Bat~man Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Instead of comparing the number of picks, I think the number of dropped picks would be more telling. He would be a probowler if his stone hands werent on display every other week. +1 All the talk of comparing how many he has versus other corners doesn't show as much as if you could count ALL of his dropped INTs over his career. Then count ALL of them that would have more than likely WON us that game. To me, you have to make THAT play at THAT time in the game to be a top corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Sassy Molassy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 +1 All the talk of comparing how many he has versus other corners doesn't show as much as if you could count ALL of his dropped INTs over his career. Then count ALL of them that would have more than likely WON us that game. To me, you have to make THAT play at THAT time in the game to be a top corner. Very true, when you're in position to make that game changing play and you can't, it's going to hurt your value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 +1 All the talk of comparing how many he has versus other corners doesn't show as much as if you could count ALL of his dropped INTs over his career. Then count ALL of them that would have more than likely WON us that game. To me, you have to make THAT play at THAT time in the game to be a top corner. Completely agree with you and Stophovr6. If I were Bruce Allen I'd have the team go and make a movie of all of Roger's dropped INT's and all of the times he's been embarrassed by WR's. I'm sure you could come up with a 10 minute video of this. I'd call him in the office and show it to him and ask him what he wants in a contract extension and if it were unreasonable I'd tell him to test the market. If I thought we were going to lose him I'd probably send this out to the 31 other teams out there hoping to kill his value and send his agent a final offer. If another team over spends for Rogers then so be it but at that point I'd be hanging back letting him make a move. I'd probably think that my offer would be fair and he'd sign it eventually. Of course if he moved to another team for less money or more money I'd post that video as a tribute to Rogers for all the fans to see making the loss more tolerable for everyone. It would be a dick move to do but would help with the change and keep the control in our court with him. If a player is unreasonable because his ego and mouth can't cash the checks he writes and thinks that because we are the Skins they have the upper hand on us then F them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 LOS dropped INT's like Gano missed key field goals this year. They would have helped this team win more games. If I was Allen, I would structure a contract for top money but make the accelerators contingent on INT's, games played and Pro Bowl participation. Guarantee you, he'd never make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 If he's looking for anything above $20m, i would tell him to hit the road....I don't hate Carlos, but fact is that he's not a playmaker/game changer, so he shouldn't be compensated as such. Given Winfield's contract, I think the standard Redskins contract (i.e., $35M for 7 years and $13M in guaranteed money) sounds about right. Winfield might be better than Rogers, but he's also 4 years older and that deal was negotiated 2 years ago. It is going to be hard to get a decent CB for less than $5M per year and elite one will cost a lot more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2011/01/carlos_rogers_is_kind_of_hung.html#moreSo Rogers wants Dunta Robinson money despite not being regarded as being anywhere near as good as Dunta? Yea, he is a good cover corner and has shown flaws, especially to the double move, but he has dropped so many game changing interceptions that wanting top tier money is a ridiculous proposition. I would argue that Rogers is twice the corner Dunta is. Robinson was a product of Atlanta being desperate for CB help in a weak CB FA class. There is a reason why Houston, possibly the worst secondary in the league, let their "top" corner walk. He isn't any good. I'm guessing I'm one of the few fans that actually appreciates the "It is about the money" approach Carlos is taking. The whole, "We want to build a contender" thing would sound much better but for 90% of the players in the league that is a load of bull. I would much rather have a guy tell me the truth than try to convince me he is something he is not. In my opinion resigning Rogers should be our top in house priority in FA this season after Jamaal Brown. If it weren't for the draft pick we gave up for Brown I would say he's top period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skin23 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 His quotes really show his inflated self image, not too far off but enough to notice a disconnect between his perception and reality. The INT thing is a big deal Carlos, it takes you down a notch from elite to decent. If it was up to me I'd thank him for his time here and let him him walk. I like Carlos and always defended him (he's great at tackling/run support, and been our best cover guy for the past couple years) but he's going to be 30 at the start of this season, can't catch INT's, and get's beat for big plays often enough. Some other team can overspend and I won't mind seeing Barnes/Nnamdi across from Hall. +10000000000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Edds Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I would argue that Rogers is twice the corner Dunta is. Robinson