Shanny's record didn't justify his hiring. Shanny & Bruce must explain the overhaul to Danny.

[tiger187126]

LOL.

OK, I'm not going to waste much time explaining to you WHY your posts are so foolish and unworthy of response, but to spell one thing out for you:

That post of mine you spent all that time digging up had nothing to do with the draft being a "crap shoot", and even if it did, it wouldn't be an argument for trading them away for quick fixes.

Maybe if you read it and think about it enough you'll be able to see that and then you'll have a clue.

Until then, I guess we can look forward to your posts full of pure crap and really pathetic insults.

Thanks for the laughs, though.

name your preferred coach/gm pre or post shannyallen.

quit hiding behind all your little jabs and answer that.

it's obvious to everyone reading you're just spinning tires trying to get out of it because you don't have a clue.

[Hitman21ST]

How many playoff wins post Elway? Hell we have as many playoff wins as he does during that stretch.

With a coach who did the same thing that Shanahan did (trade away picks for players). He also has one more trip to the conference championship game than we do in that span, more division titles, more wins, etc.

[P007]

So who would you suggest we hire that:

A) Was available

Had a better resume

Why not give a young hungry coach a chance instead of a retread? 2 people come to mind Leslie Frazier and Russ Grimm. If you want to look at resume alone Harbaugh and Tomlin wouldn't have been hired by their respected clubs considering the retreads that were available at the time. Considering the success the Dungy disciples have had in this league, Frazier looks like he would have been the gem last year.

[Duckus]

Sometimes I wonder if people realize how ****ing hard it is to win 1 Super Bowl, let alone 2. It drives me insane when I hear "he has only won two" or "he only won two super bowls because . . . (enter excuse)" or "he has not won a super bowl in several years."

I don't care who you are, you coach a team to 2 Super Bowls and you are the man. Period. Greatness. End of discussion. When you try and argue otherwise you just sound sill.

I have no idea if Mike Shanahan will be successful here. No one really does. But to pretend he was not qualified and his record was not elite is ****ing silly.

God. . . . I would kill for that record for the Skins. 2 SBs and tons of 9, 10, 11 and 12 win season . . . . . :drool:

[tiger187126]

How many playoff wins post Elway? Hell we have as many playoff wins as he does during that stretch.

let me ask you this, how do you throw aside a guy who took a qb who couldn't win the big game gave him a running game that was never there and won two super bowls?

i mean you act like super bowl wins are just handed out to teams with good qbs.

did you take a look at what he was building in denver?

jay cutler is leading the bears to what looks like an NFC North 1st place team in the most qb snakebit town.

brandon marshall is a ridiculous talent who catches everything in sight. mentally is another story and miami might destroy him.

peyton hillis? well he's just your run of the mill 7th rounder who turns out to be a pro bowl running back and can drop 150 yards on the ravens. another in the long list of running backs out of nowhere for shanny.

clady? pro bowl left tackle

maybe you should take a look at shannahan's drafts before he was fired and look at the talent that he was stacking his team with. but he gets fired out of nowhere more or less (the way it was reported it was a shocker to a lot of people "in the know") and a young up and comer, maybe the hottest one around, comes in and trades everyone away attempts to make something by trading up to take tim tebow and turns the broncos into basement dwellers.

maybe, just maybe this stuff isn't as easy as it sounds.

[P007]

When will people realize that the Defense is in transition and this was a throw away year for stats...they are teaching people a new defense and they know they didn't have all the parts. We were not going to have a top D this year and they knew that. Is that really that hard to comprehend?

So if that is the case for the defense how come that excuse doesn't apply to the offense?

