NDIrish Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I think you have extremely high hopes if you think you can get better than a 3rd rounder, and I think a 4th is much more likely for Cooley. Besidae the previous regime here, teams put an extremely high value on draft picks and would not be willing to give one up for a tight end that has only played in 17 games of the last 32. Cooley has been a great member of this franchise, but he simply does not have that kind of value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 His playoff record was still on the level of the below-average Redskins over the same span. Sounds pretty rough. In those 10 years, imagine if the Redskins had only 2 losing seasons, had double digit win seasons 4 times, including a 13-3 season, and were in the playoffs 4 times. Yeah those weren't glorious, NE Patriot type of years, far from it. But yeah just running with his record WITHIN the playoffs, and painting him completely with that brush implying that their run was similar to the Redskins who were one of the worst teams in the NFL in that span is big time misleading. Cowboys weren't hot in the playoffs either for a longer span than 10 years -- but few (unfortunately) paint the Cowboys run in bleak terms the way people do the Redskins. Redskins have just plain stunk with a rare occasional sneak in the playoffs. Our glory year in that span was a 10-6 record. An no the Redskins aren't a good apples to apples comparison to Denver in that span. ---------- Post added March-12th-2011 at 09:21 AM ---------- How's that? Mike averaged eight picks a year in Denver over his last ten years. His playoff record was still on the level of the below-average Redskins over the same span. Actually 8.2 but yeah I don't think there is any question that Shanny likes to collect draft picks. McNabb is an exception to the rule. Oldfan has a point IMO from other posts in that how well will shanny do with those picks. I have more faith in him than Oldfan does -- but i don't contend he's a Pioli, Ted Thompson caliber type. Lets hope his last three years in Denver is a portent to how well he does here as opposed to the few years before that where he had a bad run. I am not a big fan personally of the coach/GM hybrid position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 or I can simply say Cooley has more trade value since Davis has not "proven himself" and Cooley is on the peak of his career and not even 30 yet. Cooley could get us a 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder and Davis could not. I have a feeling he's gonna be gone before next season. As far as TE's in this day and age a 2nd is too low for Cooley. A 2nd and another pick/player would be more reasonable for the Redskins. I don't see him going anywhere though. A young QB would get up to speed quicker with Cooley and Davis in the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 As usual, you don't have my position nailed.. Nope. That's the theory you started out with last season when Mike was hired. Win now. You're probably in re-write 52 or 53 right now, so I can't blame you for not even remembering where you started. Keep spinning......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 or I can simply say Cooley has more trade value since Davis has not "proven himself" and Cooley is on the peak of his career and not even 30 yet. Cooley could get us a 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder and Davis could not. I have a feeling he's gonna be gone before next season. I have a hard time seeing someone giving up a 2nd rounder for a good TE. ---------- Post added March-12th-2011 at 03:42 PM ---------- If this turns out to be true, it shoots a gaping hole in Oldfan's Shanny theory.Of course, what else is new. I've been hoping all offseason that we trade down from #10 and acquire more picks so that we can give this team a major infusion of youth and talent. Hope that Shanny's gonna make that happen. He also thinks Shanny and Norv Turner "measure the same" Anyway, we're probably going OLB with #10. I'd like to trade down and get Gabbert/Locker if available, but not at #10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTillIDie Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Gonzo caught 153 passes for 12 tds in his 2 years in Atlanta. Sure that was a drop from his peak but Atlanta knew that would happen when you trade for a 33 year old. While I agree he probably was not worth the 2nd I think they got exactly what they were looking to get. And even though they didn't win a playoff game the Falcons were way better the past 2 years so I wouldn't call that trade as a bust. In retrospect though, where did that trade get them? And the Falcons actually regressed in the year after getting Gonzalez, going from 11-5 to 9-7, 10th in the league in points to 13th, and 6th in yards to 16th. The trade is vaguely similar to the one where we traded, I believe, a 4th rounder to the Jets for the 34-year-old Pete Kendall. He immediately solidified a major hole at left guard and played decently for 2 seasons. However, once he wasn't re-signed, what did we have to show for it? Both the Redskins and Falcons were somewhat desperate for an upgrade at that position -- I don't believe there's any team with the same level of desperation seeking an immediate impact at tight end these days. Or a GM who's looking to save his ass now at the expense of the long haul. I think if you were to ask the Falcons (in private) if they'd do the trade again, I bet you they wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapHaszard Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 