Dr Drunkenstein Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 There seems to be an overwhelming consensus on this board that Vince is a talented guy but that his emotional ups and downs make him too much of a risk for the Redskins. I would submit that those emotional ups and downs exist for almost every player on every team but that certain coaches and organizations handle them better than others. There is a reason that Jeff Fisher was the longest tenured coach and never won a Superbowl. There is a reason that other coaches win multiple championships. Bill Simmons wrote a great article about Phil Jackson http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110513&sportCat=nba and I love this little segment about how he handled one particular player issue. Jeff Fisher could learn from this: His defining moment happened during the 1994 playoffs, when Pippen refused to re-enter Game 3 against New York after Jackson called the final play for Toni Kukoc. Instead of laying into Pippen after the game, Jackson trusted his players to handle the immediate aftermath. It ended up being done by Bill Cartwright, who screamed at Scottie with tears rolling down his face, incredulous that one of the league's most unselfish players would undermine that dogfight of a season -- when the Bulls somehow remained contenders with Jordan playing baseball -- by acting so selfishly.Jackson waited for the room to calm down, judged the moment for what it was, chalked it up as an aberration and moved on. More than a few coaches would have abandoned Pippen, claimed that he lost the team, pushed for him to be traded that summer. Jackson knew that Pippen's mistake came from a complicated place, a Molotov ****tail of insecurity, ego and frustration about his unfair salary. When Jordan left, everyone pushed Scottie to be the leader -- including Jackson -- but the Bulls didn't pay him like other franchise players, and now they were giving away his "You the man!" moment? Jackson wanted to understand why Pippen handled it so poorly, figured it out, determined it wouldn't happen again (hopefully), and defended him going forward. Coaching isn't just about calling plays, riding the officials and figuring out strategies. Really, it's management more than anything else. You manage people. Jackson managed people better than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEREALTOR1 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I watch my teams. But its a few teams that if there on I'll sit back and watch while not rooting for them I appreciate the team. i.e Redskins, Cowboys when Aikman & Emmitt were there, Tampa Bay, I like watching some Josh Freeman because he went to Kansas State. Anyway yea that's the gist of it. :munchout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Wow! More than a full week later and this thread is still at the top of the Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hell no! I would rather go a year with Grossman at the helm than spend anything for that nervous breakdown waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hell no! I would rather go a year with Grossman at the helm than spend anything for that nervous breakdown waiting to happen. Rex looks to be leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 rex looks to be leaving Party time! :jump::party: :dj: :party: :jump: Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 So GHH, would you be pleased if Rex wasn't back next season then .. It would be interesting to know who's forcing that move. Most thought he'd be back, so does he not want to be here, or is he not wanted ? However, I'm sure most don't care as long as he's gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Just throwing it out there - if Rex is leaving, it could be this is the most concrete sign that Mike is taking a greater control of the offense. If so, VY is more a fit than if Kyle was still the offensive game planner. Many of the schematic questions fade if this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Just throwing it out there - if Rex is leaving, it could be this is the most concrete sign that Mike is taking a greater control of the offense. If so, VY is more a fit than if Kyle was still the offensive game planner. Many of the schematic questions fade if this is the case. if VY's deep ball last year is any indication of what he could do here, i think he could work in kyles offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasthunder Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I think Rex leaving has a lot more to do with him wanting to start. He has mentioned that in more then a few interviews. And in Cincy he gets to do just that. With Shanahan making the public statement of his sentiment towards Beck, coupled with the writting on the wall that VY may be here, then one would have to think that Rex is on his way to another place to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookin4ahomeTexan Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Week 2 versus Pittsburgh, entering the 4th quarter the Titans were down by 10 points. Young started the game and played the first three quarters. Collins replaced Young in the fourth quarter. In one quarter of play, Collins threw 25 passes. Young threw 10 all game. So 25 of Collins 99 4th quarter pass attempts came in one game, that Young put them in the hole in. So in the rest of Collins 9 games, he threw 74 4th quarter passes. That's 26% of his total passes. Getting much closer to Young's 16% (which by the way, had he stayed in that game, would probably be higher.) I love your arguments. You have a lot of good points surrounded by cherry picked stats that don't take the actual game play into account. VY made 2 key mistakes and fumbled ones on a blitz. Given that if PITT wouldn't have ran a kickoff return the score would have been eventually 9-3 when VY went out of the game saying he put them in a hole is not really exaggerated but its a bit misleading. Pittsburgh scored 2 field goals in 3 quarters from these mistakes. Kerry Collins came in with 2 turnovers in only 2 possession. How do we measure the hole he put the Titans in? Without these 2 bad decisions VY is 5-6 for 66yds. The tape doesn't show he was having a terrible game. The tape shows he made 2 bad mistakes in 3 quarters and the Titans were having a bad game. Nevertheless he got benched. Collins passes came from 2 drives in which they were in the 2 minute offense. With 5 min left in the game Collins threw about 15 passes and scored. Then threw about 5 more. I'm basically arguing the misconception that VY was having a terrible day and lost this game. Kerry Collins game in and played even worst. The game changed only when they went to the 2 min shotgun offense with 5 min left in the game. I mean if your just going on bad play. Why wasn't VY put back in the game after Collins fumbled twice and threw an interception in only 2 possessions? I would argue that Vince helped put them in holes and then couldn't finish the game and Kerry HAD to throw more in the 4th because of this. Again here we are