[tiger187126]

Why not give a young hungry coach a chance instead of a retread? 2 people come to mind Leslie Frazier and Russ Grimm. If you want to look at resume alone Harbaugh and Tomlin wouldn't have been hired by their respected clubs considering the retreads that were available at the time. Considering the success the Dungy disciples have had in this league, Frazier looks like he would have been the gem last year.

here's the deal since you seem to not be paying attention:

these teams have winning oraganizations and a great structure. dick lebeau is still there. as are most of the coaches that were with these teams. especially indy, they had to fudge the titles just to keep the guys they had running the team around past their pensions.

is fraizer looking like a gem now? playing brett favre on the brink of death instead of making a commitment to the future. how's that team doing since he took over?

we're not indy, pittsburgh, or baltimore. we don't have the tools they have.

we have a pile of **** and we can't just throw a guy like Zorn up there and expect him to rebuild it.

[texasthunder]

Why not hire a hungry coach, i.e. Russ Grim or Leslie Fraizer. Instead we go with Shanny, the OP hit the nail on the head. Shanny has done much in the last 10 years.

Yea we tried that, in 1994 we hired a hungry coordinator, from a sucessful team, that new head coach went 3-13

Then we hired a college coach that was hungry to get into the pros, we saw how well that went.

Then we hired a coach who was hungry to be a offensive coordinator, then made him head coach, that went well also.

But the best of all was in 1981 when the Redskins signed an assnt coach out of San diego, who proceeded to lose his first five games, and the team went 8-8.

Imagine if that same senario had happened recently. The very same fans would be screaming for his head and crying about what a mistake it was to fire Jack Pardee.

Sometimes you just have to be patient for more then 1 year !!

[Hitman21ST]

So if that is the case for the defense how come that excuse doesn't apply to the offense?

Because you're changing the ENTIRE philosophy of the defense, rather than altering a philosophy for the offense. We already had parts of the offense we're running now in place.

[Darkstarr]

I will grant that the AFC has been a stronger conference, but as I suspected the difference is marginal. Using your numbers, in 15 years there is a 44 game swing (If the NFC had won 44 more, the conference records would be 430-430. So, were talking about a swing of about 5%. That's not much of a difference -- not enough to give Mike Shanahan an excuse for winning just one playoff game in ten years with full control of the team.

Your argument about this is comical, if ands, buts. Bottem line the afc won 88 more games then the nfc is not marginal in football it is total domination, they had the best 4 teams of the decade (NE, Ind, Balt, & Pitt) so argue that they were even close is stupid. U earned full control when u bring 2 SB's to a franchise that had won 0. His winning % is great plz how many coaches can you name that have had better careers so far? Maybe a handful that is it.

[Rufus T Firefly]

name your preferred coach/gm pre or post shannyallen.

quit hiding behind all your little jabs and answer that.

it's obvious to everyone reading you're just spinning tires trying to get out of it because you don't have a clue.

One last time: I don't talk to GM candidates, I don't have any way of knowing what any of them are thinking. Neither do you. I could name people i would interview, but it would be pointless. You want me to name someone so you can say "How do you KNOW they would have done better?" It's a really ridiculously stupid argument that you think is clever.

I would have interviewed and found someone who at least knew that this team needed a complete rebuild, which puts them ahead of of the current regime.

If soneone is doing a bad job, they're doing a bad job and I don't need to create a hypothetical certainty alternative to prove that bad=bad.

Try to wrap your head around that. I know that's beyond you, but at least try.

---------- Post added December-25th-2010 at 11:05 PM ----------

Yea we tried that, in 1994 we hired a hungry coordinator, from a sucessful team, that new head coach went 3-13

Then we hired a college coach that was hungry to get into the pros, we saw how well that went.

Then we hired a coach who was hungry to be a offensive coordinator, then made him head coach, that went well also.

But the best of all was in 1981 when the Redskins signed an assnt coach out of San diego, who proceeded to lose his first five games, and the team went 8-8.

Imagine if that same senario had happened recently. The very same fans would be screaming for his head and crying about what a mistake it was to fire Jack Pardee.

Sometimes you just have to be patient for more then 1 year !!

The team's only truly successful coach in the past half century was a young coordinator. I don't think tha can be used as proof that we shouldn't hire young coordinators.

