Shanny's record didn't justify his hiring. Shanny & Bruce must explain the overhaul to Danny.

[thebluefood]

I mean...he hasn't even had a year yet. What do you people want? We've been constant losers for 20 years. Did you expect everything to improve after one season? Really?

See, this is why I can't hate Dan Synder like I used to. He's been running the team just like we would if we owned it.

[Oldfan]

I mean...he hasn't even had a year yet. What do you people want? We've been constant losers for 20 years. Did you expect everything to improve after one season? Really?

See, this is why I can't hate Dan Synder like I used to. He's been running the team just like we would if we owned it.

If I owned the team, retreads like Shanahan, Cowher and Gruden would not be considered for gainful employment.

I expected this year to make good progress toward a rebuild. I hoped we would trade our deadwood away for draft picks. Instead, we traded draft picks for other teams deadwood.

[tiger187126]

If I owned the team, retreads like Shanahan, Cowher and Gruden would not be considered for gainful employment.

I expected this year to make good progress toward a rebuild. I hoped we would trade our deadwood away for draft picks. Instead, we traded draft picks for other teams deadwood.

so what exactly is some young up and comer coordinator know about rebuilding a team?

i mean that scenario is nice when you have a team being held back by an old school coach, but when you've let the inmates run the asylum and then bring in someone with no experience or history then you get what we had last year.

think what you want, but inexperience is ill equipped to handle a situation like ours.

[mi6]

What overall? I don't see one... We still have a ton of players who are all talk, and sure don't know how to walk the walk!

[NewCliche21]

Yawn.

Another thinly-veiled "Shanahan can't do anything without Elway" thread.

[redskinss]

sounds good to me so all we have to do is draft the next elway and we'll have nothing to worry about

[redskins59]

If I owned the team, retreads like Shanahan, Cowher and Gruden would not be considered for gainful employment.

I expected this year to make good progress toward a rebuild. I hoped we would trade our deadwood away for draft picks. Instead, we traded draft picks for other teams deadwood.

Which means you would not have hired Bill Belichick.

[Rufus T Firefly]

so what exactly is some young up and comer coordinator know about rebuilding a team?

i mean that scenario is nice when you have a team being held back by an old school coach, but when you've let the inmates run the asylum and then bring in someone with no experience or history then you get what we had last year.

think what you want, but inexperience is ill equipped to handle a situation like ours .

Once again, Shallenhan couldn't figure out what should have been crystal clear to anyone with a lick of sense- that this bad, old team needed a rebuilding project. Even after they switched to a 3-4, making a rebuild evena MORE glaring need.

I fail to see any kind of defense for such gross incompetence with weak arguments like "maybe people who could have figured that much out wouldn't have done a good job of it".

[redskinss]

Which means you would not have hired Bill Belichick.

actually i tend to agree with him but what i think hes reffering to is coaches who had success in the past. its one of those things where you have to ask yourself why is he unemployed.

obviously theres always going to be some worth re-hiring but i would try to find young coaches like we did with gibbs the first time around

[tiger187126]

Once again, Shallenhan couldn't figure out what should have been crystal clear to anyone with a lick of sense- that this bad, old team needed a rebuilding project. Even after they switched to a 3-4, making a rebuild evena MORE glaring need.

I fail to see any kind of defense for such gross incompetence with weak arguments like "maybe people who could have figured that much out wouldn't have done a good job of it".

making a move for the future like switching defenses isn't some short sighted move like what you're talking about, and how many players with the 4-3 would you even have wanted to keep anyway?

it's not like our release list got a lot of calls from other nfl teams.

we turned over 20 something players in one of the worst offseasons for acquiring any kind of talent outside of the draft. might i remind you that this had nothing to do with either shanny or allen.

next year will be a free agent bonanza with plenty of talent available. enough talent to lets say, be competitive while rebuilding with a strong leader at the qb position.

