TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I dont need a "I won a debate on the internet" trophy...hahaha. you guys can let TR1 keep that and put it on his mantle with the rest of his......you know what they say about "winning an internet fight" right??? I am sure somewhere Tweedy has a picture of it. He has pics of everything else it seems. hahaha I get what KDawg is saying and I can appreciate it too....its brutally honest. My opinion is A) no good here and it will never be right...even when i am right....... The best part about this forum/message board...has always been its outstanding participation, not only within its own fan base but with the outsider fans as well....i have said it before and will say it again. And i am not kissin butt here or anything. I have called it like i have seen it, quite frankly! This is the best one, the best message board/forum around, well run, very good fans (for the most part) good visitors......limited trolling...etc. Kudos for the Mods as well as you big time regulars! All that being said.........these 22 pages dedicated to Ware and the incredible notion that he is an "average" talent, and only has great numbers due to scheme....and as TR1 put it.....would be AVERAGE AT BEST in another scheme............including playing a DE in a 4-3 is beyond funny, and would be literally laughed out of town on any other kind of message board (ie: Neutral site...or NFL fan board...etc) However...its not a NFL site, its a Skins board and as KDawg said..........you guys have the right to be right in this case, even when you are wrong. So be it......and let it be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 just want to check with you before i reply to the post (please do not take as sarcasm) but what are we talking about here? i noticed you replied to my post, but mine was just to laugh at TRPB being...well TRPB, lol. I think he was saying he didn't get why TRPB keeps coming back to this thread even though he's been shown up time and again...he can understand a Skins fan coming back to this thread under the same circumstances because, well, it's our board, our team...but can't understand why a Cowboys' fan--a fan of a team that is damn near just as much of a loser as the Redskins have been--keeps coming back for more thumping, both in smack talk and in football talk lol... GHH will correct me, though, if I misread his post (won't be the first time I couldn't quite understand what he meant lol..."bits of kids", anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 even when you are wrong Except there's a lot of wrong in this case. Saying Wareisn't a great player for what he does is wrong. Saying Ware is an exceptional linebacker because he pass rushes well (and the same can be said for Rak) is wrong. Saying Ware is the third best linebacker but the second best defensive player makes no sense... And is wrong. Saying Ware is the product of a system is partially correct... But that system was put in place to help showcase his talents. It's hard to hold Ware accountable for that. For the record, I would never say Rak is one of the top ten linebackers in the NFL, but he sure as hell is one of the top ten pass rushers. To be a top linebacker you need to have a combination of everything. Coverage skills, pass rush skills, run stopping skills, shedding blocks, athleticism, scraping ability, good pursuit and good in space. Guys like Ware (and Rak) have meh coverage skills. Rak is lost in space at times. They aren't great linebackers. The linebacker spot they play is a linebacker by name only. I really wish they'd rename the position to something other than linebacker. It's a pass rush spot. Call it the Raptor or something Ware is, one of the best, if not the best, pass rusher in the NFL. But he is not one of the best linebackers. But back to this: its a Skins board and as KDawg said..........you guys have the right to be right in this case, even when you are wrong We aren't wrong. You are. You're a cowboy fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Except there's a lot of wrong in this case. Saying Wareisn't a great player for what he does is wrong.Saying Ware is an exceptional linebacker because he pass rushes well (and the same can be said for Rak) is wrong. Saying Ware is the third best linebacker but the second best defensive player makes no sense... And is wrong. Saying Ware is the product of a system is partially correct... But that system was put in place to help showcase his talents. It's hard to hold Ware accountable for that. For the record, I would never say Rak is one of the top ten linebackers in the NFL, but he sure as hell is one of the top ten pass rushers. To be a top linebacker you need to have a combination of everything. Coverage skills, pass rush skills, run stopping skills, shedding blocks, athleticism, scraping ability, good pursuit and good in space. Guys like Ware (and Rak) have meh coverage skills. Rak is lost in space at times. They aren't great linebackers. The linebacker spot they play is a linebacker by name only. I really wish they'd rename the position to something other than linebacker. It's a pass rush spot. Call it the Raptor or something Ware is, one of the best, if not the best, pass rusher in the