was a product of Atlanta being desperate for CB help in a weak CB FA class. There is a reason why Houston, possibly the worst secondary in the league, let their "top" corner walk. He isn't any good.I'm guessing I'm one of the few fans that actually appreciates the "It is about the money" approach Carlos is taking. The whole, "We want to build a contender" thing would sound much better but for 90% of the players in the league that is a load of bull. I would much rather have a guy tell me the truth than try to convince me he is something he is not. In my opinion resigning Rogers should be our top in house priority in FA this season after Jamaal Brown. If it weren't for the draft pick we gave up for Brown I would say he's top period. I agree with this (for the most part) and want him back ... mainly for the sake of not having to find another CB through FA'cy or the draft. but at the same time, i am getting tired of his constant whining about what everyone else makes. I think if he had a more accountable attitude (at least what he displays in public) we might be able to get behind him on this. How many pro-bowls has Los made? none that I know of, that says a lot right there. I think Bruce will offer him a fair deal (with incentives) ... Los will decline, and will test the FA waters. Then we will see if it is really about the money. B/c I would not bet against him leaving to go somewhere else for less money b/c he feels "disrespected" by the Redskins. He has a major inferior complex about his own self worth ... and to be honest, he kind of wreaks of the "old regime". I like him as a player ... and it;s not about arguing stats by themselves ... as others have said, how many "dropped INT's" has he had? A lot more of those ... than games where he was never "thrown at" or given the chance to make a play. Sorry, but lobbed pass that floats in the air against Jax when there is nothing to lay for does not carry as much weight as last year during Pitt when we were still in the game and had an easy pick 6 that could have changed the complex of the game, or the Colts this year or numerous other games where we could have outright won the game if he pulls the INT in. It's not a black and white numbers thing, the tape doesn't lie ... and Los has NOT been clutch at all in that area. As frustrating as DHall is when he gambles and loses, he makes game changing plays and single-handedly won us 2 games this year (Dallass and Chi). It's unfortunate for Los that is his one weakness (other than biting on double moves, but who doesn't), but CB's have to catch the ball to make pro-bowls and get paid ... period. HAIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Seems to be more about getting paid than getting better. This. This kind of attitude has stopped with the new regime. We don't want players that want to get paid, we want players that want to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I would argue that Rogers is twice the corner Dunta is. Robinson was a product of Atlanta being desperate for CB help in a weak CB FA class. There is a reason why Houston, possibly the worst secondary in the league, let their "top" corner walk. He isn't any good.I'm guessing I'm one of the few fans that actually appreciates the "It is about the money" approach Carlos is taking. The whole, "We want to build a contender" thing would sound much better but for 90% of the players in the league that is a load of bull. I would much rather have a guy tell me the truth than try to convince me he is something he is not. In my opinion resigning Rogers should be our top in house priority in FA this season after Jamaal Brown. If it weren't for the draft pick we gave up for Brown I would say he's top period. I don't agree that 90% of the players aren't more about being a contender. It's not even an argument about wanting to get paid, everyone wants to get paid.. that much is obvious. He is going to get paid regardless, someone will pay the guy some money.. you have to have more passion for the game and being great than you do about making the most money. If you are that passionate then it will reflect in your preparation and on the field and the end result will be "getting paid". If the guy performed like he should have and would have held on to at least HALF of the numerous dropped INTs, then I don't think I would have a problem with how he's doing it. I compare to a chubby girl dressing like a stripper because she refuses to think she is any other than "smoking hot"... Or the "average" looking lady who thinks she is Halle Berry and gets pissed because not every guy is hitting on her. At some point, you have to look at what YOU are and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'm tired of Rogers personally and hope we go in a different direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Given Winfield's contract, I think the standard Redskins contract (i.e., $35M for 7 years and $13M in guaranteed money) sounds about right. Winfield might be better than Rogers, but he's also 4 years older and that deal was negotiated 2 years ago. It is going to be hard to get a decent CB for less than $5M per year and elite one will cost a lot more than that. Then let him walk. I'm not adverse to letting players go anymore. It used to worry me how we would replace certain guys, but Carlos is part of the old regime of me first, money grubbing players. I want team first, you get paid what you are worth players. If we offere him a contract and he rejects it, "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." There is a younger, hungrier player out there wanting your roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Then