Feds Mess With Texas; TSA Showdown Could Explode

[Hubbs]

I wanted this thread to be about a general situation, rather than a specific article, because there's a good chance that this thing is going to explode in the coming days.

A couple weeks ago, the Texas House passed a bill which stated that without probable cause, airport screeners couldn't touch the sex organs of passengers at security checkpoints within the state. It was a unanimous vote. The next step was the Texas Senate, and it's here that the fuse was lit. The Department of Justice apparently decided to strong-arm the Senate by threatening to ground all flights out of Texas:

A bill that would criminalize TSA agents who conduct airport patdown searches was scuttled last night after the federal government threatened to ground all flights out of Texas.

The proposed law would have levied misdemeanor charges against security agents who "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly [touch] the anus, sexual organ, buttocks, or breast of the other person, including touching through clothing, or touching the other person in a manner that would be offensive to a reasonable person."

An earlier version of House Bill 1937 would have made such action a felony.

"If [the legislation] passes, the federal government would likely seek an emergency stay of the statute," a letter from the Department of Justice explained (PDF). "Unless or until a such a stay were granted, TSA would likely be required to cancel any flight or series of flights for which it could not ensure the safety of passengers and crew."

As a result, the bill's co-sponsor in the Texas Senate withdrew the legislation. It had cleared the Texas House by unanimous vote.

"All that HB 1937 does is require that the TSA abide by the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution," State Rep. David Simpson, the bill's author, fired back in an advisory. "We aren‘t even prohibiting the pat-downs, per se. We're just saying you can't go straight to third base. You have to have a reason -- you have to have probable cause -- before groping someone‘s sexual organs."

If you skimmed the quote, the Texas Senate withdrew a bill that had passed the House unanimously because of pressure from Washington.

There's a perfect storm of events here, which is why I wanted this thread to be general. Over the past few years, a bunch of states have gone out of their way to try to draw a line in the sand over state authority versus federal authority. Parts of the fight have been over medical marijuana laws. Parts have been over guns that are manufactured, sold, and owned within the same state. Parts have been over the new health care laws. Each of those issues are relatively divisive, and while each of them could - and it's likely that at least one of them will - ultimately lead to a showdown in the Supreme Court, airport security is different. Whatever you think of the new searches, there's no escaping the fact that they're enormously unpopular. And Texas residents are, shall we say, none too pleased with being told that they have no say regarding the searches they have to put up with in their own airports. Which is why the backlash has included:

Protesters marching on the Texas capitol building the first day that the news spread

Tenth Amendment articles in favor of the bill

Conflict in the Texas Senate

So we have a battle over a very unpopular topic, within a state that's already likely to be reactive over states' rights issues, coming after a surge of state assertiveness. My guess is that this is going to become a very big deal.

Thoughts?

[JMS]

duplicate post.

[JMS]

That's hillarious... But that's small potatos.

Remember when Obama was elected and the Governer of Texas threatenned to suceed from the Union? Only the polls in the state showed 80% of his constituents disagreed with him.

Texas's jpoloticians think theiy are all powerful. The facts are the politicians in DC have more power and about 1000x the political savy. If DC is forced to ground the planes gues who's politicians will take the responsibility? It won't even be a political decision here in DC, some beurocrat will anounce the response to texas's law... and that will be that...

The only thing saving them from that feight right now is it will cost the airlines millions and nobody in DC wants to do that just to swat Texas's politicians.

This will be fun to watch though thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[Hubbs]

Come on, you really think the DOJ would actually attempt to ground all flights out of Texas? A state that would be something like the 8th largest economy in the world if it was a country? Do you have any idea what kind of disruption that would cause?

If I was a Texas politician, I would call the DOJ's bluff. I'd be the man who stood up to the feds, and I'd probably win, because I just can't see the grounding thing actually playing out.

[JMS]

Come on, you really think the DOJ would actually attempt to ground all flights out of Texas? A state that would be something like the 8th largest economy in the world if it was a country? Do you have any idea what kind of disruption that would cause?

If I was a Texas politician, I would call the DOJ's bluff. I'd be the man who stood up to the feds, and I'd probably win, because I just can't see the grounding thing actually playing out.

No you are right. I don't think so. I think the DC politicians will just ignore Texas if at all possible. But ensuring the safety of the airways is a federal responsibility; if the state obstructs that I could see the Fed responding some way.. Probable not by grounding the airlines though because that would be disruptive for the entire country. Typically the feds step on the state's federal money when such shinanagan's occur. First to go will be Texas's federal highway money. Hundreds of millions of dollars a year. It get's more painful from their.