[Annonymous Source]

So if that is the case for the defense how come that excuse doesn't apply to the offense?

This is a false argument because the offense this year has been superior to the offense last year across the board. It may not be as quick of a turnaround as people wanted, but there is clear signs of improvement from the Offense, and pieces are starting to emerge that can be long term contributors.

[P007]

what does leslie fraizer or russ grim know about building a team? russ grim is and has been an offensive line coach for his entire career. the last time i checked hiring a guy who has never even coordinated to become your head coach ends badly.

who would our gm be?

people throw around "young, hungry coach" like they work all the time.

as i said before and will say again until it gets through:

young coaches work for underperforming teams who need a shot in the arm, but have a good structure.

they do jack **** for a team that is in the gutter in terms of talent and structure.

you think snyder is going to listen to leslie fraizer about personnel moves? and how is his team doing since he took over?

---------- Post added December-25th-2010 at 10:20 PM ----------

again, nothing.

you're worthless. you come in, write something that you read in another thread, and refuse to put any facts behind it.

i ask you simple questions and you refuse to answer them because you don't have hindsight on your side.

you're a joke of a poster on this site.

Synder isn't supposed to listen to Frazier about personnel moves, that's the GM's job. Last time I checked Harbaugh was a special teams coach. To be honest with you I think Jim Harbaugh will make a damn good NFL coach, look at what he has done with Stanford and he has a NFL pedigree as well.

[Hitman21ST]

To be honest with you I think Jim Harbaugh will make a damn good NFL coach, look at what he has done with Stanford and he has a NFL pedigree as well.

Steve Spurrier?

[Special K]

And it's not my lack of patinece that's the problem, nor is it any other fans.

You're absolutely right. Your lack of patience isn't your primary problem

[P007]

So then we probably shouldn't count the Belichick and the Patriot's three Super Bowls, or Indy's Super Bowl, or even the Steeler's two latest Super Bowls, because they all played in "weak divisions" at the time. Hell, for that matter, the Saints Super Bowl doesn't count, because last year the NFC South was nothing to write home about either.

Again the AFC West was joke during Shanny's glorious run. During the Pat's, Indy's, and Pitt's runs to the superbowl, do you really think the AFC West was any better than those divisions? Come on man, I know you support Shanny but come on. To be honest the AFC South was tough during Indy's superbowl run. Wasn't Tennesse the top seed that year?

[Rufus T Firefly]

You're absolutely right. Your lack of patience isn't your primary problem

Good one.

[P007]

With a coach who did the same thing that Shanahan did (trade away picks for players). He also has one more trip to the conference championship game than we do in that span, more division titles, more wins, etc.

Which proves my point, with more talent he has done less.

[Darkstarr]

To say the afc west was a joke during his glory days, is bascially saying you do not follow football. In one of the years KC actually won the division and Denver took the wild card. The afc west was a good division.

[Hitman21ST]

Again the AFC West was joke during Shanny's glorious run. During the Pat's, Indy's, and Pitt's runs to the superbowl, do you really think the AFC West was any better than those divisions? Come on man, I know you support Shanny but come on. To be honest the AFC South was tough during Indy's superbowl run. Wasn't Tennesse the top seed that year?

AFCW was anything but tough. The Colts were the 3 seed. The Titans were a whopping 8-8 that year.

Chargers (14-2)

Ravens (13-3)

Colts (12-4)

Patriots (12-4)

Jets (10-6)

Chiefs (9-7)

---------- Post added December-25th-2010 at 11:30 PM ----------

Which proves my point, with more talent he has done less.

Wrong. It's a great argument against your point, which was why bring in Shanny to trade away picks for older players? And that "he" was referring to Shanny. His "bad" 10 year run in Denver was better than our 20 year run since 91.

[Special K]

LOL. Yes, that's exactly what I call it.

Draft picks for a "stopgap while rebuilding"? Holy crap, what you people are defending.

I'm simply stating what Shanahan said he was attempting to do this year with the constraints we were under.

