A Realistic Look at the Roster in Terms of Rebuilding

[Chump Bailey]

Being realistic means accepting Heyer's plusses. He is huge and can fill in everywhere. If the Skins let him go, 25 teams in the NFL would snap him up in a heartbeat.

They can have him bro

IMO, he is entirely too lackadaisical out there. I understand your point. I just don't think he's worth a roster spot. I did at one time though.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well also remember that D. Hall's production as a PR/KR decreased as he was being used more on offense, similar to what happened to Hester. I think we could get maximum use out of Banks if we could continue to use him in his current role.

Actually, Hall started more than 2 games at WR only once (6 games in 2004) and that was the same year that he had his career-high in return yardage. He never had more than 42 touches on offense in any season during his career. I just believe that, more than platooning him at WR, kick returners are generally great for just a couple years and then they fade. Banks could be the exception, but I don't think you pencil him in as a long-term Redskin just because of a great first season. Obviously, you keep him here and let him continue to earn his spot...but I understand not including him in the players that you're "building" around. That's all.

[fdarugar]

IMO Chris Wilson has shown nothing this year...IMO he plays the outside so why would he start inside...IMO that makes no sense...IMO IMO IMO.

[TimmySmith]

Everyone here who wishes to put so much focus on Banks should examine his season a little more closely. On his returns, he has 1 great game, and 2 good ones. His return averages aren't even close to the top of the league. Can we get realistic here and move past Banks?

[TheLongshot]

This was a concern of mine sine early in the offseason. I like K. Moore, but it troubled me that we didn't have anyone on the roster that could challenge him since all of the other safetys were strong. Which made me believe that he was the starter by default. I agree with Reed, he's good on STs and is a solid back up SS (as a blitzer and in run support). But what drove alot of people crazy was seeing him in coverage, he's not a liability on coverage, he is down right crippling. When he's out in space, its like playing 11 on 10.

He's no worse than most SSs in the league, IMO. He's definitely an in-the-box SS, but I don't think his coverage ability is THAT bad, other than he's a step or two slow.

Heyer's gone and is not needed at all IMO. He's garbage. Capers will hopefully earn a spot next season and if not they're plenty of 2nd and 3rd tier OT's that will be available to backup Brown - if he's healthy.

I don't think guys like Heyer are nearly as common as you think. Most are worse. Fact is, guys who are better are probably starting in the NFL, or will be soon.

I would still like to get a true OLB out side of Orakpo, not sold on Rob Jackson as a starter just because of one game. If we can get a OLB and another MLB via FA or in the draft, we should be set.

It is going to be an interesting competition at OLB next year. I expect that Alexander, Jackson and someone else will likely be competing for the spot. Jackson made a good argument for himself to compete next year.

Well also remember that D. Hall's production as a PR/KR decreased as he was being used more on offense, similar to what happened to Hester. I think we could get maximum use out of Banks if we could continue to use him in his current role.

To be honest, I don't see Banks being used much more than an occasional role player on offense unless he drastically improves his route running. His size is always going to work against him in the offense.

[Chump Bailey]

I don't think guys like Heyer are nearly as common as you think. Most are worse. Fact is, guys who are better are probably starting in the NFL, or will be soon.

Hey, i'm done with the belief that he's a quality backup OT at this point or someone we cannot go without. We've been saying that for years now. "He'll get better etc. and so forth." I think we've seen enough. The protection and run blocking on his side yesterday was abysmal. I'd be surprised if he's back next season. He looks out of shape and lethargic.

[authentic]

Actually, Hall started more than 2 games at WR only once (6 games in 2004) and that was the same year that he had his career-high in return yardage. He never had more than 42 touches on offense in any season during his career. I just believe that, more than platooning him at WR, kick returners are generally great for just a couple years and then they fade. Banks could be the exception, but I don't think you pencil him in as a long-term Redskin just because of a great first season. Obviously, you keep him here and let him continue to earn his spot...but I understand not including him in the players that you're "building" around. That's all.