But think of the idiocracy here. Texas with a majority of GOP politicians ( Gov, legislature)... is objecting to this policy making a pain in the butts of themselves to a Democratic President. But the policy was inacted by the previous republican president, who also happenned to be the former gov of Texas. I just think this is going to be a hard argument to make Obama look baddly on, what with 49 other states sucking it up and adhereing to the new rules. As abtrusive as they are.

[twa]

Tempest in a teapot

There are numerous other issues that could blow up,but both Texas and the feds will work it out.

JMS I believe your recollection on secession is a bit off....of course we might have a different definition of threatened

[twa]

But think of the idiocracy here. Texas with a majority of GOP politicians ( Gov, legislature)... is objecting to this policy making a pain in the butts of themselves to a Democratic President. But the policy was inacted by the previous republican president, who also happenned to be the former gov of Texas. I just think this is going to be a hard argument to make Obama look baddly on, what with 49 other states sucking it up and adhereing to the new rules. As abtrusive as they are.

Texans in general are a obstinate bunch that go beyond partisan politics(we celebrate individualism)

You might note we fought the Feds while W was President.(and won)...it goes beyond simple politics

[JMS]

JMS I believe your recollection on secession is a bit off....of course we might have a different definition of threatened

Texas is a unique place. When we came into the Union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that.

We got a great Union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it, but if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what may come out of that.

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/gov-perry-talks-succession-texas-tea-pa

Secession Divides Texas Republicans

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/republican-party/secession-divides-texas-republ.html

That is definitely a threat, It's also treason. It's sad when a governor of a major state doesn't even understand his own states history. Texas has no such hall pass to suceed his own states historians confirmed that for him.

I hope that guy runs for national office... These commericals will be priceless.

---------- Post added May-26th-2011 at 09:12 AM ----------

Texans in general are a obstinate bunch that go beyond partisan politics(we celebrate individualism)

You might note we fought the Feds while W was President.(and won)...it goes beyond simple politics

I'm not up on Texas Politics, but it does seem the vitrial in texas went up several orders of magnatude when Obama took office.. The sucession talk was over the top; and rather idiotic..

I mean come on, hasn't he heard about the civil war? Texas has a right to sucede indeed.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

It sounds like Texas should yield to the feds on this one.

I know that people complain about the interstate commerce clause being abused, but if you don't think air travel is "interstate commerce" then I don't know what that phrase means. It is also likely that TSA knows that as soon as Texas passes this law, some terrorist is going to sneak something in in his underwear and blow up some plane.

I don't subscribe to the theory that the federal government has no role in our lives at all, or that it never supersedes the state government.

[JMS]

It sounds like Texas should yield to the feds on this one.

I know that people complain about the interstate commerce clause being abused, but if you don't think air travel is "interstate commerce" then I don't know what that phrase means. It is also likely that TSA knows that as soon as Texas passes this law, some terrorist is going to sneak something in in his underwear and blow up some plane.

I don't subscribe to the theory that the federal government has no role in our lives at all, or that it never supersedes the state government.

It's not just a Texas deal. The federal gov has long heald the high ground in dealing with upstart States. It has the strings to create a drag on a state and slowly mold them into position. Standing on principle get's old very fast for most politicians as your constituents are loosing out on hundreds of millions of dollars and you are responsible. As soon as the financial heat is felt, states typically get reasonable very quickly... Although at times some states hold out for years.

[Duckus]

Tempest in a teapot

There are numerous other issues that could blow up,but both Texas and the feds will work it out.

Agreed. Sort of a non-issues.

It was Alex Jones and a couple dozen o his wingnut followers. I walked down the street to check it out and laugh.

Many other issues that the leg is more worried about. First being school funding.

[LadySkinsFan]

My only family lives in Texas and a couple of years ago I contemplated moving there to be closer to them. Then I came to my senses! I miss my family but I will not go from the frying pan that is Virginia into the fire that is Texas. It would be too much to bear. But I do have a Texas Tag on my car.

That's right, I now only drive, I don't fly anymore due to the abuse of the Fourth Amendment by the Federal Government. And remember, I'm a liberal.

[Dan T.]

If it keeps Lombardi's Kid Brother and the Dallas Cowboys stuck in Texas then I'm all for it.

[HSW]

If that law was passed then I would just pull all TSA agents out of Texas. Let Texas pay the bill to hire and train their own security work force.

There is no way I would put my employees in a situation like that.

[twa]

I'm not up on Texas Politics, but it does seem the vitrial in texas went up several orders of magnatude when Obama took office.. The sucession talk was over the top; and rather idiotic..

I mean come on, hasn't he heard about the civil war? Texas has a right to sucede indeed.

