Duncan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Well, one of these special interests benefits a very small number of people.The union benefits a lot more. I won't argue that unions don't have their problems, but when up against a guy with the influence and interests as Koch has, I side with the people. History bears that out. (And FTR.. I used to be a union man, IBEW, and while I was there I liked the security it offered me, I never could quite reconcile the inner politics that governed the top. (excluding Buddy Saterfield. Good man, he is. I understand he's with the international office now, and that I applaud.) Let's not forget why unions formed in the first place. To think that if unions disappeared that the people at the top of the industrial chain won't exploit them is simpy ignorant of not only history, but current working conditions in places other than the US, IMO. ~Bang Are you serious with this post? These aren't private sector unions combating corporate malfeasance. These union leaches are greedy scumbags that whine about paying a measly 5% into their pension plans. They are fighting against the taxpayers. You know, the guy that isn’t in a union and busts his ass and pays taxes to fund their salaries and amazing pensions, health care and job security. Public sector unions are a disgrace. It’s a money-laundering scheme for the Democratic party – a long-standing protection racket for campaign cash that needs to be stopped. Someone that wants to work for the state that might not be a liberal is forced by law to pay substantial union dues that are funneled to the Democratic party for attack ads against Republicans. The real reasons liberals are whining about this is that the Republicans want to give state workers the option not to join the union. Oh the horror! Giving someone the option of not joining a union. Fly in the professional leftist protestors and out come the Hitler signs of course. You side with the people? I guess non-union workers that actually pay these folks salaries are all corporate fat cats. I guess the majority of Wisconsin voters are corporate millionaires. The shallow thinking from the left is really sad. Elections have consequences. Obama famously said “I won” when meeting with Republicans. Of course they didn’t flee the country like little cowards to prevent a vote on the “shovel ready” stimulus farce that was nothing more than a political payout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 These union leaches are greedy scumbags that whine about paying a measly 5% into their pension plans. In case you're wondering, this is where I stopped reading, because anyone who thinks that this gross exaggerated generalization is even remotely true is simply out of touch with reality, and probably needs therapy. But, you probably weren't wondering....so feel free to ignore the rest of what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 .Can't win the votes, defund the other party. I guess the GOP got tired of trying to win elections on proposing better ideas. I hate to bust your bubble,but they did win the election,epically .....I know ya'll prefer to ignore that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 In case you're wondering, this is where I stopped reading, because anyone who thinks that this gross exaggerated generalization is even remotely true is simply out of touch with reality, and probably needs therapy. But, you probably weren't wondering....so feel free to ignore the rest of what I said. Pot, meet kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 In case you're wondering, this is where I stopped reading, because anyone who thinks that this gross exaggerated generalization is even remotely true is simply out of touch with reality, and probably needs therapy. But, you probably weren't wondering....so feel free to ignore the rest of what I said. The governor ran on a platform of 5% pension and 12% healthcare contributions for public sector employees and he won. The unions aggressively campaigned against his plan and rallied the troops against it, passing out flyers. Of course you are not able to debate the rest of my post so you make some snide cowardly uninformed comment. Typical leftist clown. I guess you are in favor of forcing employees into a union. Sounds about right for a leftist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 If the Governor and his aides are fooled by a prank caller into thinking they are talking to one of Koch brothers, it shows exactly how little he know Koch. I really did not hear anything the governor said that he hasn't said on tv. So now there should not be any dismissing of what Soros actually does on a much larger scale by the left, right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Since the unions are supposedly "ok" with everything except the collective bargaining rights piece, would they agree to not bargain over things like the $750k viagra clause that they got in their last contract too? I believe thats why the worry over allowing the collective bargaining piece in is present. Also, that the average bargaining period over all the stuff like that is around 15 months. I think they could come to some form of compromise if those items were agreed upon. Otherwise, they wont be much better off because they simply will bargain for minutiae to offset the increase in benefit costs (IMHO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 It would be nice if you were to link to what you are referring to. What they got a drug plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm sure that would be an issue up for discussion. If I were a union negotiator that would be an easy one. While it's true that older professors sometimes lack the ability to teach their young pupils... tools like Viagra shouldn't be necessary if the teacher is dedicated enough. (Okay, that was a terrible and completely inappropriate joke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I