NFL. But he is not one of the best linebackers. But back to this: We aren't wrong. You are. You're a cowboy fan. Agree with damn near all of this :yes:... And it's because of this that I can't find myself getting all bent out of shape if anyone says Ware is overrated (I think he is, even though I also think he's very, very good at rushing the passer)...nor can I find myself concerned when anyone claims he's not one of the "best 5/7/10 players in the NFL"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doncherry Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Agree with damn near all of this :yes:...And it's because of this that I can't find myself getting all bent out of shape if anyone says Ware is overrated (I think he is, even though I also think he's very, very good at rushing the passer)...nor can I find myself concerned when anyone claims he's not one of the "best 5/7/10 players in the NFL"... +1. I enjoy the banter and debate, but at the end of the day, as a Cowboys fan, I'm not here to try and mine accolades for Dallas players. I don't expect it just as posters that are here wouldn't go to the Cowboys zone and try and fish for compliments for Redskin players. It's just not happening. TRPB is a Dallas fan, as am I. He does a good job defending his opinions, opinions that are basically indefensible here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 +1. I enjoy the banter and debate, but at the end of the day, as a Cowboys fan, I'm not here to try and mine accolades for Dallas players. I don't expect it just as posters that are here wouldn't go to the Cowboys zone and try and fish for compliments for Redskin players. It's just not happening. They're starting to get it. Hooraaayyy! He does a good job defending his opinions No he doesn't. He's on a Redskin forum. Just when I thought you guys were beginning to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 They're starting to get it. Hooraaayyy! No he doesn't. He's on a Redskin forum. Just when I thought you guys were beginning to understand lol too true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 +1. I enjoy the banter and debate, but at the end of the day, as a Cowboys fan, I'm not here to try and mine accolades for Dallas players. I don't expect it just as posters that are here wouldn't go to the Cowboys zone and try and fish for compliments for Redskin players. It's just not happening. TRPB is a Dallas fan, as am I. He does a good job defending his opinions, opinions that are basically indefensible here. hey Don......that's a Grand Champion of a point my friend...... I am defenitly guilty of trying much, MUCH to hard to make a point that just cant be made here.........i like to say that its all because I love talking football and debating football so much. I do have debates with my inner circle of friends all the time as well as having some Round table discussions within the coaches i hang with......those get to be great sometimes when you have a group of 6-8 fans/coaches from 4-5 different teams.......I usually leave the round table debates understanding other peoples opinions much better then when i showed up for em....... This is site isnt that much different, I will say within this thread (and a few others in the past) i was able to say to myself "hmmmm...thats a good point and i didnt think of it or look at it, that way".....the difference is....in the face to face.........fans of other teams (including the Skins) will leave saying to me that they see my points and take what I say..........that just does NOT happen in here. When you don't have a face to show and/or you don't have to come back again an show your face in other debates.......then its just so much easier to say "YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING CAUSE YOU ARE A COWBOYS FAN AND AN IDIOT......ECT...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 hethen its just so much easier to say "YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING CAUSE YOU ARE A COWBOYS FAN AND AN IDIOT......ECT...... Well, for one thing, I'd tell you the same thing to your face. Second, that last line you put in all caps is correct. Third, to pretend you don't have a bias towards the Cowboys is like saying we don't have a Redskin bias. It would be a complete and total lie. You guys are trying to pin things on us as a fanbase when you yourselves do the same damn thing. You brag about how great you are and how you always can count on seeing the 'Skins in last... Well, for the last fifteen years, both teams have been able to count on seeing each other on the golf course or pond in January/February. What bragging rights do you guys have? You were relevent for four more years longer than the Redskins. Congrats. You're now in the same place as us. No where. Once you realize that you are just as bias as we are, we may be able to have conversations... But coming in here and demanding respect like you attempt to do won't ever work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Well, for one thing, I'd tell you the same thing to your face.Second, that last line you put in all caps is correct. Third, to pretend you don't have a bias towards the Cowboys is like saying we don't have a Redskin bias. It would be a complete and total