Ok, I give you that we shouldn't mark him as a "build around" player, given that returners are so volitile from year-to-year. But i think i mostly took exception to him being cited as a player of minimal value or not one of the key players towards the future. With someone of his talent and potential, you definately don't want to devalue his worth and what he can do for your team. And we've seen that at any point he can break one for a TD. When is the last time we've been able to say that about a returner since Bmitch?

[tml6157]

Lorenzo Alexander

Anthony Armstrong

Terrence Austin

Brandon Banks

Kevin Barnes

John Beck

H.B. Blades

Andre Brown

Jammal Brown

Anthony Bryant

Selvish Capers

Adam Carriker

Erik Cook

Chris Cooley

Fred Davis

James Davis

Reed Doughty

London Fletcher

Graham Gano

Kedric Golston

Rex Grossman

DeAngelo Hall

Macho Harris

Robery Henson

Chris Horton

Rob Jackson

Jeremy Jarmon

Malcolm Kelly

Laron Landry

Kory Lichtensteiger

WIll Montgomery

Kareem Moore

Brian Orakpo

Brian Paulsecu

Logan Paulsen

Perry Riley

Carlos Rogers

Nick Sundberg

Ryan Torain

Keiland Williams

Mike Williams

Trent Williams

Chris Wilson

Darrel Young

Thats who I see us taking into camp next year

[authentic]

He's no worse than most SSs in the league, IMO. He's definitely an in-the-box SS, but I don't think his coverage ability is THAT bad, other than he's a step or two slow.

We'll we've seen that a step or two too slow have resulted in alot of big plays this season. And point being he shouldn't be out in space at all. Not mad at him, its the coaches placing him in a compromising position. With that said, i think they will have to make a decision to cut Horton, keep Doughty as the back up SS, find a true starter @ FS and keep Moore as the back up FS.

[TheLongshot]

Hey, i'm done with the belief that he's a quality backup OT at this point or someone we cannot go without. We've been saying that for years now. "He'll get better etc. and so forth." I think we've seen enough. The protection and run blocking on his side yesterday was abysmal. I'd be surprised if he's back next season. He looks out of shape and lethargic.

I'm not saying that at all. He's a guy who's limited athletically who needs to play with good technique to be effective and he's not always consistant with that. He's pretty much proven he's not a starter in the NFL.

But, while you can always improve there, I don't think it is likely short of getting someone who can start. For example, BMW wasn't better there. Nor do I think that Hicks would be better there, considering what a mixed bag he was at guard. Brown certainly would be an upgrade if it turns out he can't be an every down starter anymore. But, I doubt he'd settle for that. As for Capers, he has only started at RT in his career, where Heyer can play LT. Heyer's experience also makes him a valuable commodity.

---------- Post added December-27th-2010 at 11:32 AM ----------

We'll we've seen that a step or two too slow have resulted in alot of big plays this season. And point being he shouldn't be out in space at all. Not mad at him, its the coaches placing him in a compromising position. With that said, i think they will have to make a decision to cut Horton, keep Doughty as the back up SS, find a true starter @ FS and keep Moore as the back up FS.

Well, first he had to fill in at FS early in the season. Second, I don't think he was exposed all that much when he was playing his natural position when Landry went down. Most of the complaints about Doughty was when he was playing FS.

Horton has training camp next year to prove he deserves to be on this roster. Given his struggles and all the injuries, it will be a tough road for him.

[Chump Bailey]

I'm not saying that at all. He's a guy who's limited athletically who needs to play with good technique to be effective and he's not always consistant with that. He's pretty much proven he's not a starter in the NFL.

But, while you can always improve there, I don't think it is likely short of getting someone who can start. For example, BMW wasn't better there. Nor do I think that Hicks would be better there, considering what a mixed bag he was at guard. Brown certainly would be an upgrade if it turns out he can't be an every down starter anymore. But, I doubt he'd settle for that. As for Capers, he has only started at RT in his career, where Heyer can play LT. Heyer's experience also makes him a valuable commodity.

For me personally, and this is something I've said for several years now, I think Heyer should be moved inside. He simply does not have the feet to be an NFL OT. We need to get a RT - someone capable and not merely a warm body to insert, which is Heyer. We likely cannot count on Brown going 17 games next season. We need to get someone better than Heyer and I think that is entirely doable.

