The Tris Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Why does Mike Shanahan have a blank check when it comes to his QB record? Do we just ignore Donovan McNabb? Was that not an epic failure in terms of evaluating a QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I've been saying basically the same thing in the other thread gore. I'm a bit surprised so many people are so risk averse to acquiring a potential franchise QB. Sitting around waiting for one to fall into your laps on draft day is wishful thinking IMO. Maybe Gabbert falls, maybe he doesn't. Better to go and pay and make sure you get him because this is the QB position we're talking about.Like you say, excellent OL FAs + a franchise QB + a probowl caliber HB in this year's class truly does change the trajectory of the organization. You're talking about a completely done over offense. A freaking good offense. The kind of top passing and rushing offense that can take you deep in the playoffs if you compliment it with an opportunistic defense that controls the LoS fairly well and shuts down the pass in stretches. You know how we can get that kind of defense? Draft or sign one impact defensive lineman. Maybe you sacrifice the Williams pick this year for such a player at 41 (Stephen Paea/Adrian Clayborn). It's not like trading a 2012 first clamps the window shut and eliminates all of our avenues towards improvement. We gave up 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks for a 34 year old washed up QB and a 30 year old injured OT last year and people near universally appluaded the moves. That's a much worse price to pay because of their much lower potential for return IMO. Indeed, we got almost no return on those moves and we still improved. Shanahan weathered that, he can weather anything. Would people really be so opposed to a move that could bring us a true franchise QB? You either trust Shanahan's ability to pick and develop a QB or you don't. I do, and I hope he does this. Well said. There are enough draft geeks who say Gabbert is a franchise QB or at worst a potential franchise QB for those that follow them and care what they have to say. Otherwise its a matter of do you think that you know QB's and Gabbert in particular better than Shanny -- becuase yeah no one will be bemoaning this if it works out. We've tried the drafting QBs outside of the top 10 -- Campbell, Ramsey. We blew a top ten pick with Shuler. You look at Cincy they blew it with A. Smith but went back to the well again with Carson Palmer. Chargers screwed up with R. Leaf but came back with P. Rivers. Lions screwed up with Harrington but came back with Stafford. IMO we have to stop being afraid of reliving the Heath Shuler trade -- its really the only time we went after what people were saying was the best QB in the draft/franchise type. We can experiment again with a late first guy like Dalton but that IMO is the more risky move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Why does Mike Shanahan have a blank check when it comes to his QB record?Do we just ignore Donovan McNabb? Was that not an epic failure in terms of evaluating a QB? He's missed on more than McNabb. Better track record than most, but that's not saying much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 We blew a top ten pick with Shuler. You look at Cincy they blew it with A. Smith but went back to the well again with Carson Palmer. Chargers screwed up with R. Leaf but came back with P. Rivers. Lions screwed up with Harrington but came back with Stafford. IMO we have to stop being afraid of reliving the heath Shuler trade -- its really the only time we went after what people were saying is the best QB in the draft/franchise type. At least all those picks were only blowing 1 first rounder. There is a huge difference in trading 2 first rounders for an unproven QB. And if you were against the Cutler trade, you should be even more against this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 thats nuts if were trying to move up. thats extremely stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Why does Mike Shanahan have a blank check when it comes to his QB record?Do we just ignore Donovan McNabb? Was that not an epic failure in terms of evaluating a QB? No one bats 1000. That screw up puts this trade if it happens as the be all and end all for Shanny, he can't screw it up IMO. Who do you trust on the board, draft geek, etc for a better opinion on Gabbert than Shanny? ---------- Post added April-27th-2011 at 10:14 AM ---------- At least all those picks were only blowing 1 first rounder.There is a huge difference in trading 2 first rounders for an unproven QB. And if you were against the Cutler trade, you should be even more against this trade. I wasn't against the Cutler trade. Every player in the draft is unproven. How long can we go without a franchise QB? Its been decades now -- it hasn't really worked for us. ---------- Post added April-27th-2011 at 10:16 AM ---------- thats nuts if were trying to move up. thats extremely stupid. Depends on what the compensation is, do anyone of us know what it is? yeah agree it could be something insane or maybe not or heck maybe the whole thing is a smokescreen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mithong1 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 we need a quarterback. if the shannys believe gabbert is our guy, i am all for them trading up to 2. ---------- Post added April-27th-2011 at 10:19 AM ---------- there are obviously exceptions, but generally, if you want a franchise qb, you have to pick HIGH in the first round. this talk about building the rest of our team up first, getting a qb later, is junk. how do you guys know that we'll have the opportunity to draft a franchise qb later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsTime Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Shanahan better be right if he pulls the trigger. Otherwise, this sets the franchise back another 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I wasn't against the Cutler trade. Every player in the draft is unproven. How long can we go without a franchise QB? From a hypothetical standpoint, if you didn't like the compensation for the Cutler trade, it is silly to like the compensation for the Gabbert trade, which is a worse deal with a far more unknown player. Depends on what the compensation is, do anyone of us know what it is? yeah agree it could be something insane or maybe not or heck maybe the whole thing is a smokescreen TK has told us the working compensation is 10th 2011, 1st rounder 2012, 3rd rounder 2012. This is subject to change, but that is the current proposed deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mithong1 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Shanahan better be right if he pulls the trigger. Otherwise, this sets the franchise back another 5 years. if he ends up being