so you lock up that guy, but you realized after some time that he wasn't interested in learning anything new and wanted to run philly east(-er) here and nothing else. so you put him on to the side for last few games to see what else you have at the position.

but i will ask again for all you morons who say "shanny sucks, we all knew better (most of you in hindsight) than he does! he's a moron for making a mistake! burn the witch!"

a) who is going to come here and fix this if not shanny and allen

if we do fire them, then who is going to be willing to come here

i'm still waiting for those responses but you just keep spinning your same "3-4 sucks, should have known better about x"

i know you want to pad your 3000+ post count rufus, but stop regurgitating what is in every thread on here. i want to hear real answers besides throwing your hands up in the air and saying these guys suck.

[Hitman21ST]

We were discussing Bruce and Mike and their qualifications. What does Kyle have to do with this?

You said you wanted a young, hungry coach with potential. Hence Kyle Shanahan.

[Annonymous Source]

If I owned the team, retreads like Shanahan, Cowher and Gruden would not be considered for gainful employment.

I expected this year to make good progress toward a rebuild. I hoped we would trade our deadwood away for draft picks. Instead, we traded draft picks for other teams deadwood.

Coaches that have that repuation are valuable to have in a franchise in rebuilding mode, particularly Shanahan because he has a reputation for being able to assess offensive talent very well. Combined that with the fact that he has been a coach who has consistently produced a winning franchise and he is exactly what we need to get moving back in the right direction. Hopefully after his five years here he will have created a new environment that will be much easier for a young hungry head coach to step into.

[Rufus T Firefly]

making a move for the future like switching defenses isn't some short sighted move like what you're talking about, and how many players with the 4-3 would you even have wanted to keep anyway?

it's not like our release list got a lot of calls from other nfl teams.

we turned over 20 something players in one of the worst offseasons for acquiring any kind of talent outside of the draft. might i remind you that this had nothing to do with either shanny or allen.

next year will be a free agent bonanza with plenty of talent available. enough talent to lets say, be competitive while rebuilding with a strong leader at the qb position.

so you lock up that guy, but you realized after some time that he wasn't interested in learning anything new and wanted to run philly east(-er) here and nothing else. so you put him on to the side for last few games to see what else you have at the position.

but i will ask again for all you morons who say "shanny sucks, we all knew better (most of you in hindsight) than he does! he's a moron for making a mistake! burn the witch!"

a) who is going to come here and fix this if not shanny and allen

if we do fire them, then who is going to be willing to come here

i'm still waiting for those responses but you just keep spinning your same "3-4 sucks, should have known better about x"

i know you want to pad your 3000+ post count rufus, but stop regurgitating what is in every thread on here. i want to hear real answers besides throwing your hands up in the air and saying these guys suck.

Wow. Quite the menagerie of Straw Men, bizarro insults and nonsense.

Anyone who takes over an old 4-12 team and believes in trading premium draft picks for old players so they can "compete while rebuilding" is too incompetent to run an NFL team. That's a stand alone argument, I don't need to name other potential GMs to make that easy argument.

[Special K]

Once again, Shallenhan couldn't figure out what should have been crystal clear to anyone with a lick of sense- that this bad, old team needed a rebuilding project. Even after they switched to a 3-4, making a rebuild evena MORE glaring need.

I fail to see any kind of defense for such gross incompetence with weak arguments like "maybe people who could have figured that much out wouldn't have done a good job of it".

So, our hands were very much tied in regards to the draft and FA and Shanahan readily admits that he attempted to essentially stopgap this year and attempt as much as possible to put together a winning team until we were in a better position in regards to the draft and FA...and people like you call this "gross incompetence."

Yes, the trade certainly now appears to have been a failure, and yes, it really sucks that we lost draft picks for what is essentially a 13 game QB lease who sucked it up for the most part. However, mistakes happen and I can't figure out this fickle, short-sighted fan base and what would make them happy.