misleading, exaggerating against whats on the tape. By the 4th quarter VY is 10-21 for 253yds and 2tds, Having thrown his last past for a td Titans are down 2, 25-27. Chargers drive the field and Vince gets hurt on the second play after a scramble. It's 33-25 Kerry Collins comes in with 7 minutes in the hole that Young put them in. The tape shows that it was the defenses inability to stop the Chargers that put them in the hole. The very next week they lose to Miami. Once again things are misleading here because Collins started here. VY came in during the 3rd quarter down 10-13. He came in and threw the only passing td and threw his 3rd pick on 4th and 20 with 3 min left. Actually it was Collins who was playing terrible here. After getting hurt in the 3rd he was 9-20 for 51 yds. The next week the Titans played you guys. VY was 12-16 for 165. Sounds like a fairly good game to me. VY gets hurt on a 37 yd pass play for first down after a blitz. Its 1st and 10, Titans have the ball and the score is tied 13-13. Where's the hole. What I see is that though you say Young has some talent yet you give in little to no credit at all for winning the games that he's won. When they lose you give him all the credit. I mean your pretty much saying Vince put them in holes and then Collins had to come in and throw a lot in the end. Where's the defensive responsibility? Where's the games where the run game does nothing? In pretty much every game VY wins someone questions the amount of contribution he has or even that they overcame his play basically. However, when ever the defense is sucking which was a lot; Titans defensive rankings 2009 28th 2010 26th VY is the one that puts them in the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCranon21 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I wouldn't mind seeing VY here next season. Maybe just maybe this is where he needs to be. I'm not going to argue about passer ratings(which is an overrated stat to me), but the dude can play. I don't think he'll hinder Hankerson's progression as a rookie as he never had any real weapons down in Tennessee. So if he comes here, lets see what we can do with him under center. He'll be elusive if the pocket collapses and his arm is underrated. Again this is just my opinion. FYI, if you want to see the progress of him being signed or not...follow TK, LL56 or jsteelz on twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 More experts by the day comment on young bring a perfect fit for shannahan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 More experts by the day comment on young bring a perfect fit for shannahan. link? not doubting, just want to know who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 More experts by the day comment on young bring a perfect fit for shannahan. Most of these experts think the offense we run is the same as what Mike was running in Denver, when in reality it's really not. There wasn't nearly as many bootlegs/roll-outs last year as I expected, or as many "experts" seem to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 More experts by the day comment on young bring a perfect fit for shannahan. Most experts thought McNabb was also a prefect fit for Mike Shanahan's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpumd Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Most of these experts think the offense we run is the same as what Mike was running in Denver, when in reality it's really not. There wasn't nearly as many bootlegs/roll-outs last year as I expected, or as many "experts" seem to think. We ran a lot of bootlegs early in the season with McNabb until his legs became a problem. I think Kyle would prefer to run more bootlegs than what we saw later in the season with immobile-McNabb and Grossman. IMO, Kyle adapted his offense with these two immobile QBs. Same thing he did in Houston as Schaub is not that mobile a QB either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywog999 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I am building a nuclear device to wipe V. Young off the face of the earth. Seriously....I don't want him to come here, because I'm already sick of his ass...all 95 pages of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I am building a nuclear device 1.21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shemp nixon Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 More experts by the day comment on young bring a perfect fit for shannahan. Dude, what do you make the odds of VY coming to the Redskins, 50/50 or better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Most experts thought McNabb was also a prefect fit for Mike Shanahan's offense. Most experts didn't know McNabb would start nearly every game with a slip on a bootleg. Theoretically he should have been a fit with his mobility but his footwork held him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywog999 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 1.21 Just call me Doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Just throwing it out there - if Rex is leaving, it could be this is the most concrete sign that Mike is taking a greater control of the offense. If so, VY is more a fit than if Kyle was still the offensive game planner. Many of the schematic questions fade if this is the case.Imo Mike Shanahan taking more control is the best thing that could happen to the offense and the team.If #8 is gone and they get VY I would also believe that Mike Shanahan would be more involved with the offense. After passing on every QB in the draft and (hopefully)getting rid of #8; whichever QB they bring under these circumstances has to be someone they believe in, someone that can execute the offense at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Most experts thought McNabb was also a prefect fit for Mike Shanahan's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpumd Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Imo Mike Shanahan taking more control is the best thing that could happen to the offense and the team.If #8 is gone and they get VY I would also believe that Mike Shanahan would be more involved with the offense. This could very well be the case. I'm just throwing this out there too, but it isn't it also possible that Kyle has never been in the position to utilize a mobile QB, and therefore we don't exactly know his preferences? We all refer to Houston's offense as being the example of what Kyle wants to run here. But, perhaps the Houston offense would have looked quite different (and maybe more similar to Mike's Denver offense) had there been a more mobile QB in Houston than Schaub. I'm just saying, perhaps we don't necessarily know the exact type of offense Kyle prefers to run since we've only seen him operate with Schaub and McNabb/Grossman. Also to this point I think Kyle utilized a significant amount of bootlegs at the beginning of last season until McNabb's legs/mobility became an issue. Just throwing that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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