[Bang]

Man, people like to beat up on Doughty, but I think he's a solid SS who is not the liability that you make him out to be. If it weren't for the fact that Landry is amazing that that position, we'd be fine there even with him.

The problem is with FS right now. The thing is, both options there right now (Moore and Harris) are pretty young, with Moore only just getting some playing time there this year and Harris last year. I would think that we'd draft there and have those two compete with a draft pick to see who can play.

I completely disagree. Doughty can't tackle, goes to his knees and gets okie-doked with regularity. I can't tell you the last time he put his hands on a pass, and it's usually because he's late getting to where he needs to be.

He would not start on 75% of the teams in the league, and in the rest I'm not so sure either.

~Bang

[IHOPSkins]

Fatal Flaws, Too Old, Too many injuries, too expensive for their worth on the field:

London Fletcher........

You pick Fletcher to start your Fatal Flaws list and then do not put one of his most valued assets

Leadership....what the Offense Lacks,,,,the Defense has

And its because of him...on AND off the field

And like Bang said...the guy produces...why cut the meat?

Seriously...Fatal Flaw?....the guy is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Don't go "Stalin Purging" my Boy

[chipwhich]

What fans are too attached to do it?

REBUILD PLEASE. I know many fans who would beg to rebuild. I might consider buying season tix if we rebuilt.

[TheLongshot]

I completely disagree. Doughty can't tackle, goes to his knees and gets okie-doked with regularity. I can't tell you the last time he put his hands on a pass, and it's usually because he's late getting to where he needs to be.

He would not start on 75% of the teams in the league, and in the rest I'm not so sure either.

You sure you aren't mixing him up with Kareem Moore? Because your description sounds more like him.

Also, "Doughty can't tackle" seems to fly in the face of you calling him a good special teams player, where good tackling is paramount.

[illone]

How can you say Banks has no value?

That is nuts!

[DieselPwr44]

The team should explore what kind of trade value DeAngelo Hall has and get his me-first,non tackling hiney out of here.

[moondog]

I agree with the majority of the critiques on the original post. I will say this, the couple times Philip Buchanon has had to serve as a spot starter, or even the majority of the year, he has looked damn good. I'm not saying we should go forward with him as anything more than a backup, but he's definitely been a good player for us this year and a guy we can count on to fill in if someone goes down. He's only looked bad in one game - against the Giants, but he's looked pretty good in all our other games, especially yesterday (minus getting trucked by Jennings one time).

One unpopular thing I have to say that goes along with the original post: Cooley is a great Redskin, someone almost all of us have loved both on and off the field since he got here. He is a productive tight end and is among the leaders at his position every year and has made a couple of pro-bowls. This is not simply because of his many drops this year, although that does have to be taken into consideration. Fact is, we have a lot of holes on this team, yet we have two starting caliber tight ends. We have proven this year we simply are not able to give them both as many opportunities to make plays as they need to help this team. If they were both receivers, great. But it just does not work out to have two starting tight ends (the Patriots have figured it out, we have not). My point is this, as a football team that needs to fill many holes, it makes the most sense to try and trade Cooley and promote Davis to be our starter. I would argue that Davis is the better player anyway - he is certainly a better pass-catcher and much more athletic after the catch and does not fumble as often as Cooley. Cooley may have a slight edge on him in blocking but simply put, imo Davis is better and younger and has a higher ceiling. I love Cooley and would hate to see him go, I would root for him wherever he went but the fact is it makes the most sense for us to trade him if we can get at least a 3-4th rounder for him.

[sempre_victrix]

I agree with some of what you've stated, but think you are way off for other players. Fletcher, Cooley, and Banks come to mind. Fletcher is the team leader. Cooley is among the best TEs in the NFL, and Banks is a return threat that we haven't had for almost as long as I can remember. We actually have teams punting out of bounds to avoid him. Do they think he's worthless?

---------- Post added December-27th-2010 at 12:29 PM ----------

Doughty is actually a good tackler. He is just a little slow to be a starting safety in the NFL. We are heavy at SS and empty at FS.