It could be done, Hap.Mike would have to channel George Allen. George would trade every pick on the board for vets, including some for future years, and he would be like a kid in a candy store with the free agent market. George was a good judge of vets, of course. No roster building plan will work if you can't judge talent. We might not win Super Bowls, but most Skins fans loved George. Well as it was said about George, he was given an unlimited budget and exceeded it in the first week. If I remember George traded the same pick to 2 different teams, he was dealing picks so fast he forgot which ones he had already traded. One other thing George knew how to do was leave before the door slammed shut also. I was looking at the ages of a lot of the posters on here and realized that most of them were so young at the time the Redskins were last good that they probably don't know the feeling we had during George and Gibbs tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 .. He also thinks Shanny and Norv Turner "measure the same"Measure the same in WHAT? If you're going to twist my words at least have the twisted sentence make some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Unless Dareus falls into their laps trading out of the 10 spot would be the best use of that pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 The trade is vaguely similar to the one where we traded, I believe, a 4th rounder to the Jets for the 34-year-old Pete Kendall. He immediately solidified a major hole at left guard and played decently for 2 seasons. However, once he wasn't re-signed, what did we have to show for it? Chad Rinehart was what we had to show for it. Dockery left, we signed Kendall. We then got a 3rd round compensatory pick for the loss of Dockery, and used it on Rinehart. How ironic it was to see us in later years then re-sign Dockery & cut Rinehart. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Chad Rinehart was what we had to show for it.Dockery left' date=' we signed Kendall. We then got a 3rd round compensatory pick for the loss of Dockery, and used it on Rinehart. How ironic it was to see us in later years then re-sign Dockery & cut Rinehart. :doh:[/quote']How about the irony of having Rinehart starting at G for Buffalo at season's end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 How about the irony of having Rinehart starting at G for Buffalo at season's end? Indeed, whilst Dock was keeping the other Redskin inactives company from about week 4 onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Well as it was said about George, he was given an unlimited budget and exceeded it in the first week. If I remember George traded the same pick to 2 different teams, he was dealing picks so fast he forgot which ones he had already traded.One other thing George knew how to do was leave before the door slammed shut also. I was looking at the ages of a lot of the posters on here and realized that most of them were so young at the time the Redskins were last good that they probably don't know the feeling we had during George and Gibbs tenure. Hap, thank you for the trip down memory lane. I remember the 1st SB under Allen. I will always remember the thumb licking and kneeling. He was a brilliant defensive mind. He created the nickle coverage plus had the best special teams in all the NFL. His players believed in him enough to chant along with his quirky rah rah's after the game and sometimes before. The Over-the-Hill Gang were beyond their prime and it was time for George to retire. So many memories of cheering with my Dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashburn Dave Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 We're trading Cooley for a second rounder 5 min. after CBA negotiations are done. ...basically. I am dancing in the streets if we were to get a 2nd rounder for Cooley..........although I would need to get a new jersey for the wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Art Monkey Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The idea that we can trade Cooley for a highly valued pick defies logic; the idea that we should trade Cooley defies reason. Yeah, and stuff. I had more things to say but this guy pretty much summed it up for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversized Toddler Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 If we ever saw the day where we had eight picks in the first four rounds, I know what I'd be doing that day. I'd be sailing around the world with my beautiful wife while celebrating, or taking a tour of the lower 48 in my private jet. Or, I could just sit around all day watching on my 10 foot big screen in my mansion atop the mountains in Beverly Hills. Then I'd wake up from my dream, shrug, and go on with my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 To me this is more evidence that it wasn't Shanahan who brought in McNabb. I think Shanny has done a very good job of taking the heat for Danny on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 To me this is more evidence that it wasn't Shanahan who brought in McNabb.I think Shanny has done a very good job of taking the heat for Danny on this one. This pretty much proves that McNabb is on Shanahan. You increase your available picks by being ahead of the wave and McNabb was obviously an attempt to get ahead of the wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobaga Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 When was the last time the Skins' had a good draft? Sure they have hit on top 10 no-brainers. When was the last time