hate to bust your bubble,but they did win the election,epically .....I know ya'll prefer to ignore that By pretending to be small government fiscal conservatives and right after they proved to be the same big government hypocrites that are there to take care of their friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 It would be nice if you were to link to what you are referring to.What they got a drug plan? sure, though I simply have seen it in a ton of articles, but here is one of hundreds of references (maybe you could try this cool thingy called google next time? LOL) http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/100384954.html so anyway, I can see why the collective bargaining is an issue for the Governor in terms of spending for the long term, due to things like this. I was just wondering if maybe some form of compromise over removing the ability to quibble over silly things like this might convince the governor to bend a little on his proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 If the Governor and his aides are fooled by a prank caller into thinking they are talking to one of Koch brothers, it shows exactly how little he know Koch. It looks like the phone call lasted 20 minutes. It seems to me that a State governor in the midst of a huge bugdetary standoff would be really really busy. Yet Walker had the time to chit chat for 20 minutes with some guy he barely knew? Do you think you or I or any other non-billionaire schmo could pick up the phone and shoot the **** with our governor for 20 minutes? This shows, literally, that money talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 This isn't about breaking the unions altogether, but it is most certainly about diminishing their control over local and state budgets. I'm proud that Scott Walker is taking this stand. I am 100% supportive. And, if someone can identify some oppressed government employees who will suddenly be forced by politicians to work 12-hour days because they have less collective bargaining power, please post it here. This isn't about oppressed employees. It's about priveledged employees whose Union leaders are part of a corrupt campaign finance system, paying direct kickbacks to politicians, resulting in long term committments that our taxpayers can't and shouldn't have to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 By pretending to be small government fiscal conservatives and right after they proved to be the same big government hypocrites that are there to take care of their friends Yeah because liberals never pretend to be conservative, pro growth and patriotic when campaigning then do a 180 degree turn after being elected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Yeah because liberals never pretend to be conservative, pro growth and patriotic when campaigning then do a 180 degree turn after being elected Sure, but this isn't about them. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Sure, but this isn't about them.~Bang True because this guy is doing what he said he would. But it appears dems would be okay with status quo and just let the newbies be fired to take care of the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Looks like some folks in Wisconsin aren't happy with the governor's comments: "Madison Police Chief Noble Wray said he wants some answers from Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker. "This comes after a prank phone call was released online on Wednesday, during which the caller, posing as conservative businessman and Walker supporter David Koch, asked Walker if he had thought about the possibility of planting people in the crowd to cause trouble during peaceful protests at the state Capitol during the past two weeks." http://www.channel3000.com/news/26979885/detail.html Walker may also be investigated for ethics violations, as he should be, especially since he had considered infiltrating the protesters with agent provocateurs . . . against the citizens of his own state -- average working men and women. And this was after he had talked about readying the National Guard after demonstrations arose at the capitol. But the response from his supporters are amazing, though never surprising. What do we have? Posts about freaking Viagra, of all things. Anyone who still thinks this is about the state budget isn't paying attention at all to events in that state. After all, Walker added tens of millions to the state finances through tax cuts, and the public employees have already said they will agree to some of the Republican demands . . . but that still isn't enough. Here's the bizarre thing: Republicans ran on "job creation," and yet, across the country, they are trying to fire thousands of public sector employees. I hope the people of Wisconsin throw Walker out in a recall and actually elect someone who cares about their state. ---------- Post added February-25th-2011 at 12:48 AM ---------- True because this guy is doing what he said he would. But it appears dems would be okay with status quo and just let the newbies be fired to take care of the budget. I have heard that claim, but when did Walker ever say he would try to strip public workers of much of their collective bargaining rights? Can you show me any articles from before his election which demonstrates this? ---------- Post added February-25th-2011 at 12:50 AM ---------- sure, though I simply have seen it in a ton of articles, but here is one of hundreds of references (maybe you could try this cool thingy called google next time? LOL)http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/100384954.html so anyway, I can see why the collective bargaining is an issue for the Governor in terms of spending for the long term, due to things like this. I was just wondering if maybe some form of compromise over removing the ability to quibble over silly things like this might convince the governor to bend a little on his proposals. As a note, SS, you and I have