[Darkstarr]

I agree with some, but i also think you need leadership and stablity at times. IMO bring back the entire OL and add a stud gaurd (mankin) a year into the system and a healthier brown. So often you see the best olines have played together for a while. Lets just add a piece and let the other continue to mesh if there is no progress next year then get concerned. I really have seen this oline play better as the year has gone on. I know it sounds crazy but i got a good feeling about these guys. As some have pointed out, if we had a rb with speed on some of those holes the tail back would have gone the distance.

[KDawg]

Brandon Banks isn't someone you build around as a return man, so in that regard I agree with the OP.

That's where my agreeing with the OP on Banks ends, though. Banks is absolutely someone that needs to be on this team for a long time. You don't build around a kick returner, but you need a good one and he absolutely, 100% fits that bill.

Oh and suggesting London Fletcher is too old is crazy. I want a young roster. However, the exception I'll make is for London.

[Champskins]

Oh and suggesting London Fletcher is too old is crazy. I want a young roster. However, the exception I'll make is for London.

Yes Sir, London stays for sure. And after his tenure and he decides to hang it up, please make him a coach of some sort to teach the young bucs some tackling and field presence as well as overall attitude no matter what the situation

[Hubbs]

Not worth much toward the future, no real league value:

Brandon Banks

Um... what the hell are you smoking?

---------- Post added December-27th-2010 at 04:28 PM ----------

Banks is a tough call. I like him, but he really does not fit into any other category. You obviously cannot build around a return man, if the Skins run him in the wildcat more often it would increase value.

I agree that there is no reason to get rid of Banks. However, I understand the reservations that some have about him. No doubt, he's been explosive at times returning kicks. However, a kick returner isn't necessarily someone you can build around and/or rely on to continue producing. It's very possible that Banks will be this era's Brian Mitchell for us. It's also very possible that he'll be a bright star for a couple years and then disappear. Let's not forget another undersized guy who was probably more explosive than Banks...Dante Hall. That guy was unbelievable for a couple years and then he was out of the league. So, of course you ride Banks as long as you can...but I wouldn't necessarily count him as a building block during a rebuild.

Banks is good, but he is NOT Hester by 50 miles. Plus they did not build around him. They did put him on the field more, but Banks size appears to be preventing this.

Actually, Hall started more than 2 games at WR only once (6 games in 2004) and that was the same year that he had his career-high in return yardage. He never had more than 42 touches on offense in any season during his career. I just believe that, more than platooning him at WR, kick returners are generally great for just a couple years and then they fade. Banks could be the exception, but I don't think you pencil him in as a long-term Redskin just because of a great first season. Obviously, you keep him here and let him continue to earn his spot...but I understand not including him in the players that you're "building" around. That's all.

Where did anyone suggest that you "build around" a kick returner? You two seem to be making up a roster strategy in order to refute it.

[Mania]

For me personally, and this is something I've said for several years now, I think Heyer should be moved inside. He simply does not have the feet to be an NFL OT. We need to get a RT - someone capable and not merely a warm body to insert, which is Heyer. We likely cannot count on Brown going 17 games next season. We need to get someone better than Heyer and I think that is entirely doable.

Heyer had a good game against Tenessee playing guard, but that is an anomaly. He is way too big to play guard in this league.

---------- Post added December-27th-2010 at 04:55 PM ----------

Yes Sir, London stays for sure. And after his tenure and he decides to hang it up, please make him a coach of some sort to teach the young bucs some tackling and field presence as well as overall attitude no matter what the situation

I love london fletcher as well. He is an anomaly in a league of prima donna's. That beging said, would you take a 2nd round draft pick for Fletch. I'm not saying it would happen, but I'd seriously consider it. This is what happens when a team rebuilds.

[TimmySmith]

You pick Fletcher to start your Fatal Flaws list and then do not put one of his most valued assets

Leadership....what the Offense Lacks,,,,the Defense has

Once again, let's be realistic. London Fletcher is a great player, but do you really start a 36 year old over younger guy if you are looking to the future. On a SB caliber team, the man is money, here, he is a wasted asset.