let him walk. I'm not adverse to letting players go anymore. It used to worry me how we would replace certain guys, but Carlos is part of the old regime of me first, money grubbing players. I want team first, you get paid what you are worth players. If we offere him a contract and he rejects it, "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." There is a younger, hungrier player out there wanting your roster spot. You know, it's funny. I followed D.Hall since college since I'm a VT fan. I always thought this topic would be discussed about him, but instead.. it's actually been the opposite. I agree, give him a fair offer, don't try to horribly lowball him, make it fair. If he rejects it, say your thanks and wish him luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Then let him walk. I'm not adverse to letting players go anymore. It used to worry me how we would replace certain guys, but Carlos is part of the old regime of me first, money grubbing players. I want team first, you get paid what you are worth players. If we offere him a contract and he rejects it, "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." There is a younger, hungrier player out there wanting your roster spot. And that "younger, hungrier" player will either (1) be inferior to CR or (2) want to be paid as much money as possible. I don't see the reason to get pissed at Rogers for wanting to make as much money as possible; pretty much everyone I know wants to do so. ---------- Post added January-14th-2011 at 02:02 PM ---------- I agree, give him a fair offer, don't try to horribly lowball him, make it fair. If he rejects it, say your thanks and wish him luck. Given what corners are making these days and Rogers' skills, I would think that a 7 year $35M, $13M guaranteed deal would be on the "lowball" side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 He also fails to mention his health issues in the past few years... I would bet that he has started quite a few less games then those guys. That is a huge concern! I think he learned too well how to work the system from Shawn Springs. Sit out the boring games with a hard to prove hamstring injury and then show up for the biig games. Los is a good cover corner but lack of hands is a joke. I mean, football is your job!! I would be out there before and after practice catching extra balls. I'm sure our Mgmt will let him see what he can get and trump it slightly. At least that's what I'd do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Edds Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 And that "younger, hungrier" player will either (1) be inferior to CR or (2) want to be paid as much money as possible. I don't see the reason to get pissed at Rogers for wanting to make as much money as possible; pretty much everyone I know wants to do so.---------- Post added January-14th-2011 at 02:02 PM ---------- Given what corners are making these days and Rogers' skills, I would think that a 7 year $35M, $13M guaranteed deal would be on the "lowball" side. I'm not pissed about him wanting more money ... I think for the most part we are just tired of hearing him complain. How do you think that sounds coming from someone who was a millionaire at age 23? Do you think any readers/fans want to hear about "how unfair it is" to only have made $10 million dollars and not $20-$30 million dollars? give me a break. Especially in today's economic times, you have to be smart enough to keep your true feelings to yourself. I could care less how he really feels, but don't get on a soap box and shout out to the world about how you are not being "respected" or thinking you are more valuable than you are getting paid for. Everyone wants a raise. I know he was just answering a question in an interview, but this isn't the first article written about how he feels cheated ... whether it be the CBA termination that didn't allow him FA'cy a year earlier, whether it be the fans booing at home games ... or whether it be other players who are making more money than he is, when he feels he is on their level. As far as I'm concerned he already cashed in on his big payday when he was selected as a top 10 pick as a rookie, in which most folks expect that highly drafted of a player to reach a pro-bowl at some point, he's bordering 30 and is not as durable as he once was. Couple that with the fact that he can't catch a cold if it smacks him in the mouth. I don't see him reaching any pro-bowls any time soon, unless he finds "magic hands." I like the guy and think he is "solid" ... but he is not "elite" ... or even "great" for that matter. He does a good job, but he's only above average in most people's eyes. Big paydays are not what NFL players are entitled to just because they weren't busts and have contributed to a NFL team and happen to be due for FA'cy ... it's what they earn by making plays and changing the outcomes of games and helping your team win. Los has certainly contributed to our team, but considering we have sucked for quite a while ... I don't think throwing a bunch of cash at a 30 year old CB to just to avoid "filling a hole" is reason enough. I'll say it again, I want him back ... but at a fair price that doesn't hinder us from signing more talent elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 And that "younger, hungrier" player will either (1) be inferior to CR or (2) want to be paid as much money as possible. I don't see the reason to get pissed at Rogers for wanting to make as much money as possible; pretty much everyone I know wants to do so.