talked about right-to-work states -- I don't think you realize that some of these states bar some workers from collectively organizing, period. It appears that right-to-work does not mean right-to-form-a-union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 This isn't about breaking the unions altogether, but it is most certainly about diminishing their control over local and state budgets. I'm proud that Scott Walker is taking this stand. I am 100% supportive. Walker is absolutely trying to break the unions. His budget repair bill would strip the unions of the ability to negotiate to anything, other than salary increases that are capped at CPI. Who in the world would pay a union that has such minimal bargaining power? No one, and that's the point. Actually, he's not trying to break all unions, just the government employee unions that opposed Walker and his fellow Republicans. Perhaps that explains why the bill exempts the unions that supported Walker. This isn't about oppressed employees. It's about priveledged employees whose Union leaders are part of a corrupt campaign finance system, paying direct kickbacks to politicians, resulting in long term committments that our taxpayers can't and shouldn't have to support. Oh, so you have a problem with unions because they engage in lobbying. Do you have a problem with defense contractors who engage in lobbying efforts that result in unsustainable defense spending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 As a note, SS, you and I have talked about right-to-work states -- I don't think you realize that some of these states bar some workers from collectively organizing, period. It appears that right-to-work does not mean right-to-form-a-union. what states dont allow any collective bargaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So the bottom line is liberals do not care that the majority of tax payers in Wisconsin want their state's deficit balanced and for union types to have a fair wage comparable to the private sector, because their Cadillac healthcare plans and other perks like Viagra for performance outside the clasroom out of the pockets of struggling taxpayers is their Govt given right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Walker is absolutely trying to break the unions. His budget repair bill would strip the unions of the ability to negotiate to anything, other than salary increases that are capped at CPI. Who in the world would pay a union that has such minimal bargaining power? No one, and that's the point.Actually, he's not trying to break all unions, just the government employee unions that opposed Walker and his fellow Republicans. Perhaps that explains why the bill exempts the unions that supported Walker. Oh, so you have a problem with unions because they engage in lobbying. Do you have a problem with defense contractors who engage in lobbying efforts that result in unsustainable defense spending? I have a problem with Boeing getting 1 billion dollars to build a virtual fence that was 1/2 done and severely over budget. Yes. I have a problem with Unions that will not settle for Aetna or 5% towards your own retirement. I have a problme with the Governor dismantling the Union after they agreed to the terms minus One piece. (Bargaining shouldn't have been brought up if its really a fire sale on the Union). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So the bottom line is liberals do not care that the majority of tax payers in Wisconsin want their state's deficit balanced and for union types to have a fair wage comparable to the private sector, because their Cadillac healthcare plans and other perks like Viagra for performance outside the clasroom out of the pockets of struggling taxpayers is their Govt given right. Well give everyone universal helathcare and that solves one problem And you keep going on about Viagra and yet post no link so I wonder what your hang up is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 So the bottom line is liberals do not care that the majority of tax payers in Wisconsin want their state's deficit balanced and for union types to have a fair wage comparable to the private sector, because their Cadillac healthcare plans and other perks like Viagra for performance outside the clasroom out of the pockets of struggling taxpayers is their Govt given right. You are incorrect, because private sector union members make 8% LESS than their non-union counterparts. I had posted a long a while ago that showed this detail. Also, the unions have already agreed to the financial concessions, so it is obvious that this has NOTHING to do with finances. And if it did, then why did Walker add millions to the state finances in the form of tax breaks? I doubt, though, if you have any interest in any of this. ---------- Post added February-26th-2011 at 04:15 AM ---------- what states dont allow any collective bargaining? http://edudemic.com/2011/02/proof-that-having-no-collective-bargaining-for-teachers-hurts-students/ I noticed your state, NC, is in there. I just looked at this link, and NC is rated 49th in SAT scores. Maybe you guys need to rethink your efforts, eh? http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/states/USCHARTsat.html In fact, all of the states that are considered to be non-CB are at the bottom of SAT score ratings. ---------- Post added February-26th-2011 at 04:31 AM ---------- BTW, I wanted to add this thought: Can you imagine if a Democrat had been caught talking to George Soros about inserting fake demonstrators into a tea party rally with the purpose of causing a ruckus? Can you imagine if this same Democrat had talked with the National Guard ahead of these protests? But, since it is Walker doing this against "union thugs" (you know, all of this women teachers) then it is OK. At least some of us, though, do know Walker's true colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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