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DCSB: Carlos Rogers is kind of hung up on interceptions


Homercles82

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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2011/01/carlos_rogers_is_kind_of_hung.html#more

Arrington then said that Rogers actually did need to work on the interceptions thing.

"I never deny that," Rogers said. "I won't deny that. I do. I have to do that. But does that define every corner? That's what I'm looking at. Every corner you look at did not have five, six interceptions this year. I look at Antoine Winfield, one of the best corners, people look at him as one of the best corners. Check out his interceptions. I think he's been in the league about eight years, probably got about eight or nine interceptions. (Actually, it's 23 interceptions in 12 years -ed.) He got a lot of breakups, he tackles, he breaks up passes, he put a lot of receiver out of the game.

"I look at Dunta Robinson. He's been in the league a year longer than me; I've probably got more interceptions than him or we are tied, and Atlanta just paid him as one of their top corners. (Actually, Robinson has 14 in seven years, while Rogers has eight in six - ed.) Like I said, a lot of different organizations look at what they want to look at, and at a time like this when you negotiate, they'll probably point out the negatives to make it look like 'Oh, he ain't doing this,' but deep down inside they know that this is a good player and this is a good corner. Like I said, time will tell how this goes. And I don't know. I don't know. I don't know."

So Rogers wants Dunta Robinson money despite not being regarded as being anywhere near as good as Dunta?

Yea, he is a good cover corner and has shown flaws, especially to the double move, but he has dropped so many game changing interceptions that wanting top tier money is a ridiculous proposition.

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I'm a Carlos Rogers fan, but ...

Antoine Winfield has 23 picks in 12 seasons.

Dunta Robinson has 14 in seven seasons.

Rogers has eight picks in six seasons.

While he’s smart to set the bar lower and compare himself to players who aren’t among the league leaders in interceptions, they’re still good for two picks a season. Rogers isn’t.

For the record, Winfield signed a five-year, $36-million contract in 2009. Robinson six-year, $57-million contract in 2010. So that’s more likely why he’s made the comparison. He’s hoping for the paycheck, even if the numbers aren’t the same.

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I'm a Carlos Rogers fan, but ...

Antoine Winfield has 23 picks in 12 seasons.

Dunta Robinson has 14 in seven seasons.

Rogers has eight picks in six seasons.

While he’s smart to set the bar lower and compare himself to players who aren’t among the league leaders in interceptions, they’re still good for two picks a season. Rogers isn’t.

For the record, Winfield signed a five-year, $36-million contract in 2009. Robinson six-year, $57-million contract in 2010. So that’s more likely why he’s made the comparison. He’s hoping for the paycheck, even if the numbers aren’t the same.

If he's looking for anything above $20m, i would tell him to hit the road....I don't hate Carlos, but fact is that he's not a playmaker/game changer, so he shouldn't be compensated as such.

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Seems hes simply trying to lessen the significance of the lack of INTs by playing up his strengths, trying (incorrectly) to name other good CBs with low INTs. At least he's able to admit the INTs are a problem for him. I'd be fine with us re-signing Rogers, but only to a 4, 5 year deal max since he's already approaching 30, and it should be very incentive-laden where a significant chunk isn't seen unless certain INT numbers are met and/or Probowls too, because if Rogers expects Dunta-type money he needs to realize the team can sign someone like Joseph from the Bengals for the same price who can pull in INTs and is younger.

For a reasonable contract, and I don't expect anything but that from Allen, I'm fine with Rogers coming back. I'm just not sure if Rogers' version of reasonable actually will be reasonable.

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Let him hit the market and see what he is really worth. I think he will be surprised. Yes I think he is a good corner, but I do not think he is elite yet. Has the potential, but hes not quite there. It also seems like he has not smelled what the coach is cookin either. Seems to be more about getting paid than getting better.

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His quotes really show his inflated self image, not too far off but enough to notice a disconnect between his perception and reality. The INT thing is a big deal Carlos, it takes you down a notch from elite to decent.

If it was up to me I'd thank him for his time here and let him him walk. I like Carlos and always defended him (he's great at tackling/run support, and been our best cover guy for the past couple years) but he's going to be 30 at the start of this season, can't catch INT's, and get's beat for big plays often enough. Some other team can overspend and I won't mind seeing Barnes/Nnamdi across from Hall.

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Seems hes simply trying to lessen the significance of the lack of INTs by playing up his strengths, trying (incorrectly) to name other good CBs with low INTs. At least he's able to admit the INTs are a problem for him. I'd be fine with us re-signing Rogers, but only to a 4, 5 year deal max since he's already approaching 30

Personally, I don't want Carlos resigned at all.