right, our franchise will be a consistent contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 If the lockout ends tonight, how about McNabb, Haynesworth #10 and a 5th for that #2. I'd do that. The Broncos wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 TK has told us the working compensation is 10th 2011, 1st rounder 2012, 3rd rounder 2012. This is subject to change, but that is the current proposed deal. That I wouldn't mind so much. Gabbert seems to have everything you need to be a good QB in the league and Mayock has him atop his QB's list. If we can get the #2 and not give up our 2nd round pick I wouldn't be too upset. To me this deal come down to the compensation aspect. Give up too much and I'll be dissappointed. Give up something reasonable like above, I can live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructis Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 JLC's sources are "rumblings" and "other NFL GMs" ... yeah this some rock solid info! Jimmy Clausen pt 2. imo. Except that JSteelz, TK and LavarLeap56 are all saying the same thing. Smokescreen? Maybe but maybe not. If it is a smokescreen, Shanny's rep points went up with me. If it's not, then in Shanny I trust until proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 we do not have picks to trade. if we're going to mortgage the future like this to gamble on a QB im going to be very disappointed with bruce allen. it will be the first move he makes that im 100% against. i just cannot believe he'd be this stupid. even if were in love with blaine gabbert, to bundle the few picks we have for a complete unknown is very stupid, considering the holes this team has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mithong1 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 is it me, or does blaine gabbert look similar to heath ledger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 trying to trade UP to get gabbert, instead of trading DOWN to 17 or somewhere to get Locker or Ponder would be a franchise killing error... Well, that's a little overdramatic. And that sig is waaaay too big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_trizzy Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I apologize if I missed it but are we certain Carolina isn't going to take Gabbert? Because if we trade up to #2 and take Cam Newton I'm going to puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 we need a quarterback. if the shannys believe gabbert is our guy, i am all for them trading up to 2.---------- Post added April-27th-2011 at 10:19 AM ---------- there are obviously exceptions, but generally, if you want a franchise qb, you have to pick HIGH in the first round. this talk about building the rest of our team up first, getting a qb later, is junk. how do you guys know that we'll have the opportunity to draft a franchise qb later? I agree, if this is "The Guy", then i would defer to Shanny. I just hope he pans out and it isn't a big pie in our faces....Also, if we do trade up, i hope that we could still trade down from our high #2 to accumulate more picks. We need quantity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I apologize if I missed it but are we certain Carolina isn't going to take Gabbert? Because if we trade up to #2 and take Cam Newton I'm going to puke. If Carolina takes Gabbert the trade with Denver wont happen...if somehow it still happens we are there to grab Dareus not Newton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrifNick21 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Carolina's taking Newton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 He's missed on more than McNabb. Better track record than most, but that's not saying much Most people weren't saying Clady was the best LT in the draft People weren't saying Cutler was the best QB in that draft Clinton Portis in the 2nd and a ton of late round RBs who made it Brandon Marshall in the 4th round Hillis in the the 7th Yeah he's made mistakes but I don't think he's reached the stage where the draft geeks now know more than him about offense and franchise Qbs IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I agree, if this is "The Guy", then i would defer to Shanny. I just hope he pans out and it isn't a big pie in our faces....Also, if we do trade up, i hope that we could still trade down from our high #2 to accumulate more picks. We need quantity! even if shanny thinks he is "the guy", trading up to get him will kill us if hes wrong. if you stay at 10 and take locker or whoever, youre wedded to 1 draft pick. if its wrong, you lost that draft pick, it hurts but its 1 pick. you trade up to #x and now youre spending multiple draft picks on 1 player, and its wrong, now youve busted on like 3-4 picks all at once. too risky IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 two ways to look at this rumor. 1) this franchise is so messed up already that there is no harm in mortgaging the future because the future looks bad no matter what they do. or 2) when you are stuck in a hole the first rule of thumb is to stop digging the hole deeper. the skins need to stop wasting valuable draft picks. with so many needs the smart thing for them to do is keep their picks and use them to draft the top talent available and entertain offers to move back in the draft for extra immediate and or future picks. my choice would be to stop digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 we do not have picks to trade. if we're going to mortgage the future like this to gamble on a QB im going to be very disappointed with bruce allen. it will be the first move he makes that im 100% against. i just cannot believe he'd be this stupid. even if were in love with blaine gabbert, to bundle the few picks we have for a complete unknown is very stupid, considering the holes this team has. Shanny being running offenses from the 1980s, he has the rep whether deserved or not as an offensive guru. If I am Bruce Allen and Shanny comes to me and says something like: look we can be competitive but we aren't winning a Superbowl one day without a franchise QB -- none of the other guys am convinced are franchise material, and I don't expect us to be the worst team in the NFL next season so we aren't getting Andrew Luck, i think Gabbert is the goods I'll stake my rep on it, and Denver is offering a relatively reasonable deal -- if i were Allen i wouldn't slam the door in his face but listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 We don't need a top 5 pick to get a Franchise QB. Hell, of the current starters, only 12 of them have been picked in the top 5 and a few of them have been busts or have only been good for a little bit. (VY and Palmer) Out of the "elite" QB's, only about 5/12 have been picked in the top 5. They can be found elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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