The impatience of this fanbase really is sad. I think if everyone is just a LITTLE more patient, we'll see that in this upcomming offseason, we are going to make several moves aimed at actual rebuilding instead of simply plugging holes and trying to keep us competitive. I see us trying to nab some picks for players who might not "work with our system" going forward and being extremely active in FA. I don't know, I just really think people have a bit of patience and hold back on labeling Shanahan "grossly incompetent."

[Rufus T Firefly]

So, our hands were very much tied in regards to the draft and FA and Shanahan readily admits that he attempted to essentially stopgap this year and attempt as much as possible to put together a winning team until we were in a better position in regards to the draft and FA...and people like you call this "gross incompetence."

LOL. Yes, that's exactly what I call it.

Draft picks for a "stopgap while rebuilding"? Holy crap, what you people are defending.

And it's not my lack of patinece that's the problem, nor is it any other fans.

[tiger187126]

Wow. Quite the menagerie of Straw Men, bizarro insults and nonsense.

Anyone who takes over an old 4-12 team and believes in trading premium draft picks for old players so they can "compete while rebuilding" is too incompetent to run an NFL team. That's a stand alone argument, I don't need to name other potential GMs to make that easy argument.

again, you offer nothing that i haven't read every day on here. you're wasting my time.

i'm tired of "oh that's a strawman argument" it's not, i asked you questions.

questions you chose not to answer.

who would do a better job? who should we have hired?

somehow that's bizzaro in your mind?

sounds like valid questions to me. but since you don't have an answer and would rather lean on your hindsight it's too difficult for you to put any thought into so you just spew out old standbys.

we traded "premium" draft picks for 2 players brown and mcnabb.

brown is 29 and was a pro bowler for two years before an injury in a position of desperate need of this team. hint, hint, he's not old.

mcnabb looks like a bust, but you don't tank your team in the nfl.

no team dumps all their veterans and doesn't make any moves except in the draft. good teams use the draft to improve. bad teams try to use it to step up their level of competitiveness. no team depends on it for their sole production.

go check bellichecks drafting record, you need two picks in every round when you draft like him, and he's not far off the norm. the draft is a complete crapshoot and everyone knows that. or should. you're taking a kid who's never played at this level and throwing him to the fire.

go check atlanta. great story of rebuilding after the michael vick debauchle right?

so they were idiots for signing guys like michael turner and gonzalez to make themselves competitive because they should have done it through the draft right?

you're same old statements are the real strawman, you just pretend yours is made out of brick.

---------- Post added December-25th-2010 at 09:53 PM ----------

here's my issue rufus:

you ***** and moan about giving up PREMIUM draft picks and yet you feel

I'm sorry, but acting like 2nd round picks have any likelihood onto truning into Asamugha, Wilfork or Matthews is just kind of cuckoo talk. We could just as easily (maybe even MOrE realistically) talk about those picks ending up being Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly.

that sounds like you're admitting that the draft is anything but a sure thing, so why are you so torn up when shanny used draft picks on proven nfl guys as opposed to guys you feel are realistically going to do nothing for the team?

[P007]

So OP, who would you have hired?

To me Shanahan was the best man for the job, and evidently Snyder

thought the same thing.

Some of you have forgotten just how bad this franchise was!,

NO, we are not to total respectability, but damn, give the man a chance, Rome wasn't built

In a day.

Every head coach makes mistakes, if you don't believe that, go read some other teams message boards.

Did he handle every situation perfectly?

Not really, but he is human, and he handled them the way he felt was the best.

We as fans have the luxerey of hind site, the man making the decisions doesn't get afforded such entitlement.

I truly believe he is doing things that are in the best interest of the Redskins, as a team.

Why not hire a hungry coach, i.e. Russ Grim or Leslie Fraizer. Instead we go with Shanny, the OP hit the nail on the head. Shanny has done much in the last 10 years.