I might be wrong but I just have this feeling that he's going to decline quickly.

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I think again we have had a coaching failure with Carlos.

Carlos is a very good cover corner. DeAngelo not such a good cover corner. What DeAngleo will do is try to give enough room to get the QB to commit and then break and jump the ball, that's how he gets his INT's. Sometimes though that backfires and he gets burned big.

Carlos being a very good cover guy, should use that skill and give just a tiny bit a room that the QB may think he can squeeze it in, then close the gap and go up and fight for the ball and win. As it is.. unless it's an errant throw.. Carlos doesn't get many shots in his direction. The game plan is almost always to ignore Carlos's side of the field and attack Hall or Buchanon or whoever else is in there.

Darrell Revis doesn't have any INT's either. For generally the same reason.

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Yea, I'm not big on Carlos anymore. Ever since this FA talk started he's had this "time to get paid" attitude and looks really self-centered. He also, like someone else pointed out, thinks he's better than he really is. Sure, he's a good (not great) cover corner, but that is absolutely all he is. He can't catch, dropped COUNTLESS game changing INTs and he's had some durability issues over his career.

I say he gets a mid-tier contract or we let him walk.

D. Hall is a playmaker, he definitely gets burned sometimes.. but you always know he is very much capable of making up for it with a pick or a pick 6... or like game 1 vs. Dallas, a fumble recovery for a TD. I think D. Hall has 2 defensive TDs this year.. something we have been really lacking.

When Carlos gets burned, there's absolutely nothing he can do to make up for it...

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See my problems with paying him top corner money is he can make the big play like we all know. Yea he's a good corner but when the game is on the line and the ball hits u right in the chest and u drop it and cost us the game u dont get top corner money. Sorry los! And im also sick of his attitude so i could care less if hes back next year.

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Someone else said it for me... it's a combo of things. It's the lack of interceptions, it's having an injury riddled year where it felt like he missed practically the last third of the season (and where some said he was milking it), and the fact that he was the top corner on the worst defense in the league. It may not be totally his fault, but he was a part of making it the worst he was on the field and gave up quite a few plays... in fact, you could argue that the D got measurably better once Buchannon and Barnes filled in for him.

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While being good in coverage is great, CBs get paid to catch. Much like a WR, though the expectation isn't as high, however, when you have the chance to make a game changing catch you damn sure better do it. Carlos needs to quit making excuses, imagine a WR saying, "Just because I can't catch doesn't mean I shouldn't be paid like a guy like Andre Johnson. I run good routes, get off my jams well, rarely if ever have any false starts or mental breakdowns and I tend to draw coverage from the opposition's top corners. Sure I may drop more than I should, but so what?"

Again, before anyone jumps on that saying that I can't compare a WR catching the ball to a CB, I know it's not exactly apples to apples, but CBs are paid to catch the ball, it's just that the percentage of balls they are expected to catch (when they have the chance) is lower than a WR's.

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Rogers is right. You can't simply use INT's as the sole measuring stick for corners. Viewed as the best corner in the league Nnamdi Asomugha only has 11 INT's in 8 seasons and this year didn't show on the stat sheet with any but that will not hurt him in FA because he is so talented. I don't have a problem with Roger's lack of INT's. What I have a problem with is his coverages. Teams don't treat him as an elite corner and play off of him, they challenge him all the time. That tells me that other teams don't view him as being that good. Unless you can shut down your side of the field and get teams to game plan away from your side then you simply don't deserve top player money. If he expects a windfall in the neighborhood of the 10 best corners in the league then we can't pay him. He is not one of the top 10 corners in the game today even if he thinks he is. If he wants a decent payday that reflects his skills then I'd like to give it to him but it sounds by all accounts that it's going to be expensive to keep him and if we want to pass out top 10 corner money this year I say lets give it to the top corner in the league in Nnamdi Asomugha because if your going to spend you might as well get the very best.

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"Just because I can't catch doesn't mean I shouldn't be paid like a guy like Andre Johnson. I run good routes, get off my jams well, rarely if ever have any false starts or mental breakdowns and I tend to draw coverage from the opposition's top corners. Sure I may drop more than I should, but so what?"

Terrell Owens, who consistently made between 6-8 million a year in years he lead the league in dropped passes for wide receivers, would like to have a word with you.

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I think again we have had a coaching failure with Carlos.

Carlos is a very good cover corner. DeAngelo not such a good cover corner. What DeAngleo will do is try to give enough room to get the QB to commit and then break and jump the ball, that's how he gets his INT's. Sometimes though that backfires and he gets burned big.

