So, I Want to Learn How to Grill. (The Grilling 101 Thread)

[dfitzo53]

Not to speak for Zoony, but I tend to agree. You can do lots of things to "change" the flavor of a good steak, but it's kind of a waste and hard to get any better flavor for a steak than some kosher salt and a good dry aged piece of meat. Some would say it's even sacrilege to doctor up a really good steakand please no well dones!!

I'll actually disagree slightly. Some of the most tender, expensive cuts of meat have some of the least natural flavor. (I'm looking at you, Filet Mignon.) It's why more and more restaurants are starting to offer sauces, blue cheese crusts, balsamic reductions etc. to go with their filets. The flavor of super-lean meats just isn't deep enough to demand that they be eaten completely unadorned.

However, I definitely don't advocate cooking them past medium rare (or medium if you must) as that just further dries out an already lean piece of meat.

All of that said, the #1 rule of cooking is cook what tastes good to you. If you want your steak well done, I personally think you're crazy, but **** everyone else and cook your steak how you like it. Just try it with some red in the middle once and see if it doesn't open your eyes.

[Sticksboi05]

You flip burgers ONCE. You NEVER pat down on the patties. Season them before putting them on the grill. Put a small depression in the center of them. 15-20% fat is ideal. Get ground chuck.

And real men use charcoal or wood. Gas should only be used if cooking for dozens of people.

[dfitzo53]

Can't help but laugh at all the "real men" comments. Ok tough guys.

[Veretax]

don't use olive oil when cooking steak. It has the lowest smoke point of any of the oils and will burn and taste like ass. Use peanut oil. Use olive oil for salad dressings.

No go here, son is allergic to peanuts. I've been known to use a little canola oil inside. Outside I run a strip of A1 sauce down the middle of the steaks .

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Why all the hate towards well done steaks? :whoknows:

[Capt. Kaos]

Why all the hate towards well done steaks? :whoknows:

Seriously??

[dfitzo53]

Why all the hate towards well done steaks? :whoknows:

Speaking only for myself, the meat becomes tough, dry and gray. Simply pales (no pun intended) in comparison to a nice tender, juicy medium rare.

Unless you're braising, smoking or making something like a cheesesteak, but those are different stories.

[Hubbs]

Why all the hate towards well done steaks? :whoknows:

Yes, I demand an answer to this. Be thorough, I want to read full explanations as I snack on my styrofoam-flavored Pringles.

[ixcuincle]

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

So there's no such thing as a juicy well done steak?

[Capt. Kaos]

How about grilled pizza?

I started grilling our pizzas a year or so ago and we absolutely love them off the grill.

I usually go with a Mama Mary's pizza crust

a little EVOO with italian seasoning and garlic powder sprinkled on, slices of fresh mozzarella and tomatoes.

put the crust on the grill over direct heat for a couple minutes, flip browned side up and place the ingredients on top. Put the pizza on the grill and cook until cheese is melted

and crust is toasty but not burnt.

The one thing I have come to realize with grilling pizza is that less is more, getting complicated with the toppongs makes a simple process much more difficult

and the end results usually don't justify the extra work and worry.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:25 PM ----------

As for the well done steak:

This statement is coming from a guy that up until about 1.5 years ago only ate my steaks well done. Any pink whatsoever and it went back on the grill.

About a year and a half ago a friend talked me into trying a steak with a little pink, I did. Slowly over the next year or so I have worked my way to medium, why?

Taste, you can not possibly imagine the difference in flavor from a well done steak to a medium. The key, as we have stated, is letting the steak rest. I usually try for a 10 minutes rest.

Even when we eat out I let my steak rest, I will eat the veggies and tater before I even pick up the knife.

Here's a true story, from before I started cooking steaks to medium, that will drive my point home:

My daughter after trying a steak cooked to medium doneness came home and asked me why I always cook all the flavor out of our steaks.

The best thing to do is simply try a steak with some pink and taste the difference for yourself.