---------- Post added January-14th-2011 at 02:02 PM ---------- Given what corners are making these days and Rogers' skills, I would think that a 7 year $35M, $13M guaranteed deal would be on the "lowball" side. Sometimes you have to let players go. I never said lowball the guy. If he wants to stay, they'll pay him what he's worth. Why have "two" of the highest paid cornerbacks in the NFL. Quite frankly neither one of CBs needs to be highly paid. But I'd rather have a young guy that wants to win a position and fits the defense, then a guy wanting to get paid. I'm tired of that attitude at Redskin Park and so is Shanallen. I don't disagree with Carlos or any other player wanting to make more money, but he'll have to do it in another uniform. And I'm not pissed with him. He wants to come back, fine. But with his stone hands, I'm ready to go in another direction. As far as being inferior, meh. Carlos isn't as good as he thinks he is or you think he is. You should be his agent. Atlanta's "other" starting CB, Grimes was found on the street. Signed as a free agent for peanuts. Not every free agent or draft pick will get 7 yrs, $35 million, $13 guaranteed. There ARE other alternatives. You sound like you are afraid we can't replace him. Every player is replaceable (unless your last name is Brady or P. Manning). Hell, I'm not even upset that Rocky McIntosh isn't coming back. He doesn't fit the 3-4. Carlos can't catch. This defense is predicated on creating turnovers. If he can't catch, what good does he do to the defense? Dude, don't be afraid to let players go. They aren't loyal to the teams like Darrell Green was. This is a new era of players and I just don't get attached to them like I used to. This is why I don't buy jerseys of current players. All but one of mine is old school players (I have 1 Cooley). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Rogers: "I always hear one thing that they can say, and it's always that interceptions. I don't hear none of the positive stuff, I don't hear what I'm doing vs. what any corner can do. A lot of people can focus on that. Do I think I have had a fair chance? No. I still hear it. I still hear the interceptions, so that still stands." Dude just doesn't get it. Sure he's an above average cover guy but he has 8 Int's in 6 seasons! I think we've all seen the ball bounce off his hands AT LEAST 20 times now with the ball right there in his hands, not even counting the difficult catches that we would be surprised when Sean Taylor would bring them down or Hall. As a corner he's good but he's a 1 trick pony. He's like the kicker who hits everything inside 40 but goes 0-10 from 40-49. He's like the 3rd down back who can get you a first down but he's useless near the goal line and has 0TD's on the season. When you need him most he's gonna fail. Playoff game on the line, we are winning, Rogers drops an int that's IN HIS HANDS, both of them! They score, we lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Carlos is an excellent player. I say player because he can shut down players on the outside but he is also our best nickel corner when it comes to playing the slot receiver. That is a huge asset because many corners can't cover the slot. He's big and physical as well. Honestly, I feel like interceptions are the ONLY thing Carlos really struggles with. I want him back but I'm afraid his asking price may end up being too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onedrop Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 what Carlos doesnt understand about his lack of INTs is that we dont care about the totals, yearly or career. what bothers EVERYONE is that he drops balls thrown where ONLY he could catch them...right into his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Carlos, learn something about proportions. In this case the total amount of interceptions you have caught divided by the total amount of interceptions you COULD HAVE caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truant Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Pretty funny stuff. There is an article that talks about how excited Haslett was about Rogers before the season and now... well, not so much. Rogers is an almost 30 cover corner. He already isn't the fastest guy in the world. He already misses time due to injuries. He obviously can't catch very well. If he wasn't a high pick the buzz around him would be much different. People would appreciate him more, but they'd recognize that he is just average and easily replaceable. Heck, (as noted earlier) Buchanon and Barnes seemed to improve the pass defense when Rogers missed time. Let him walk. He should start somewhere. Maybe we'll get a low comp pick back for him from the NFL. I'll be pleased when he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibbidoe Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'd offer to let him go 1-on-1 with a Jugs machine to determine the value of his next contract. Pretty sure "The Man with the Hands of Stone" would opt against it. ...does that make him Carlos Garvin? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 4 years, 20 million, or let him walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 As a corner he's good but he's a 1 trick pony. He's like the kicker who hits everything inside 40 but goes 0-10 from 40-49. He's like the 3rd down back who can get you a first down but he's useless near the goal line and has 0TD's on the season. When you need him most he's gonna fail. Playoff game on the line, we are winning, Rogers drops an int that's IN HIS HANDS, both of them! They score, we lose. You just described Shaun Suisham/Graham Gano and Ladell Betts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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