hail2skins Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 WorstSeat's thread/poll on JKC vs Snyder got me thinking about an idea for another thread (yes, end this damn lockout already) that has probably been on here in the past, but I'll start it anyway. We recently passed the 12 year anniversary of Snyder being approved as owner by the league, and I guess he officially took control of the team by July 1999. At that point, Snyder was very limited on what changes he could make for the upcoming season. Unfortunately, by that time Trent Green, who had played well in his first season as starting QB, had bolted to the Rams because of the uncertainty of the ownership situation. In the interim, Charley Casserly had acquired Brad Johnson from the Vikings (a trade Snyder reportedly tried to rescind). Lets say the ownership situation had been knotted out six months earlier, say by the end of the 1998 season. How does this change the way the ensuing decade went? You can choose JKC retaining control, Snyder getting the team, or both. Mention any immediate moves that would have occurred (probably more applicable for a Snyder ownership). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 WorstSeat's thread/poll on JKC vs Snyder got me thinking about an idea for another thread (yes, end this damn lockout already) that has probably been on here in the past, but I'll start it anyway. We recently passed the 12 year anniversary of Snyder being approved as owner by the league, and I guess he officially took control of the team by July 1999. At that point, Snyder was very limited on what changes he could make for the upcoming season. Unfortunately, by that time Trent Green, who had played well in his first season as starting QB, had bolted to the Rams because of the uncertainty of the ownership situation. In the interim, Charley Casserly had acquired Brad Johnson from the Vikings (a trade Snyder reportedly tried to rescind).Lets say the ownership situation had been knotted out six months earlier, say by the end of the 1998 season. How does this change the way the ensuing decade went? You can choose JKC retaining control, Snyder getting the team, or both. Mention any immediate moves that would have occurred (probably more applicable for a Snyder ownership). I think we'd have been relatively similar in 1999 (though I'd have to concede that we'd probably have been less dynamic on offense with Green over Johnson). Longer-term though, I think we'd have been set at QB until the mid-2000s. With Green plus the picks we wouldn't have spent on Johnson (assuming Casserly was drafting with those picks), I think we'd have been OK. The biggest what-if to me is where would we have gone as a franchise if Casserly was retained over Turner. I think that could have set us up with a competent, if unspectacular GM for a decade. Who knows which coaches he'd have found and how he'd have drafted? Assuming the owner was Cooke and we kept Casserly in place, I think we'd probably have won a couple division titles and still had that family franchise feel to us. I suppose it's possible that we'd have a Super Bowl also, though I think that's a tough thing to just assume. All in all, if Cooke had just become the owner after his father passed away, I think this franchise would "feel" like the same one I grew up rooting for and we'd probably have experienced modest success over the past 12 years. Had Casserly struck gold on a coach (Bellichick, for example) or some draft picks, maybe we'd be elite again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 The only huge what-if for me is what-if Gibbs had come back in 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefJerky Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 What if Stone hands CAUGHT the pick 6 in the playoff loss in Seattle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 What if Stone hands CAUGHT the pick 6 in the playoff loss in Seattle? What if Stone hands doesn't drop the int in the end zone in the first Giants game in 2008? What if Stone hands doesn't drop the pick 6 against Pittsburgh in 2008 when we were up 6-0? I think that was also the drive they scored their first points on. What if Stone hands doesn't drop the pick 6 in the first game during the Giants first drive in 2009? ...seems to be a pattern here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annonymous Source Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 What if Stone hands doesn't drop the int in the end zone in the first Giants game in 2008?What if Stone hands doesn't drop the pick 6 against Pittsburgh in 2008 when we were up 6-0? I think that was also the drive they scored their first points on. What if Stone hands doesn't drop the pick 6 in the first game during the Giants first drive in 2009? ...seems to be a pattern here. That one in Seattle hurt way worse than the others. If he had caught that ball then I have no doubt we would have been in the NFC championship with a decent shot at the Super Bowl. The others were all bad plays, but that play literally cost us a shot at the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsWarrior81 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 That one in Seattle hurt way worse than the others. If he had caught that ball then I have no doubt we would have been in the NFC championship with a decent shot at the Super Bowl. The others were all bad plays, but that play literally cost us a shot at the Super Bowl. I have harbored a literal hatred for Carlos ever since that game. It makes me sick to my stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 That one in Seattle hurt way worse than the others. If he had caught that ball then I have