Rights do not come from the government

Nor did he call for or threaten secession....though he does consider it a option of last resort(as do most here)

the vitriol stays pretty high here,ain't nothing new

[Madison Redskin]

The economy is humming, our infrastructure is fine, the environment is pristine, and there is no crime, except the crime being perpetrated by members of the TSA. Texas has its priorities in order, or, at least the politicians who put their job security above everything else, do.

[Busch1724]

I don't think this will be the issue that forces interstate commerce regulations to come to a massive head. However, it is one step closer and we are not far away from it. What that issue will be, who knows, but it's close.

[Larry]

Really shouldn't surprise me, watching people loudly demand that the government not fix a security hole, after a terrorist has successfully and publicly exploited that security hole, to smuggle explosives onto an aircraft.

Maybe we should get outraged and demand that they allow box cutters, again?

[Hubbs]

Really shouldn't surprise me, watching people loudly demand that the government not fix a security hole, after a terrorist has successfully and publicly exploited that security hole, to smuggle explosives onto an aircraft.

Maybe we should get outraged and demand that they allow box cutters, again?

So, just to be clear, you're all for the TSA grabbing my anus? And really digging in, just in case?

I knew there was a reason that I swore I'd take the train back to Boston from now on.

- Equally as expensive, yet without the probes,

Hubbs

[War Paint]

Texas sounds like a good state that I would like to live in. Too bad it's loaded with Cowboy fans haha.

---------- Post added May-26th-2011 at 04:13 PM ----------

So, just to be clear, you're all for the TSA grabbing my anus? And really digging in, just in case?

I knew there was a reason that I swore I'd take the train back to Boston from now on.

- Equally as expensive, yet without the probes,

Hubbs

Hubbs, having your anus grabbed at the airport keeps us safe and protects our freedom. The odds of being a victim of a terrorist attack on an airplane is a 1 in 10.4 million chance. Getting struck by lightening is a 1 in 500,000 chance. So you can see, a person is twenty times more likely to get struck by lightening. That's why we need to be searched, grabbed, and treated like criminals!

http://gizmodo.com/5435954/the-true-odds-of-airborne-terror-chart

[Larry]

So, just to be clear, you're all for the TSA grabbing my anus? And really digging in, just in case?

I knew there was a reason that I swore I'd take the train back to Boston from now on.

- Equally as expensive, yet without the probes,

Hubbs

No, I'm in favor of them searching for weapons, in places where terrorists have successfully concealed weapons in the past.

So, just to be clear, you're all in favor of the government knowingly ignoring security holes, after terrorists have successfully exploited the hole, and after all the other terrorists have seen the hole exploited?

Should we start allowing box cutters back on airplanes, too?

----------

Now that we're done trying to claim that each other are saying things that they aren't saying . . .

Near as I can tell, at present we have exactly three options:

1) Search people's crotches, manually.

2) Search people's crotches, electronically.

3) Allow terrorists to "pack" explosives on board aircraft.

Your preference is . . . ?

[LadySkinsFan]

How come Israel has a strict questioning of passengers policy but they don't do these intruding searches? Why do we have to grope passengers? It's more than ridiculous and that's why I don't fly anymore. I drive. It takes longer but I don't have to be exposed to probing rays or fingers. What's wrong with people who so easily give up their Constitutional rights?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

How come Israel has a strict questioning of passengers policy but they don't do these intruding searches? Why do we have to grope passengers? It's more than ridiculous and that's why I don't fly anymore. I drive. It takes longer but I don't have to be exposed to probing rays or fingers. What's wrong with people who so easily give up their Constitutional rights?

I think it was decided a long time ago that if you choose to fly, you are waiving your Fourth Amendment rights. I think that the danger of flying and the procedures that go into effect meet every test you can think of to determine whether or not they are violating your rights. And the answer is no.

You can of course waive rights, I hope we all realize. For example, a convict in prison doesn't get to say he has been unlawfully searched and seized.

[Mooka]

Come on, you really think the DOJ would actually attempt to ground all flights out of Texas? A state that would be something like the 8th largest economy in the world if it was a country? Do you have any idea what kind of disruption that would cause?

If I was a Texas politician, I would call the DOJ's bluff. I'd be the man who stood up to the feds, and I'd probably win, because I just can't see the grounding thing actually playing out.

I doubt you'd win.

Canceling all flights out of Texas would certainly hurt Texas a hell of a lot more then it does the rest of the country.

[MassSkinsFan]

How come Israel has a strict questioning of passengers policy but they don't do these intruding searches? Why do we have to grope passengers? It's more than ridiculous and that's why I don't fly anymore. I drive. It takes longer but I don't have to be exposed to probing rays or fingers. What's wrong with people who so easily give up their Constitutional rights?

I'm pretty sure I saw an article about three months ago that said the reason Israel's security is so much more effective is that they use profiling to choose the passengers they'll question. That would never work in the US.