the Skin's got two pro bowl caliber players in one draft? Or (God forbid) three above average players in one draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 When was the last time the Skins' had a good draft? Sure they have hit on top 10 no-brainers. When was the last time the Skin's got two pro bowl caliber players in one draft? Or (God forbid) three above average players in one draft? Does he mean by draft bounty he wants to find high level contributors or just have a lots of picks? Overall numbers of the NFL indicate that a team having lots of picks tends to find more high level contributors since you can combine more of a shotgun approach to the draft and take risks. All though somewhat subjective, 2004 did see an above NFL average ratio of our picks go on to be top tier contributors (although 1 did find his career cut very short). You can't really expect to find multiple top contributors unless you've got at least 6 picks. Good teams will do better in the draft, not necessarily because they scout better or have better coaches but because they are better so provide a better environment to develop their rookies. The key is get in front of the wave, let the draft come to you and don't panic. On occasion, though, you do find top contributors even when you are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversized Toddler Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 When was the last time the Skin's got two pro bowl caliber players in one draft? 2004 with Sean Taylor and Chris Cooley. Or (God forbid) three above average players in one draft? You could make an argument for 2008 with Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly and Chris Horton, but above average is subjective. Keeping that in mind, you could also make a case for 2006 with Rocky McIntosh, Reed Doughty and Kedric Golston. That being said, I honestly think you'd be hard pressed to find any team with three above average players picked up in one draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I had a dream last night we traded down two spots to #12. I just saw it real quick on the crawl on ESPN so I'm not surewhat the compensation was. I wanna say a 3rd though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobaga Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 2004 with Sean Taylor and Chris Cooley.that could have been a great draft.... You could make an argument for 2008 with Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly and Chris Horton, but above average is subjective. Keeping that in mind, you could also make a case for 2006 with Rocky McIntosh, Reed Doughty and Kedric Golston. That being said, I honestly think you'd be hard pressed to find any team with three above average players picked up in one draft. not sure Malcom Kelly or Fred Davis would be considered above average players at this point in their careers (I still have hope). Chris Horton had a great year, then an injury plagued year and is now a back up. I don't think Golston qualifies as an above average player. Rocky is no longer in the team's plans and Doughty looks like an above average special teamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 not sure Malcom Kelly or Fred Davis would be considered above average players at this point in their careers (I still have hope). Chris Horton had a great year, then an injury plagued year and is now a back up. I don't think Golston qualifies as an above average player. Rocky is no longer in the team's plans and Doughty looks like an above average special teamer. If you extend that logic out, no team has ever had a good draft since everybody is eventually no longer in the team plans. Most draft picks will never play for the team that drafted them and if they do, the average player only makes it 3 years (and not always with the same team) and many never even start. During his 5 years, Rocky was DEFINITELY above average since he played +3 years for the same team and started the majority of his games. He was also arguably just short of good, Doughty and Golston because they have played longer than average and have started are also above average. Fred Davis is also probably above average at this point in his career but looking at guys with 3 or fewer years of experience (except immediate contributors like Taylor and Cooley) is not really a tangible argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobaga Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 If you extend that logic out, no team has ever had a good draft since everybody is eventually no longer in the team plans. Most draft picks will never play for the team that drafted them and if they do, the average player only makes it 3 years (and not always with the same team) and many never even start. During his 5 years, Rocky was DEFINITELY above average since he played +3 years for the same team and started the majority of his games. He was also arguably just short of good, Doughty and Golston because they have played longer than average and have started are also above average. Fred Davis is also probably above average at this point in his career but looking at guys with 3 or fewer years of experience (except immediate contributors like Taylor and Cooley) is not really a tangible argument. I guess I was thinking more of impact type players. I think Rocky is an above average, he is no longer a fit. Fred Davis does not start, in my opinion that does not make him above average. Golston, Davis, Kelly, Horton are not above average players (imo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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