lie. You guys are trying to pin things on us as a fanbase when you yourselves do the same damn thing. You brag about how great you are and how you always can count on seeing the 'Skins in last... Well, for the last fifteen years, both teams have been able to count on seeing each other on the golf course or pond in January/February. What bragging rights do you guys have? You were relevent for four more years longer than the Redskins. Congrats. You're now in the same place as us. No where. Once you realize that you are just as bias as we are, we may be able to have conversations... But coming in here and demanding respect like you attempt to do won't ever work. ....and BOOM goes the dynamite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Well, for one thing, I'd tell you the same thing to your face.Second, that last line you put in all caps is correct. Third, to pretend you don't have a bias towards the Cowboys is like saying we don't have a Redskin bias. It would be a complete and total lie. You guys are trying to pin things on us as a fanbase when you yourselves do the same damn thing. You brag about how great you are and how you always can count on seeing the 'Skins in last... Well, for the last fifteen years, both teams have been able to count on seeing each other on the golf course or pond in January/February. What bragging rights do you guys have? You were relevent for four more years longer than the Redskins. Congrats. You're now in the same place as us. No where. Once you realize that you are just as bias as we are, we may be able to have conversations... But coming in here and demanding respect like you attempt to do won't ever work. take the last 15 years and the Skins VS the Cowboys out of it........ A) they both have sucked and currently do suck...and we all have a "Bias" to the teams we root for, but in the form of debating and specifically talking about football ....whether its X's and O's or specific player, i do have the ability to not be biased.........which I have shown here on this forum (maybe not this thread exactly) but in this forum i have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 I am defenitly guilty of trying much, MUCH to hard to make a point that just cant be made here.........i like to say that its all because I love talking football and debating football so much. I do have debates with my inner circle of friends all the time as well as having some Round table discussions within the coaches i hang with......those get to be great sometimes when you have a group of 6-8 fans/coaches from 4-5 different teams.......I usually leave the round table debates understanding other peoples opinions much better then when i showed up for em....... This is site isnt that much different, I will say within this thread (and a few others in the past) i was able to say to myself "hmmmm...thats a good point and i didnt think of it or look at it, that way".....the difference is....in the face to face.........fans of other teams (including the Skins) will leave saying to me that they see my points and take what I say..........that just does NOT happen in here. When you don't have a face to show and/or you don't have to come back again an show your face in other debates.......then its just so much easier to say "YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING CAUSE YOU ARE A COWBOYS FAN AND AN IDIOT......ECT...... You can also catch inflection and meaning in a face-to-face. I love engaging in debates with fans of other teams, and right now I'm taking classes to become a coach, so I'm learning more and more about the intricacies of the game. That's not to say I didn't know a right good amount beforehand, but it's the fine tuning that I'm getting most learned on. A good example would be the post I quoted earlier, when you asked me to reference what I had said about Ware and Orakpo. You said that it was a stretch to say that what I used as a reference was saying that Ware's job isn't to cover, but when you said that "why would a coach put him in a position other than what he's best at" (or however you phrased it), the inference is that it's not his job to cover. It is a lot easier to talk and discuss face-to-face, and it also is a little more civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 we all have a "Bias" to the teams we root for, but in the form of debating and specifically talking about football ....whether its X's and O's or specific player, i do have the ability to not be biased.........which I have shown here on this forum (maybe not this thread exactly) but in this forum i have. And you've also shown times where you're totally biased. How do we know which version of TRPB we get? Just because we disagree with you doesn't mean anything, to be honest. You like to pass it off as many different things... From anything to "It's because I'm a Cowboy fan" all the way to "I'm right about this, no matter what!" Problem with you is, you don't admit you're wrong. And when you're on a Redskins forum, practically begging for credibility, that won't ever help your cause. Its your holier than thou attitude, which you do have, like it or not, that bothers most of us. I wouldn't do that on a cowboy forum (though, I wouldn't really be on a cowboy forum. I