no doubt we would have been in the NFC championship with a decent shot at the Super Bowl. The others were all bad plays, but that play literally cost us a shot at the Super Bowl. I have harbored a literal hatred for Carlos ever since that game. It makes me sick to my stomach. I remember, even back in '05, just thinking that as soon as he dropped it that it spelled the end for us. I remember thinking ever since that no single play since to botched FG attempt against Tampa after the '99 season cost us a legitimate shot at the SB. And the Seahawks went on to choke away the game (with the help of the refs) against one of the worst SB winning performances in history. And yes, being that I was 5 last time the Redskins won a SB, sometimes that play (well, those 2 plays I mentioned) literally, physically hurt to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martytheman Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 What if the best years of Santana's career hadn't been wasted with JC (not) throwing the ball to him? I firmly believe he would have been a legit comparison and would have had every right to be mentioned in the same sentence as Steve Smith annd Wes Welker..... History was not so kind to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gart Monk Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/1999_roster.htm The 1999 Redskins were poised for a decade of success. This roster was LOADED. They only needed help at safety and a solid defensive coordinator just to control those guys. Probably would have beaten the Rams and gone to the SB if they made that fg vs TB. Turner and Casserly caught a lot of heat for five years to revamp that roster and Snyder ruined it FOREVER in one year. No one was happy with John Kent Cooke but if he could have just held on for a few more years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuru Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I think we'd have been relatively similar in 1999 (though I'd have to concede that we'd probably have been less dynamic on offense with Green over Johnson). Longer-term though, I think we'd have been set at QB until the mid-2000s. With Green plus the picks we wouldn't have spent on Johnson (assuming Casserly was drafting with those picks), I think we'd have been OK. The biggest what-if to me is where would we have gone as a franchise if Casserly was retained over Turner. I think that could have set us up with a competent, if unspectacular GM for a decade. Who knows which coaches he'd have found and how he'd have drafted? Assuming the owner was Cooke and we kept Casserly in place, I think we'd probably have won a couple division titles and still had that family franchise feel to us. I suppose it's possible that we'd have a Super Bowl also, though I think that's a tough thing to just assume. All in all, if Cooke had just become the owner after his father passed away, I think this franchise would "feel" like the same one I grew up rooting for and we'd probably have experienced modest success over the past 12 years. Had Casserly struck gold on a coach (Bellichick, for example) or some draft picks, maybe we'd be elite again. This. Couldn't have said it any better. As for Stone Hands... I'll never forget the moment he dropped the Seattle pick.. the weather, where I was watching, what side of the couch I was on, and the shtick I got from my sister's Dallas fan in-laws. Pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The opening post is very interesting to me because I have been thinking for over a decade how our fortunes would have changed had we retained Trent Green. I also wonder what would have happened if Milstein, not Synder, was the majority owner. But please stop posting about Charley Casserly or I will be forced, once again, to post his draft record. It's pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 If the ownership issue had been settled by the end of 1998- either John Kent Cooke or the Arizona group with Joe Gibbs would've had the team. Mike Holmgren would've been our coach and GM. We probably would've won a couple of superbowls with Matt Hasselback and maybe lose another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill1952 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 What if the Skins had addressed the offensive line after the fall from the 6-2 start with Campbell to the 2-6 finish, as the coaches had suggested instead of completely ignoring the OL in the draft and free agency the following year? What if the Skins had drafted a guard, as the coaches reportedly wanted to, instead of Ramsey, as Snyder and Cerrato forced the team to draft? What if the Skins had drafted a right tackle instead of finding Heyer in the UDFA pile? What if Portis had had a great offensive line instead of the one he was forced to play behind? Does he get hurt as often? Does he hold the record? Does he get more runs up the gut on short yardage instead of alll of those stretch plays that gained les and less as his career progressed? And my recent favorite: what if the Skins had spent 100 million pursuing and signing offensive linemen instead of Fat Albert? Those are the ones I think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinFaninOKC Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 What if in the 2007 Wild Card in Seattle.... Suisham makes the FG to put us up 17-13? What if Vernon Fox lets that kickoff go into the endzone? We had so much momentum at this point, that game was in our hands and slipped through like sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The problem with JKC would have been the same problem Snyder cursed us with, sticking by a GM with a track record of failure. JKC