[Kosher Ham]

So there's no such thing as a juicy well done steak?

Not really. If you are eating a steak well done most likely you load it up with some disgusting sauce to add moisture to it. At that point you might as well be eating meatloaf, a burger, or the like.

Save your money and skip the steak.

[Hubbs]

Kaos, why'd you stop at medium? I like 'em damn near rare, and I've never gotten sick. Hell, I've hardly ever seen anyone I know go beyond medium rare (except for my family, who all enjoy following the Jim Zorn tradition of staying medium), and I've never had anybody tell me that they've gotten sick from a steak. There's just more flavor with more pink. (There's my contribution to the out of context thread for the day.)

Actually, that brings up another question. I'm sure I'll get a meat thermometer at some point, but aside from that and the finger method (which will take me a while to trust), how else can you tell if a steak at least qualifies as "rare" rather than dangerous? I've mostly just cut into a small portion to see the color inside and make a judgment call, but even then I feel like I have to err on the side of caution, which kills some flavor. Any suggestions?

[Kosher Ham]

^^^ Found this for you : If this is what you are looking for...

---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 12:34 AM ----------

http://www.askthemeatman.com/images/beefchart51201.gif

This is a good chart too for folks that are not sure.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

That blue rare looks disgusting, thanks for the info I will try and make a medium tomorrow.

[Kosher Ham]

That blue rare looks disgusting, thanks for the info I will try and make a medium tomorrow.

Most people call that black and blue. I like medium rare but medium is fine, simply because I like my food at least warm. Typically rare meat is cold.

Bur enjoy your medium. You are welcome.

[Hubbs]

Okay, I feel like my house must exist in some sort of magical high-pressure zone where cooking happens three times as fast. I just threw a New York Strip down on a skillet with some canola oil. Like I said earlier in the thread, my stove has a 1-10 setting and previous steaks had overcooked with only two minutes on each side at level 4 before 4-5 minutes in the over. Plus, the oil would smoke like hell, and canola's smoke point is something like 425 degrees. I can't imagine why my stove gets that hot at a mere 4, but that combined with the fact that most people here seem to be suggesting 2-3 minutes a side before another 10-15 minutes of slow cooking told me that something was wrong, so this time I only turned the stove up to a 3 and only did about a minute and a half on each side before throwing it into the over, pre-heated to 400 degrees. Three minutes later I took it out and it was medium. Overall, it was easily the best yet, but... um... what the hell is going on with the timing? Why are there repeated suggestions for twice as long with direct heat on each side and three times as long in an over pre-heated to the exact same temperature just to get it to a medium, when I got that doing what I did tonight? Is there a common explanation for something like this?

[Kosher Ham]

Who told you 10-15 minutes ? I must have missed that one.

If I was cooking it to medium, I would set the temp at around 325 using that time frame.

You can use the oven and simply use the broiler. But you have to like that crisp (not burnt) outside with the hot tender inside.

Set the temp inside the oven cook to your desired temp, cook your steak, and then set the broiler to crisp when it is almost where you like it. Rack level is key though.

It is not easier than what you are doing however. I throw my skillet in the oven heat it up and then put my steak on the stovetop. Get it crisp (about a minute each side at most), then in the oven for about 7-8 minutes for a medium at 375.

[Goaldeje]

Hubbs, there are a lot of variables here. I don't know what kin dof skillet you are using, how thick the cut of beef is, etc. I should have clarified that earlier. If you are starting with half an inch thick or thinner, it will take a lot less time than the larger cuts. As I and others have said, invest in a meat thermometer soon, it really will make everything a lot easier.