have no personal problem with you. But saying things like, "THEY WOULDN'T SAY THAT TO MY FACE!" even if meant in another way, doesn't help. I would absolutely say it to your face and it sounds like you're saying that because that's your own personal reasoning for why everyone else is stupid and you're correct. It's annoying. You want people to take you seriously? Know where you are. Stick to one persona. Don't say internet tough guy crap. Again, I like having you here, but man, sometimes your bias is unreal. And you refuse to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 You can also catch inflection and meaning in a face-to-face. I love engaging in debates with fans of other teams, and right now I'm taking classes to become a coach, so I'm learning more and more about the intricacies of the game. That's not to say I didn't know a right good amount beforehand, but it's the fine tuning that I'm getting most learned on. A good example would be the post I quoted earlier, when you asked me to reference what I had said about Ware and Orakpo. You said that it was a stretch to say that what I used as a reference was saying that Ware's job isn't to cover, but when you said that "why would a coach put him in a position other than what he's best at" (or however you phrased it), the inference is that it's not his job to cover.It is a lot easier to talk and discuss face-to-face, and it also is a little more civil. true it is indeed........... Congrats man. I hope you do become a coach.....I have to say, its one of the best things i have in my life (outside of my family life obviously) I have put in a lot of time to coaching...its a lot of work man....but every bit of it is worth it.......without coaching....i just do not know what I would do. And as much as it IS about the game...........it is MORE about the kids. And please keep this in mind, if i can offer any advice at all.....that would be. Make it fun for em. These kids are in the years of their life that are supposed to be fun.....they have the rest of their life to not have fun......college, jobs, fired from jobs, divorce, death, sickness...etc....but these kids (and i assume its HS that you want to coach) 14-18 years of age.............need to have fun! ---------- Post added May-26th-2011 at 01:01 PM ---------- And you've also shown times where you're totally biased. How do we know which version of TRPB we get? Just because we disagree with you doesn't mean anything, to be honest. You like to pass it off as many different things... From anything to "It's because I'm a Cowboy fan" all the way to "I'm right about this, no matter what!" Problem with you is, you don't admit you're wrong. And when you're on a Redskins forum, practically begging for credibility, that won't ever help your cause. Its your holier than thou attitude, which you do have, like it or not, that bothers most of us. I wouldn't do that on a cowboy forum (though, I wouldn't really be on a cowboy forum. I have no personal problem with you. But saying things like, "THEY WOULDN'T SAY THAT TO MY FACE!" even if meant in another way, doesn't help. I would absolutely say it to your face and it sounds like you're saying that because that's your own personal reasoning for why everyone else is stupid and you're correct. It's annoying. You want people to take you seriously? Know where you are. Stick to one persona. Don't say internet tough guy crap. Again, I like having you here, but man, sometimes your bias is unreal. And you refuse to admit it. Kdawg....listen man........same would apply. just because i don't agree with you sometimes, does not at all make me biased. But slow this down and lets not let this get away from us........answer me this please. What is it i "haven't" admitted to being wrong about? If there is something i missed, certainly i would like to see it. If we can be cival about this for a moment and you can tell me what it is i am wrong about, then I will admit it....I do not have a problem with that. And what you get with me Kdawg.....is an honest and true person, that most definitely is "biased leaning" towards the Cowboys (IE: I will tend to lean towards the Cowboys in anything that is right down the middle between the Skins and the Cowboys.....however, I have absolutly no problem at all admitting defeat an/or admitting when I am "wrong"..... example: If I said to you....The Cowboys and the skins split in 2005. And you came back and said....no, the Skins Swept the Cowboys in 2005.....I would then look it up, see that you are right and say Kdawg. Your right. I was mistaken, the Skins Swept the Cowboys in 05. So..........before this goes away, please tell me what I am "wrong" about and failed to admit it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Guys like Ware (and Rak) have meh coverage skills. Rak is lost in space at times. They aren't great linebackers. The linebacker spot they play is a linebacker by name only. I really wish they'd rename the position to something other than linebacker. It's a pass rush spot. Call it the Raptor or something . In SF when they had Charles Haley, they called it the Elephant position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I am working on a defense that is very simular to the 3-4/5-2.....and i am keeping the position names of the base 4-4 (i used wioth a team i left a few years ago....... OLB's are Lightning (Strong-side) and Thunder (Weak side) maybe i will make it to the college and then pro level in 25 years.....and then i can help change the name of the OLB position...