probably would of stuck by Casserly for the better part of the last decade. Desmond Howard, Heath Shuler, Andre Johnson, Dana Stubblefield.....Shar Pourdonash as our "cornerstone" left tackle anyone? And Casserly didn't do much better with the "still seeking a playoff appearance" Texans. Different owner, same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gart Monk Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 What if in the 2007 Wild Card in Seattle....Suisham makes the FG to put us up 17-13? What if Vernon Fox lets that kickoff go into the endzone? We had so much momentum at this point, that game was in our hands and slipped through like sand. What if Cooley catches that pass inside the 5yd line (difficult,but catchable) so Suisham doesn't have to attempt that huge fg? That's all it took to spark Seatlle and vanquish Gibbs2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 What if Positive edition: 1. As far as coaching what if we kept Schottenheimer after 2001. He was steady changing the culture of premadonnas, scaring off Deion Sanders and making Bruce Smith gripe. But more importantly, Cerrato would of stayed out and Spurrier would of never have come to Washington as the worst head coach in the NFL the past decade. 2. As far as free agency remember when we threw all that money at Randel El, Andre Carter, Archuleta, and eventually after we traded for him Brandon Lloyd? We could of taken a fraction of that money and still threw more money at a player nobody really wanted that year, Drew Brees. 3. As far as drafting what if we drafted Brian Urlacher instead of Lavar Arrington? Both were the two best LB prospects coming out in 2000 but Lavar had the edge because of his athletic ability. If only work ethic topped the charts, Urlacher has been the best part of many good Bears defenses and is still going strong today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Sorry guys, hate to bring up this one again, but.... What if we had drafted Boldin instead of Jacobs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worstSeat Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 What if Stone hands doesn't drop the int in the end zone in the first Giants game in 2008?What if Stone hands doesn't drop the pick 6 against Pittsburgh in 2008 when we were up 6-0? I think that was also the drive they scored their first points on. What if Stone hands doesn't drop the pick 6 in the first game during the Giants first drive in 2009? ...seems to be a pattern here. What, that he didn't let each of those go to the house like Tryon or Torrence would have? RE-SIGN THE HANDS OF STONE!!!1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonePatron Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 The Bad What if we drafted AP instead of LL30? What if Carlos doesnt drop that pick in 05'? What if we never let Ryan Clark go for Adam Archuleta? The worst, what if Sean Taylor would have traveled with the team instead of being at home on the very Tragic night? The Good What if Joe Gibbs never came back? What if Santana dropped the 2nd td on the Monday night Miracle? What if we still had Vinny Cerrato? Muahahahahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgesideSkins Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 What if... we scored on the goal line stand against the Giants in the 4th Qtr of 07? Coughlin most likely would have been fired. Giants in a 0-3 hole could have possibly been finished off right there. We would have been 3-0 heading into the bye. Instead they gain tons of momentum and inspiration from that win and take the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeen80 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/1999_roster.htmThe 1999 Redskins were poised for a decade of success. This roster was LOADED. They only needed help at safety and a solid defensive coordinator just to control those guys. Probably would have beaten the Rams and gone to the SB if they made that fg vs TB. Turner and Casserly caught a lot of heat for five years to revamp that roster and Snyder ruined it FOREVER in one year. No one was happy with John Kent Cooke but if he could have just held on for a few more years... The 99 defense was ranked next to last in the entire NFL I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 The problem with JKC would have been the same problem Snyder cursed us with, sticking by a GM with a track record of failure. JKC probably would of stuck by Casserly for the better part of the last decade. Desmond Howard, Heath Shuler, Andre Johnson, Dana Stubblefield.....Shar Pourdonash as our "cornerstone" left tackle anyone? And Casserly didn't do much better with the "still seeking a playoff appearance" Texans. Different owner, same problem. A couple things...JKC sticking with Casserly is light-years different than Snyder sticking with Cerrato. Casserly is a proven GM who is at least solid. Many of the cherry-picked players you mentioned were either insisted on by the coaches (Howard/Gibbs, Shuler/Turner) or over-dramatized in your post (Pourdanesh wasn't even drafted here and was never once mentioned or considered a cornerstone anything). I could give you many examples on the other side of the ledger (the Ricky Williams trade fleecing Ditka, drafting Mario Williams over Reggie Bush, etc.). Also, Casserly was a life-long Redskin. That matters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnyjz Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 What if Stone hands CAUGHT the pick 6 in the playoff loss in Seattle? That one still stays visually fresh in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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