[Rufus T Firefly]

here's my issue rufus:

you ***** and moan about giving up PREMIUM draft picks and yet you feel

that sounds like you're admitting that the draft is anything but a sure thing, so why are you so torn up when shanny used draft picks on proven nfl guys as opposed to guys you feel are realistically going to do nothing for the team?

LMAO. Spend some more time scouring my post history. Maybe you'll come up with an argument that's not pure nonsense.

But I doubt it.

[tiger187126]

Why not hire a hungry coach, i.e. Russ Grim or Leslie Fraizer. Instead we go with Shanny, the OP hit the nail on the head. Shanny has done much in the last 10 years.

what does leslie fraizer or russ grim know about building a team? russ grim is and has been an offensive line coach for his entire career. the last time i checked hiring a guy who has never even coordinated to become your head coach ends badly.

who would our gm be?

people throw around "young, hungry coach" like they work all the time.

as i said before and will say again until it gets through:

young coaches work for underperforming teams who need a shot in the arm, but have a good structure.

they do jack **** for a team that is in the gutter in terms of talent and structure.

you think snyder is going to listen to leslie fraizer about personnel moves? and how is his team doing since he took over?

---------- Post added December-25th-2010 at 10:20 PM ----------

LMAO. Spend some more time scouring my post history. Maybe you'll come up with an argument that's not pure nonsense.

But I doubt it.

again, nothing.

you're worthless. you come in, write something that you read in another thread, and refuse to put any facts behind it.

i ask you simple questions and you refuse to answer them because you don't have hindsight on your side.

you're a joke of a poster on this site.

[1972FAN]

You know just what earned Shanny respect in Danny's eyes? 2 Superbowl wins more than a decade ago?

Here's Shanny's record before Danny became the Redskins owner:

1988 Los Angeles Raiders 7 9 0 .438

1989 Los Angeles Raiders 1 3 0 .250- Shanny fired

1995 Denver Broncos 8 8 0 .500

1996 Denver Broncos 13 3 0 .813 0 1 .000

1997 Denver Broncos 12 4 0 .750 4 0 1.000 SB Champions

1998 Denver Broncos 14 2 0 .875 3 0 1.000 SB Champions

Shanny's been living off those 2 Superbowls ever since but he really hasn't done much since then.

1999 Denver Broncos 6 10 0 .375

2000 Denver Broncos 11 5 0 .688 0 1 .000

2001 Denver Broncos 8 8 0 .500

2002 Denver Broncos 9 7 0 .563

2003 Denver Broncos 10 6 0 .625 0 1 .000

2004 Denver Broncos 10 6 0 .625 0 1 .000

2005 Denver Broncos 13 3 0 .813 1 1 .500

2006 Denver Broncos 9 7 0 .563

2007 Denver Broncos 7 9 0 .438

2008 Denver Broncos 8 8 0 .500 - Shanny fired after the season

2010 Wash. Redskins 5 9 0 .357

The moment Shanny was fired, Danny wanted him. The thing is, post Elway Shanny did little to justify his so called reputation. I remember those 2 playoff loses in 2003 and 2004 were blowoff losses to the Colts. The only really good season he had was 2005 when Broncos lost to the Steelers in the AFC Championship game.

Based on Shanny's own history, I don't not see him being successful here or anywhere really. If he's given the time, he will bring us up to mediocrity and will get fired for failing to meet Snyder's expectations. Shanny is way overrated and is living off past glories.

I would love Snyder to can Shanny and Spawn. That isn't happening, well I am 90% sure that isn't happening. This is Dan Snyder, so you never know. Danny should demand Haslett's firing as Haslett took a strength and made it a weakness.

Shanny and Bruce needs to discuss with Shanny exactly what needs to be done. Explain to him that the next couple of years are going to be losing seasons, which will look really bad when the 18 game schedule kicks in. This years 5-11 will be a 5-13 in 2 years. The team needs a complete overhaul and it will take 2-3 years to complete rebuild.

They need to assure him that the fiasco of 2010 will not happen again.

