Reality: We Have 2 (4-3) Ends We're Trying to Convert to (3-4) OLBs/Ends

[Passizle]

No, this is an indication that Mike Shanahan said, "we need a pass rusher opposite Orakpo" and he was actually telling the truth. These 2 guys give us 2 dangerous players that teams MUST plan for. QB's won't know which side they're being rushed on, or whether we're bringing both the monsters.

Point. Set. Match.

Now... IF... the Skins can get a decent NT to clog up the middle, Orakpo and Kerrigan have a very good chance being the Skins version of a Harrison/Farrior combo...

I was pleasantly surpirse with the trade down. Personally I think they were keen on getting Ponder and did not expect the Vikes to grab him. It will be a nice treat to have something in the draft to look forward to tonight.

[KDawg]

Point. Set. Match.

Now... IF... the Skins can get a decent NT to clog up the middle, Orakpo and Kerrigan have a very good chance being the Skins version of a Harrison/Farrior combo...

I was pleasantly surpirse with the trade down. Personally I think they were keen on getting Ponder and did not expect the Vikes to grab him. It will be a nice treat to have something in the draft to look forward to tonight.

Harrison AND Farrior are both better against the run than Orakpo and Kerrigan. That said, the Steelers duo has also been doing it for A LOT longer. Something to be said for youth.

[gortiz]

it can be done ... i think ryan is as talented as Tedy, and his conversion worked out okay for the Pats.

[PeterMP]

I continue to be amazed at just how many people haven't learned a damn thing after a full year of us running the 3-4. These are the kinds of things that we discussed to exhaustion last offseason.

I'm amazed at how many people seem to think the OLBs in a 3-4 are just mirror images of the same position, and they have exactly the same job and only one job.

[jfriedenthal]

I think Orakpo's been successfully converted

This!

[Annonymous Source]

anyone else notice the irony

He is doing it wrong.

[KDawg]

I'm amazed at how many people seem to think the OLBs in a 3-4 are just mirror images of the same position, and they have exactly the same job and only one job.

No kidding. Both OLBs aren't supposed to be pass rushers first and foremost. Your WILL should be your better pass rusher. Your SAM should be capable of bringing heat, but should be a bit more stout against the run and in coverage. I'm not sure Kerrigan is going to be better in coverage, or good against the run.

So, would we move Orakpo to SAM? I'd hope not, truth be told. As a pass rusher, he's fantastic. As an outside linebacker in space/coverage he's still growing. I think we'd stunt his growth with a move.

So here's where we have an issue. We currently have two WILLs and one will have to play SAM. I think a good DC could find a way to make it work, unfortunately we have Haslett.

This!

To an extent, sure.

[PeterMP]

Point. Set. Match.

Now... IF... the Skins can get a decent NT to clog up the middle, Orakpo and Kerrigan have a very good chance being the Skins version of a Harrison/Farrior combo...

I was pleasantly surpirse with the trade down. Personally I think they were keen on getting Ponder and did not expect the Vikes to grab him. It will be a nice treat to have something in the draft to look forward to tonight.

Farrior is an ILB.

The Steelers OLBs are Woodely and Harrison. Harrisoin is a college LB who weighs under 250 lbs and was undrafted. Woodley is a converted college DE who weighs over 260 lbs.

The Packers play Frank Zombo opposite of Mathews. He was an undrafted freeagent that was a small school DE, and had 4 sacks last year. Mathews was a college LB.

[Popeman38]

No kidding. Both OLBs aren't supposed to be pass rushers first and foremost. Your WILL should be your better pass rusher. Your SAM should be capable of bringing heat, but should be a bit more stout against the run and in coverage. I'm not sure Kerrigan is going to be better in coverage, or good against the run.

Kerrigan will be better against the run than Orakpo. He is already better in space than Orakpo. He spent a whole lotta time at Purdue in a 2 point stance, whereas Orakpo had his hand in the dirt almost exclusively. Kerrigan didn't nearly as much hype as Orakpo because of where he played. Watch Purdue game tape, and listen to the reviews of the Big 10 coaches. Every offense in the Big 10 game-planned to stop Kerrigan; he was the force on def for Purdue. He still put up monster numbers. He was a unanimous 1st team All American last year. He took over games for Purdue. Watch the ND game, and you will see him wreaking havoc all over the field.