I don't think many people are arguing that this McNabb trade has turned out to be a disaster. I was happy with the trade at first because I thought he was a major upgrade from Campbell and might possibly have a couple good years left in the tank as Shanahan decided how he was going to approach rebuilding the team. However, in hindsight, it doesn't look like McNabb is a good fit here as his performance this season has stank and it appears he and Kyle Shanahan may have some issues working with one another. And it sucks that we gave up draft picks for this.

However, believe it or not, mistakes happen...and I'm much more willing to be patient and give someone who's attained the success Shanahan has without immediately thinking I know more than him and call him "grossly incompetent." I'm sorry, but people who post with such arrogance definitely make me shake my head in dismay...

[A Walton]

Coming off of the Zorn era, Coach Shannahan was the perfect hire. It is amazing to me the short term memory of some of our fan base. I can't recall any 'turn in your fan card/ boycott/ signs and any of that other crap this year.......

The naysayers just can't get over the losing of the two Mcnabb draft picks...now if it happens again there is problem....but I mean that trade by no means are on the same bad trade levels as Jason Taylor and TJ Duckett.

Shanny took a risk at the single most important position on the team and it didn't work. Let's move on and see what coach Shanny has for season 2.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I'm simply stating what Shanahan said he was attempting to do this year with the constraints we were under.

I don't think many people are arguing that this McNabb trade has turned out to be a disaster. I was happy with the trade at first because I thought he was a major upgrade from Campbell and might possibly have a couple good years left in the tank as Shanahan decided how he was going to approach rebuilding the team. However, in hindsight, it doesn't look like McNabb is a good fit here as his performance this season has stank and it appears he and Kyle Shanahan may have some issues working with one another. And it sucks that we gave up draft picks for this.

However, believe it or not, mistakes happen...and I'm much more willing to be patient and give someone who's attained the success Shanahan has without immediately thinking I know more than him and call him "grossly incompetent." I'm sorry, but people who post with such arrogance definitely make me shake my head in dismay...

Shake away, there's no arrogance on my part. It was such a transparently bad plan that anyone could have seen it- and many of us did. I don't think I had any special skill to see that. It was the obvious nature of it that made it "gross" incompetence.

You want to talk arrogance? You know how hard it must be to rebuild an NFL team? I mean, how many try and fail? How about competing right way? Most teams try to do that and fail. So, how arrogant do you have to be to think you can take over a franchise as moribund as the Redskins and think you can do BOTH? To decide to not trade away vets for picks, but instead trade picks for shoirt-term upgrades, and still think you're going to be able to build a Super Bowl contender in the long-term? There's a level of arrogance there that is truly mind-blowing.

[Brett81]

At this point, I am all for ignoring the majority of you whiny fans who just won't be patient to see anything develop... starting with you

Couldn't agree more. I keep thinking I've had too much holiday food this year, but it's reading statements like the OP's that keep me on the toilet.

[SkinsFTW]

We knew all of Shanahan's stats when he was hired last year yet there was no demand that he explain himself, discounting the record because the Broncos had John Elway or any other similar explanations demanded from him. Instead, it was excitement and anticipation for the season and the future.

.

Come on bro, not all of us were singing the same tune. I've been against Shanahan the entire time, he ran the same type of deal Snyder does when he was in Denver, and I wasn't alone in thinking that way. Now we see it's the same old thing we saw before but look at what he did in Denver over the past decade trying to bring back the Terrell Davis/Elway days, he bought what he could and still never had any defense worth even fielding, like when he traded for the entire 32nd ranked Cleveland Defensive line and it failed in Denver too, even though he had a 1500+ yard runner 2 years in a row, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith and Ed McCafferey, he still produced a mediocre team in a weak division and won 0 playoff games with Portis being the best back in the league, he wasn't a winner during the weak period of the AFC West which was between 2000-2008, what does that tell you? He won the same number of playoff games over a decade as Joe Gibbs did here in his short 4 years taking over a totally ****ed up team. Shanahan is the man, right?