Once they do that, I fully expect Shanny to get fired when the Skins fail to make the playoffs in Year 4.

I've said I would love for Shanny to go as he's pissed me off. I am pissed off fan though, so you know I may not be 100% rational. I don't believe Shanny will be successful, well as far as taking this team to the playoffs. He will rebuild us to a point and get fired and then his replacement will be the one to have some success. 2016 Superbowl here we come!

I see you stated your GREAT dislike for Shanahan and how they have made the team worse, But you didn't state who we should hire? So I guess if Shanny does win and goes to the playoffs 2 years from now, you'll be rooting against him because he pissed you off and he's not the right coach according to you after only14 games. So whats your Pro football resume, player, front office, just curious?

[tiger187126]

I see you stated your GREAT dislike for Shanahan and how they have made the team worse, But you didn't state who we should hire? So I guess if Shanny does win and goes to the playoffs 2 years from now, you'll be rooting against him because he pissed you off and he's not the right coach according to you after only14 games. So whats your Pro football resume, just curious.

just give up. not one person on here who is on the "shanny sucks" train will give an example of who we should have gone after.

it's pointless to argue because they don't have anything to rebutt with. it's just "he got fired in oakland" and "look at the mcnabb thing, he's so dumb"

as soon as you turn the table and say ok captain hindsight you play gm, what should we do or who should we have hired, they get off topic and throw out words like strawman to try to skip over answering anything remotely logical.

[P007]

hasnt done much??? im not counting this season because anyone with half a brain knew what he was inheriting and knew he didnt have a chance. its re re's like this who just dont get it!!

10 seasons

2 years with a losing record

4 playoff teams

2 yrs where his team just missed out of playoffs

this with starting qb's named brian griese, jake plummer and rookie/2nd yr cutler. playing in the afc that has dominated from top to bottom for the past 15 years.

you call that nothing?? name 5 coaches who were better in that span. you probably thought zorn was the best thing since sliced bread didnt you?

The AFC West was also the weakest division in all of football during his glorious run. Oakland was old and they began their downslide, San Deigo was rebuilding, Kansas City was solid but nothing to write home about, and Seattle was flat out horrible. Of course this is during his 90's run. When the division became a 4 team division the only team worth a damn was San Deigo, Kansas City was a good offensive team with Vermeil as coach but their defense was horrible. Once again a weak division,

[Rufus T Firefly]

again, nothing.

you're worthless. you come in, write something that you read in another thread, and refuse to put any facts behind it.

i ask you simple questions and you refuse to answer them because you don't have hindsight on your side.

you're a joke of a poster on this site.

LOL.

OK, I'm not going to waste much time explaining to you WHY your posts are so foolish and unworthy of response, but to spell one thing out for you:

That post of mine you spent all that time digging up had nothing to do with the draft being a "crap shoot", and even if it did, it wouldn't be an argument for trading them away for quick fixes.

Maybe if you read it and think about it enough you'll be able to see that and then you'll have a clue.

Until then, I guess we can look forward to your posts full of pure crap and really pathetic insults.

Thanks for the laughs, though.

[Hitman21ST]

The AFC West was also the weakest division in all of football during his glorious run. Oakland was old and they began their downslide, San Deigo was rebuilding, Kansas City was solid but nothing to write home about, and Seattle was flat out horrible. Of course this is during his 90's run. When the division became a 4 team division the only team worth a damn was San Deigo, Kansas City was a good offensive team with Vermeil as coach but their defense was horrible. Once again a weak division,

So then we probably shouldn't count the Belichick and the Patriot's three Super Bowls, or Indy's Super Bowl, or even the Steeler's two latest Super Bowls, because they all played in "weak divisions" at the time. Hell, for that matter, the Saints Super Bowl doesn't count, because last year the NFC South was nothing to write home about either.

[P007]

Yeah, 2 losing seasons post Elway. That's not success at all.

How many playoff wins post Elway? Hell we have as many playoff wins as he does during that stretch.