If Kerrigan had played at Michigan or Ohio St or Texas, or any SEC school, he would have been a Top 5 pick because of all the national games played last year. Several scouts had him as the best def player in the draft. We got him at 16.

[Fdallas4Life12]

No kidding. Both OLBs aren't supposed to be pass rushers first and foremost. Your WILL should be your better pass rusher. Your SAM should be capable of bringing heat, but should be a bit more stout against the run and in coverage. I'm not sure Kerrigan is going to be better in coverage, or good against the run.

So, would we move Orakpo to SAM? I'd hope not, truth be told. As a pass rusher, he's fantastic. As an outside linebacker in space/coverage he's still growing. I think we'd stunt his growth with a move.

So here's where we have an issue. We currently have two WILLs and one will have to play SAM. I think a good DC could find a way to make it work, unfortunately we have Haslett.

In a 4-3 the Will LB is your blitz/cover LB and the Sam LB is the Run support/cover LB. However in a 3-4 you can stunt, and blitz for either edge, fake blitz and drop from either edge. Kerrigan is a great pick up and both he and Orakpo will be blitzing, stunting, dropping into coverage and faking alot. Thats the great thing about a 3-4 D. You can fake and stunt alot more. Other teams are going to have a hard time knowing which guy is coming or if both are or if both are faking and dropping, not to mention the Inside backers that will be coming as well! We will be fine.

[PeterMP]

Kerrigan will be better against the run than Orakpo. He is already better in space than Orakpo. He spent a whole lotta time at Purdue in a 2 point stance, whereas Orakpo had his hand in the dirt almost exclusively. Kerrigan didn't nearly as much hype as Orakpo because of where he played. Watch Purdue game tape, and listen to the reviews of the Big 10 coaches. Every offense in the Big 10 game-planned to stop Kerrigan; he was the force on def for Purdue. He still put up monster numbers. He was a unanimous 1st team All American last year. He took over games for Purdue. Watch the ND game, and you will see him wreaking havoc all over the field.

If Kerrigan had played at Michigan or Ohio St or Texas, or any SEC school, he would have been a Top 5 pick because of all the national games played last year. Several scouts had him as the best def player in the draft. We got him at 16.

This is where in the draft thread, I admitted I don't know this guy. I don't watch much college football and didn't watch Prudue at all.

If he can complement Orakpo in the non-pass rush part of the game, then this could be a very good pick. If he's Orakpo clone, then I don't like this at all.

Though no matter what I'm a little worried about having 2 high picks as OLB. One of the things about the 3-4 is you are suppossed to be able to pick up OLBs w/o to much (as the Steelers and the Packers both start undrafted freeagents at one OLB).

[RandyHolt]

Are we going back to a 4-3? I wish. I dont doubt he will be able to compete in pass coverage and playing backwards one day, but Rak had some struggles in pass coverage. Are we positive he will be able to excel in space? For a 16th overall, its risky.

I just dont see a natural 4-3 DE as someone I would covet at 16 with no QB. If we need a kicker should we draft a total stud punter and convert him? I was not impressed with the collective converted DE's play at OLB last year. Its the same folks projecting him. They thought Carter could do it. It took them half a year to figure it out. Carter Alexander and Rak all looked stiff in space.

Orakpo got his 10 sacks but offenses knew he was coming. He was not in pass coverage for a reason. He was hand in the dirt a lot last year. Are we going to be predictable and rush both our studs, or is one going to have to be in space?

[KDawg]

In a 4-3 the Will LB is your blitz/cover LB and the Sam LB is the Run support/cover LB. However in a 3-4 you can stunt, and blitz for either edge, fake blitz and drop from either edge.

In the 2-gap 3-4 system, the responsibilities are very similar to those in the 4-3. You can stunt in a 4-3 as well. The WILL is always the premiere pass rusher on a 3-4 2-gap defense, like we run. Yes, they will both blitz, but Kerrigan, at SAM, will be asked to be in coverage more often. He lines up to the tight ends side. If he's not in coverage we're rolling a safety up or having our MIKE (Fletcher) in coverage with a TE. I love Fletch, but if we're manned up he's not a great option. We can hide this a bit with the use of the zone blitz.