[SnyderShrugged]

Okay, I feel like my house must exist in some sort of magical high-pressure zone where cooking happens three times as fast. I just threw a New York Strip down on a skillet with some canola oil. Like I said earlier in the thread, my stove has a 1-10 setting and previous steaks had overcooked with only two minutes on each side at level 4 before 4-5 minutes in the over. Plus, the oil would smoke like hell, and canola's smoke point is something like 425 degrees. I can't imagine why my stove gets that hot at a mere 4, but that combined with the fact that most people here seem to be suggesting 2-3 minutes a side before another 10-15 minutes of slow cooking told me that something was wrong, so this time I only turned the stove up to a 3 and only did about a minute and a half on each side before throwing it into the over, pre-heated to 400 degrees. Three minutes later I took it out and it was medium. Overall, it was easily the best yet, but... um... what the hell is going on with the timing? Why are there repeated suggestions for twice as long with direct heat on each side and three times as long in an over pre-heated to the exact same temperature just to get it to a medium, when I got that doing what I did tonight? Is there a common explanation for something like this?

I stand firm in my opinion that you should get out of the kitchen and out to the patio/deck and fire up some charcoal! Its more fun if nothing else!

[ixcuincle]

Seriously though seek advice from Raichlen

The guy is one of the experts in cooking and one of the best grillers out there. He has 2 PBS programs and has appeared on Iron Chef

True barbecue and grilling expert who's also written a ton of books, I highly recommend his work

[dfitzo53]

I stand firm in my opinion that you should get out of the kitchen and out to the patio/deck and fire up some charcoal! Its more fun if nothing else!

Some things demand a grill, but steak tastes pretty darned good out of a hot skillet.

Seriously though seek advice from Raichlen

The guy is one of the experts in cooking and one of the best grillers out there. He has 2 PBS programs and has appeared on Iron Chef

True barbecue and grilling expert who's also written a ton of books, I highly recommend his work

I have three of his books. The Barbecue Bible, Beer Can Chicken, and Indoor Grilling. All of them are very well written and very informative, and his attitude is very pro-newbie. He mixes in a little history and a little science with excellent explanations and ideas for modification. Kind of like Alton Brown but specific to grilling.

Hubbs, there are a lot of variables here. I don't know what kin dof skillet you are using, how thick the cut of beef is, etc. I should have clarified that earlier. If you are starting with half an inch thick or thinner, it will take a lot less time than the larger cuts. As I and others have said, invest in a meat thermometer soon, it really will make everything a lot easier.

The thickness of the steak could actually be the most important part, only because it's the one thing that can't be controlled at the last minute. Are you buying steaks that are around half an inch, an inch, or more?

Another thing you can try if you're having trouble with the skillet is to get a big roast and have some friends over. A standing rib roast is basically a bone-in prime rib, and Giant has them on sale for around 6 bucks a pound pretty often by me. I use the "turn the oven on super high, put the meat in for 10 minutes and then turn the oven off" method and it comes out perfect. Medium-rare to medium prime rib the whole way through for 6 bucks a pound.

Kaos, why'd you stop at medium? I like 'em damn near rare, and I've never gotten sick. Hell, I've hardly ever seen anyone I know go beyond medium rare (except for my family, who all enjoy following the Jim Zorn tradition of staying medium), and I've never had anybody tell me that they've gotten sick from a steak. There's just more flavor with more pink. (There's my contribution to the out of context thread for the day.)

Actually, that brings up another question. I'm sure I'll get a meat thermometer at some point, but aside from that and the finger method (which will take me a while to trust), how else can you tell if a steak at least qualifies as "rare" rather than dangerous? I've mostly just cut into a small portion to see the color inside and make a judgment call, but even then I feel like I have to err on the side of caution, which kills some flavor. Any suggestions?

Beef itself really isn't all that dangerous to begin with unless it's been mishandled. Even ground beef is safe to eat rare if you know that it was processed on a clean grinder. (In other words, I wouldn't eat ground beef from a supermarket rare, but I would from a butcher I trust. I even grind up a mix of sirloin and chuck in a food processor at home to make medium rare burger sometimes.) My mom's side of the family is from the Middle East and occasionally eats a traditional dish called kibbee, which is essentially raw ground beef. When my mom wants to make it she either grinds it at home or buys ground beef from a Middle Eastern market and tells them it's for kibbee. You could probably get the same thing from a kosher market/butcher.