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 true it is indeed...........Congrats man. I hope you do become a coach.....I have to say, its one of the best things i have in my life (outside of my family life obviously) I have put in a lot of time to coaching...its a lot of work man....but every bit of it is worth it.......without coaching....i just do not know what I would do. And as much as it IS about the game...........it is MORE about the kids. And please keep this in mind, if i can offer any advice at all.....that would be. Make it fun for em. These kids are in the years of their life that are supposed to be fun.....they have the rest of their life to not have fun......college, jobs, fired from jobs, divorce, death, sickness...etc....but these kids (and i assume its HS that you want to coach) 14-18 years of age.............need to have fun! ---------- Post added May-26th-2011 at 01:01 PM ---------- Kdawg....listen man........same would apply. just because i don't agree with you sometimes, does not at all make me biased. But slow this down and lets not let this get away from us........answer me this please. What is it i "haven't" admitted to being wrong about? If there is something i missed, certainly i would like to see it. If we can be cival about this for a moment and you can tell me what it is i am wrong about, then I will admit it....I do not have a problem with that. And what you get with me Kdawg.....is an honest and true person, that most definitely is "biased leaning" towards the Cowboys (IE: I will tend to lean towards the Cowboys in anything that is right down the middle between the Skins and the Cowboys.....however, I have absolutly no problem at all admitting defeat an/or admitting when I am "wrong"..... example: If I said to you....The Cowboys and the skins split in 2005. And you came back and said....no, the Skins Swept the Cowboys in 2005.....I would then look it up, see that you are right and say Kdawg. Your right. I was mistaken, the Skins Swept the Cowboys in 05. So..........before this goes away, please tell me what I am "wrong" about and failed to admit it? everything, better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 no.............you make no difference to me whatsoever. I was addressing Kdawg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 no.............you make no difference to me whatsoever. I was addressing Kdawg. didn't mean to hurt your feelings francis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 didn't mean to hurt your feelings francis ok Tweedy look. do me a favor, already assume this.......my feelings are not hurt. No matter what you say or what happens know that I am not going to get my feelings hurt by you......you are starting to creep me out a bit with the "feelings hurt" deal...........its creepy that you keep asking me. ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 ok Tweedy look. do me a favor, already assume this.......my feelings are not hurt. No matter what you say or what happens know that I am not going to get my feelings hurt by you......you are starting to creep me out a bit with the "feelings hurt" deal...........its creepy that you keep asking me. ugh! as kdawg said it's hard to tell over the interwebz, i couldn't tell if you were crying or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 as kdawg said it's hard to tell over the interwebz, i couldn't tell if you were crying or not Good lord....your so gay Tweedr............why would anyone.......ah nevermind.......your still so creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Good lord....your so gay Tweedr............why would anyone.......ah nevermind.......your still so creepy. lol, wow, i know you are but what am i? thanks pee wee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Good lord....your so gay Tweedr............why would anyone.......ah nevermind.......your still so creepy. You're. Why don't you just ignore him instead of saying things that make you look bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 You're. Why don't you just ignore him instead of saying things that make you look bad? your, you're......Ur.........whatever man. I hope like hell i do not get "graded" on my grammar here. Not much worse then the grammar poilice showing up on a forum/message board...... And i would say this Tweedr..........i didn't think i would ever see something as lame and childish as that to which you just posted, but then again..........i forgot who it was i was dealing with......I do believe I just finally hit the rock bottom with you man....... Now its beyond creepy and time for the ignore feature. Because in a way...you scare me. ---------- Post added May-26th-2011 at 02:35 PM ---------- You're. Why don't you just ignore him instead of saying things that make you look bad? yep. I am creep-ed out by that person and will def take that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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