Carlos being a very good cover guy, should use that skill and give just a tiny bit a room that the QB may think he can squeeze it in, then close the gap and go up and fight for the ball and win. As it is.. unless it's an errant throw.. Carlos doesn't get many shots in his direction. The game plan is almost always to ignore Carlos's side of the field and attack Hall or Buchanon or whoever else is in there.

Darrell Revis doesn't have any INT's either. For generally the same reason.

You must not be paying attention to the games if you think QBs always ignore Carlos's side of the field and attack the other players. Revis and Asomugha don't get interceptions because QBs just don't throw the ball their way. Those two corners probably have less than 30 pass attempts towards their side. They actually shut down the top WR.

I don't recall QBs staying away from Rogers.

Edit: Was looking for passes directed to CBs for this past season, but couldn't find it. I did, however, find it for 2009 season (arguably Rogers best season as a pro). In that season, Asomugha was targeted only 29 times, gave up 0 TDs and had 1 INT. Revis was targeted 72 times, gave up 1 TD and had 6 INTs. Rogers was targeted 105 times (3rd most in the NFL), gave up 4 TDs and had 2 INTs.

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Here's the problem with Carlos' view of his value: Carlos is gainfully employed in a performance based business. He is correct that one aspect of production does not define total production, but the aspect he is discounting (interceptions) actually is the greatest indicator for team defense (takeaways). He wants to be paid like a top production CB based on his total body of work @ the position, yet his actual stats are more in line with mid-level @ best. If He had the INT's that D-Hall has, yet he was known for getting burned like D-Hall does he would gladly trade that because he knows the INT's get the CB paid. Honestly, do you think any GM talked to Deion Sanders about his lack of tackling when they were negotiating his contracts. Even look at our first-hand knowledge of Champ Bailey. As good as he was, he was toasted regularly on double-moves, but his picks were superior. Picks get CB's paid!

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Rogers is right. You can't simply use INT's as the sole measuring stick for corners. Viewed as the best corner in the league Nnamdi Asomugha only has 11 INT's in 8 seasons and this year didn't show on the stat sheet with any but that will not hurt him in FA because he is so talented. I don't have a problem with Roger's lack of INT's. What I have a problem with is his coverages. Teams don't treat him as an elite corner and play off of him, they challenge him all the time. That tells me that other teams don't view him as being that good. Unless you can shut down your side of the field and get teams to game plan away from your side then you simply don't deserve top player money. If he expects a windfall in the neighborhood of the 10 best corners in the league then we can't pay him. He is not one of the top 10 corners in the game today even if he thinks he is. If he wants a decent payday that reflects his skills then I'd like to give it to him but it sounds by all accounts that it's going to be expensive to keep him and if we want to pass out top 10 corner money this year I say lets give it to the top corner in the league in Nnamdi Asomugha because if your going to spend you might as well get the very best.

Agreed. The difference between CBs like Nnamdi and Darelle and a guy like Carlos is that QBs don't go Nnamdi and Darelle's way because they've proven that if you try them, they are likely to get the pick. Whereas Carlos, I've seen a number of times where he would drop a pick and then turn around and give up a big play. When he's having a good day, sure he'll shut down some of the better guys in the game, but I don't think QBs have much of an issue with testing him because they know even if he stops the pass, you'll typically have another shot and making a play.

Terrell Owens, who consistently made between 6-8 million a year in years he lead the league in dropped passes for wide receivers, would like to have a word with you.

Yeah, TO is one of the exceptions. But he's also a big playmaker and the risk you take on him dropping a ball is worth the reward you get if/when he makes the catch. If you're a playmaker you'll typically get more chances than most guys. Carlos falls somewhere in the TO and Rod Gardner realm. Not the TO type playmaker, but solid nonetheless, he just can't catch for ****.

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You can't compare T.O. to Carlos, because T.O. is more than capable of making up for drops. Carlos can't make up for being burned.

If you can't count the area of his game (INTS) that says he isn't worth top tier money, then why can you only count the one that he says he is (Coverage)? I'm sorry, but there is more to being a top tier corner than covering a WR.. he is NOT a shutdown corner. He has missed some games this year and I honestly can not think of one play during the a game that he missed where I said to myself "Damn, if only Carlos was in there"

*edit*

I know the guy wants to get paid, I don't fault him for that. I just get the vibe that he is more concerned about getting paid than he is with winning. Your pay in the league is based on your performance, so you should put ALL your effort into that rather than into "vocalizing" your desire to get a big contract.

If you perform, the money will come.. if you don't and you STILL expect the money to come.. you have issues. CATCH the friggin INTs Carlos, do whatever it takes to stop getting hurt so much and you will get paid.

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