I say all that to say that as long as you have handled the beef properly (don't go rubbing chicken all over it) it's safe to eat totally rare. (Hi steak tartare!)

In general, America has taken food doneness to the point of crazy. We cook the crap out of everything because we're afraid of things that aren't even there. The threat of trichinosis, which is what originally caused the scare about cooking pork all the way through, was way overblown to begin with. Pork is actually fine cooked to the rough equivalent of medium, where it's pink all the way through. If you cook pork gray all the way through, you destroy a lot of the flavor. Same with chicken that's cooked to point of being white and dry. The only reason people find white meat dry and stringy is that they cook the crap out of it instead of pulling it out when it's moist for fear of getting sick.

[/rant]

[Capt. Kaos]

Kaos, why'd you stop at medium? I like 'em damn near rare, and I've never gotten sick. Hell, I've hardly ever seen anyone I know go beyond medium rare (except for my family, who all enjoy following the Jim Zorn tradition of staying medium), and I've never had anybody tell me that they've gotten sick from a steak. There's just more flavor with more pink. (There's my contribution to the out of context thread for the day.)

Actually, that brings up another question. I'm sure I'll get a meat thermometer at some point, but aside from that and the finger method (which will take me a while to trust), how else can you tell if a steak at least qualifies as "rare" rather than dangerous? I've mostly just cut into a small portion to see the color inside and make a judgment call, but even then I feel like I have to err on the side of caution, which kills some flavor. Any suggestions?

The reason I stopped at medium, closer to medium rare according to the chart that was posted, is all mental. I've tried raw, while the taste is great, I can't get past the texture. To me it just gets a little to "chewy".

As far as doneness, the meat thermometer is your best bet. Use that while you are learning to trust the finger touch method and you'll be golden. I still use my thermometer for everyone's steaks but mine.

[SnyderShrugged]

How about grilled pizza?

I started grilling our pizzas a year or so ago and we absolutely love them off the grill.

I usually go with a Mama Mary's pizza crust

a little EVOO with italian seasoning and garlic powder sprinkled on, slices of fresh mozzarella and tomatoes.

put the crust on the grill over direct heat for a couple minutes, flip browned side up and place the ingredients on top. Put the pizza on the grill and cook until cheese is melted

and crust is toasty but not burnt.

The one thing I have come to realize with grilling pizza is that less is more, getting complicated with the toppongs makes a simple process much more difficult

and the end results usually don't justify the extra work and worry.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:25 PM ----------

As for the well done steak:

This statement is coming from a guy that up until about 1.5 years ago only ate my steaks well done. Any pink whatsoever and it went back on the grill.

About a year and a half ago a friend talked me into trying a steak with a little pink, I did. Slowly over the next year or so I have worked my way to medium, why?

Taste, you can not possibly imagine the difference in flavor from a well done steak to a medium. The key, as we have stated, is letting the steak rest. I usually try for a 10 minutes rest.

Even when we eat out I let my steak rest, I will eat the veggies and tater before I even pick up the knife.

Here's a true story, from before I started cooking steaks to medium, that will drive my point home:

My daughter after trying a steak cooked to medium doneness came home and asked me why I always cook all the flavor out of our steaks.

The best thing to do is simply try a steak with some pink and taste the difference for yourself.

Pizza on the grill will be my next experiment. Good advice here, thanks!

as to the doneness of beef. I have found a similar progression in my adult life moving from well done into more medium and pink center. I think my experience slaughtering cattle on a beef cattle farm put some rough imagery in my mind regarding blood and meat. I'm gradually growing out of it

[Kosher Ham]

dfitzo, Thanks for explaining the doneness and risks involved with meats. I meant to talk about it and completely forgot. haha.

My Mother-in-law cooks everything well done if left to her own. I rarely enjoy what she makes. Don't even get me started on her chef boyardee-ish pasta sauce.