSeat]

I can waste 8 mil a year easy. And it's not a bad idea to overpay a little for someone who will be either your 2nd or 3rd CB.

Re-sign Los Manos de Piedra!

---------- Post added July-2nd-2011 at 12:07 AM ----------

Easier to game plan around a weak edge than centre.

You do realize this is American football we're discussing, right? There's another board for the United.

[Laxpunk2006]

He is "Super Smart"?

Don't forget that he "fights his guts out"

I found this part of Tandler's article interesting:

He has a point here. An offensive line needs to play as a unit, which means they need reps together to be good.

I would still like to see us add some talent, but doing so may set us back a bit.

One step back to take two steps forward? I wouldn't mind taking a step back to infuse a greater talent level and thus build towards a more productive future. At the same time if our coaching staff thinks the answer is continuity I can try to get on board with that as well.

The clamoring for Rabach to be released is silly in my opinion but he should be relegated to backup duty. He is well respected in the lockerroom and he knows the calls and protections. His body isn't holding up any longer but I would assume he could be effective in spot duty if the starter went down with an injury. I would be much more comfortable knowing he is on the bench and helping the starter prepare than some UDFA.

[paloosa]

The reason Rabach is the starting center is because of his lateral movement and because of his strength. Shanahan likes quick and agile lineman for his zone blocking scheme. The only problem is that they get pushed back into our QB which makes it impossible for any QB to set in the pocket to deliver the ball. There are consistent things that this team has had issues with. Look at Jason Cambell's time with Washington. He would take a 7 step drop and when he was finished the rush would be there waiting on him. But it wasn't only him but others. Mark Brunell wasn't any better. Neither was McNabb. You can't expect to have success with a QB if he is consistently running around to avoid the rush. Look at the defense and the corners playing 10 yards off the reciever. The slant was there at will against our defense because of that. If the other team needed 5 yards they got 10. Of course they maay not have goten beat deep a lot but look at where they rank on defense. Dead Last. All because they play off the ball and are poor taklers. So Rabach is the product of the team dynamics and fits into the protypical Shanahan type O-Linemen. But don't blame only Rabach for the poor play of the line or he team becaause there is plenty of blame to go around.

[bulldog]

I think Right Tackle is a much more critical issue for the Redskins than OG. An argument can be made that outside of Trent Williams the Redskins need FOUR new starters on the OL.

But if you look at the relative production by position I am more comfortable with Lichtensteiger and Montgomery at OG than ????? at RT

That's right, Jammal Brown and Stephon Heyer are free agents and didn't play particularly well in 2011 when they were here. No draft picks were made for OT and Selvish Capers who was drafted as a OT in 2010 has been moved to OG.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

It's expected to be a busy FA period for the Redskins and a retooling of the OL coming via signings.

Just can't see the Skins making a mistake and paying big bucks for a DB like 29 yr. old Nnamdi Asomugha that has only 3 more INT's than Carlos Rogers.

I'm not advocating that we sign Nnamdi but there's a reason he only has 3 more INTs than Carlos.

Unlike Carlos, Nnamdi isn't tested by opposing QBs. :2cents:

[Unforgiven]

I'm not advocating that we sign Nnamdi but there's a reason he only has 3 more INTs than Carlos.

Unlike Carlos, Nnamdi isn't tested by opposing QBs. :2cents:

Right, if Carlos caught all the balls that hit him in the hands he would have way more INTs than Nnamdi, because people go at Carlos way way more frequently than Asomugha. Simply look at passes defended...the guy that Asomugha is on disappears from the game basically.

[bulldog]

Nobody throws the ball on Asomugha. So, he doesn't get interceptions. Who cares?

When you go back and look at the interception leaders at cornerback over the past 15-20 years my guess is the guys you see in those years are often NOT the best cover corner, ie DeAngelo Hall. These guys get thrown on a lot and intercept passes but also give up a lot of completions.

Anyone remember Barry Wilburn leading the NFC in interceptions in 1987 playing next to Darrell Green? Was Wilburn one of the best corners in the NFL or merely a guy that benefited from being targeted often because of #28, with more chances to take the ball away?

[Chump Bailey]

I think Right Tackle is a much more critical issue for the Redskins than OG.

I'd agree with this and add C. I personally thought Brown played well when he got healthy. I don't think having a former All-Pro LT protecting Beck or Rex this season on the right side is a bad thing and I think both QB's would agree. Brown has some good football left in him and he plays with a nasty demeanor, which I like.

bulldog - what's your take on our draft? I don't recall seeing you weigh in on it.

[Darth Tater]

Nobody throws the ball on Asomugha. So, he doesn't get interceptions. Who cares?

When you go back and look at the interception leaders at cornerback over the past 15-20 years my guess is the guys you see in those years are often NOT the best cover corner, ie DeAngelo Hall. These guys get thrown on a lot and intercept passes but also give up a lot of completions.

Anyone remember Barry Wilburn leading the NFC in interceptions in 1987 playing next to Darrell Green? Was Wilburn one of the best corners in the NFL or merely a guy that benefited from being targeted often because of #28, with more chances to take the ball away?

Oh come on, Wilburn was decent, he just had problems because he used nose drops too much.

[kyousukeneko]

to be honet i reall feel like Capers needs a chance at RT he would fit great, and theres a good chance that Ryan Harris is going to a UFA. taking denver drafted his replacement in Franklin, you all talk about him as a OG, but the broncos coaching staff veiws him as a Rt. i really think harris can come to the skin, be an auto up grade at Ot, let kory play C and a monty at RG. if you get harris, you can go in with the line of

Williams Capers Litch Monty Harris

that would not bea bad line, i think if there is one person who knows how to build a line it is shannahan.