Kerrigan is a great pick up and both he and Orakpo will be blitzing, stunting, dropping into coverage and faking alot. Thats the great thing about a 3-4 D. You can fake and stunt alot more. Other teams are going to have a hard time knowing which guy is coming or if both are or if both are faking and dropping, not to mention the Inside backers that will be coming as well! We will be fine.

This doesn't change the fact that neither one is really a SAM. So even if they switch roles, one of them STILL has to have SAM responsibility. That scares me.

[NoVaSkins21]

I really hope the square peg, round hole argument doesn't apply here. Maybe Kerrigan turns into our version of Clay Matthews. I know that's a stretch, but I'm trying.

[DCMONEY]

I love Orakpo but he's not great in space. He's better coming after the QB's on all fours. This guy is less athletic than Orakpo. He seems to be suited better coming after the QB.

That being both are are gonna be learning when out in space. Its different from plauying end full time just coming after the QB. Time will tell though.

[ncr2h]

Any idea what we're doing with the other MLB position? IMO we need to find a way to keep Lorenzo Alexander on the field - he did a great job last year. Any way Kerrigan moves inside, or is that out of the question? What about Alexander moving inside?

[NattyLight]

Yes there is a learning curve but 90% of 3-4 OLB's are college 4-3 DE's. There just aren't many colleges that play the 3-4.

And it's also extremely difficult. Georgia Tech switched to the 3-4 last year and it was laughable. But they also had a gaggle of redshirtted freshman that were hand-picked to fit that scheme. Point being, it's going to take to some time. But you want Orakpo and [presumably] Kerrigan to get that motor goingin space so they can embarrass OT's.

[NickGiaquinto1]

Now wAtch locker and gabbert flourish while the skins flounder with their horrible offense.... Nice move shanny.... Another disaster ... The big question this morning, in two years when shanny is fired, who will be the next coach to clean up this mess?

[Fdallas4Life12]

This doesn't change the fact that neither one is really a SAM. So even if they switch roles, one of them STILL has to have SAM responsibility. That scares me.

Sam LB and Will LB are not as Black and White as they are in a 4-3. Reguardless Kerrigan is a good run stopper not just a good pass rusher. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how him and Rak will do. just my 2 cents

---------- Post added April-29th-2011 at 11:41 AM ----------

I love Orakpo but he's not great in space. He's better coming after the QB's on all fours. This guy is less athletic than Orakpo. He seems to be suited better coming after the QB.

That being both are are gonna be learning when out in space. Its different from plauying end full time just coming after the QB. Time will tell though.

Everyone so worried about Rak and Kerr in space. They arent' going to be covering guys down field. They will be covering the flats (which is up infront of them to the sidelines and some hook to curl stuff. They will be fine out in space. If they are coving people down field like Andre Johnson on a fly route then we could worry. Fact of the matter is they are covering short dump off passes and short to intermediate stuff when they arent blitzing.

[KDawg]

Sam LB and Will LB are not as Black and White as they are in a 4-3. Reguardless Kerrigan is a good run stopper not just a good pass rusher. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how him and Rak will do. just my 2 cents

Either way, they need to be able to cover. And yes, the WILL IS usually the better pass rusher of the two and the SAM is generally better in coverage. It's the nature of lining up on the tight end. Even in the 3-4.

Everyone so worried about Rak and Kerr in space. They arent' going to be covering guys down field.

Like Rak did last year and failed quite a few times? By the way, one of them will have to be in man coverage if we send any kind of pressure that isn't a zone blitz.

[daNattyFatty]

Now wAtch locker and gabbert flourish while the skins flounder with their horrible offense.... Nice move shanny.... Another disaster ... The big question this morning, in two years when shanny is fired, who will be the next coach to clean up this mess?

Yeah, ok.

[Fdallas4Life12]

Either way, they need to be able to cover. And yes, the WILL IS usually the better pass rusher of the two and the SAM is generally better in coverage. It's the nature of lining up on the tight end. Even in the 3-4.

Like Rak did last year and failed quite a few times? By the way, one of them will have to be in man coverage if we send any kind of pressure that isn't a zone blitz.

Your assuming we will be in man coverage alot. The Sam will only have to cover the TE if we are in a cover 1 (man) If we are in zone then he will drop to the flats/ and or hook to curl depending on the zone coverage. Yes if he is in man one of them will have to cover the TE (most likely the Sam due to alignment). That is a skill he will have to work at. My guess is that if we are in man coverage we will be sending the house or be in man coverage primarily on running down to avoid having them cover for a long period of time. I understand your concern I just dont think it is as big a concern as everyone is making it out to be given his athletism.

edit: you can also send both the Will and Sam in a Man blitz, I wouldn't do it alot bc, then one of your inside backers will be on the TE. ( like Fletcher did last year!) Also If they dont come out in 3 wr sets then the outside backers wont have to cover the TE they will be responsible for the back out of the back field. If they come out in 2 wr sets and a TE then the secondary in Man coverage will take the two Wr's and the TE and still have a safety over top. All will be ok

[dahibachi]

Now wAtch locker and gabbert flourish while the skins flounder with their horrible offense.... Nice move shanny.... Another disaster ... The big question this morning, in two years when shanny is fired, who will be the next coach to clean up this mess?

wow really? Really?? The Titans got absolutely blasted for not only picking Locker but picking him ahead of gabbert. This was a great pick for the Redskins. We add a player that can absolutely help from game 1. Now teams can't just sit there and say "they can only bring Orakpo so make sure to stack the protection where ever he is." In the process we added a second 2nd round pick which means, we traded down six spots, STILL got OUR guy and now can add two more players early in the 2nd round that can immediately take the field for the Redskins. This was the best i could have hoped for. I thank the 49ers, Cardinals and Titans for passing on Gabbert.

[Enter Apotheosis]

I'm amazed at how many people seem to think the OLBs in a 3-4 are just mirror images of the same position, and they have exactly the same job and only one job.

Peter, there would be very legitimate questions about the ability of any player we drafted to play the position Kerrigan was drafted to play. With some guys you have questions about their effectiveness in space (e.g., Quinn, Reed, and Houston) and with others you have questions about their ability to play the run and shed blockers (e.g., Miller and Ayers). Predicting who will succeed in adapting to the new role is far from an exact science. In fact, I'd say that it is ludicrous to expect any single person on this board to be able to successfully determine the career trajectory of any of these guys in a 3-4 without just taking a shot in the dark and getting lucky.

It may be short-sighted to assume that both OLBs will be doing the same things at the same frequencies. However, it is equally short-sighted to assume that you know the mold we're looking for at either position and exactly how we're going to use them. If coverage was as big a part of the equation as some people seem to be indicating, there are a number of very good LOLBs whose success is hard to explain.

[KDawg]

Your assuming we will be in man coverage alot. The Sam will only have to cover the TE if we are in a cover 1 (man) If we are in zone then he will drop to the flats/ and or hook to curl depending on the zone coverage.

I'm not assuming anything. As I said, "By the way, one of them will have to be in man coverage if we send any kind of pressure that isn't a zone blitz."

Another FYI type of thing... Man can be both Cover 1 OR Cover 0. Heck, it could be a 2 Under concept as well.

Not sure why you're talking to me like I don't know the game

edit: you can also send both the Will and Sam in a Man blitz, I wouldn't do it alot bc, then one of your inside backers will be on the TE. ( like Fletcher did last year!)

Said this a couple pages ago as well.

Also If they dont come out in 3 wr sets then the outside backers wont have to cover the TE they will be responsible for the back out of the back field. If they come out in 2 wr sets and a TE then the secondary in Man coverage will take the two Wr's and the TE and still have a safety over top. All will be ok

This isn't necessarily correct.

If they come out in 1 Tight 2 Receiver formation such as a base Pro formation and our call is 2 Under, the safeties will NOT be rolling up in man coverage. They will be playing deep halves. The outside backer will have to account for the TE and the inside backer to the backs flare side will pick up the back in man responsibility.

If we were in a Cover 1 that other safety could roll up and cover the TE and then the outside backers would be responsible for whatever back swings their way.

A lot of it is based on scouting. But either way, we saw Rak in coverage last year. There is NO reason to believe we won't be seeing both of them in coverage this year.

---------- Post added April-29th-2011 at 01:21 PM ----------

If coverage was as big a part of the equation as some people seem to be indicating, there are a number of very good LOLBs whose success is hard to explain.

And here's my clincher to this argument...

Jim Haslett.

I have NO faith in the man.