Shanny's record didn't justify his hiring. Shanny & Bruce must explain the overhaul to Danny.

[Bang]

What in the world makes anyone think that if we fire Shanahan now that any coach worth a damn will ever want to come here?

I wouldn't.

You get half a season to show any results or your reputation is questioned and you're tossed out on your can.

There's a documentary running on HBO right now called "Lombardi".

It's an excellent piece, I recommend it to anyone. One part struck me as similar to how our situation is perceived.. especially if the fans were in charge.

As you know, the Packers are the only publicly owned team in the NFL. They have a board, not an owner.

Lombardi is watching his very first practice, and he's running an intra-squad scrimmage. The Packers won 1 game the year before, so they were predictably bad. A runner came down and handed Lombardi a piece of paper with a list of everything the board saw that was wrong in the scrimmage, and what he was to do to fix it.

He balled up the paper and threw it down, then told the runner to go tell them that he was in charge and he didn't want to hear from them again.

Shanahan isn't Lombardi, to be sure. But let the man do his job.

~Bang

[scskin]

The overhaul is just beginning. Patience grasshopper, patience.

[redskins59]

Made the playoffs four times with one playoff win in ten years. if you love high-grade mediocrity, Mike and Bruce were great hires.

Better than what the redskins have achieved in the last 10 years. The bottomline here is that getting to the playoffs give you a chance to get to the superbowl. Shanahan gave the Broncos many such chances. Plus, what makes you think Shanahan hasn't learned from his mistakes?

[Rufus T Firefly]

So who would you suggest we hire that:

A) Was available

Had a better resume

I know you didn't ask me, but I wouldn't give a damn about "resume" in regards to HC experience.

I would have hired young guys with the brains and patience to recognize the need for a massive rebuild. Can't say who would impress enough in interviews to get the jobs, but I would want to see vision and creativity. Don't know many FO types, but for Coach I certainly would have wanted to interview Ron Rivera, Mike Pettine, Mike Heimerdinger, Todd Bowles, Mike Mularkey and Pat Shurmur.

Can't know how those guy would come across in the interview process, so can't say who I'd want to hire.

[authentic]

I know you didn't ask me, but I wouldn't give a damn about "resume" in regards to HC experience.

I would have hired young guys with the brains and patience to recognize the need for a massive rebuild. Can't say who would impress enough in interviews to get the jobs, but I would want to see vision and creativity. Don't know many FO types, but for Coach I certainly would have wanted to interview Ron Rivera, Mike Pettine, Mike Heimerdinger, Todd Bowles, Mike Mularkey and Pat Shurmur.

Can't know how those guy would come across in the interview process, so can't say who I'd want to hire.

....And then when the "young guy" effs up, the mob would call for his head, demanding we get someone with a resume....

[Nicealot]

We knew all of Shanahan's stats when he was hired last year yet there was no demand that he explain himself, discounting the record because the Broncos had John Elway or any other similar explanations demanded from him. Instead, it was excitement and anticipation for the season and the future.

Obviously things haven't worked out this year (to say the least), but let's not get silly with things that really don't matter at this point. Shanahan has been hired, he is the coach and his son is the offensive coordinator. If no imnprovement is noted within the next season or two, then let's discuss the appropriateness of his continued employment with the Redskins. Otherwise, let's move forward. The great majority of ES bought into Shanahan when he was hired. It's funny how people are pretending otherwise now...

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

. Plus, what makes you think Shanahan hasn't learned from his mistakes?

Jim Haslett and the 32nd ranked defense.

[2cents]

When will people realize that the Defense is in transition and this was a throw away year for stats...they are teaching people a new defense and they know they didn't have all the parts. We were not going to have a top D this year and they knew that. Is that really that hard to comprehend?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

When will people realize that the Defense is in transition and this was a throw away year for stats...they are teaching people a new defense and they know they didn't have all the parts. We were not going to have a top D this year and they knew that. Is that really that hard to comprehend?

You're right about the defensive transition we're going through but Shanahan has had horrible defenses in the past so there is a pattern.

[Rufus T Firefly]

....And then when the "young guy" effs up, the mob would call for his head, demanding we get someone with a resume....

Yeah, "the mob" probably would, but who cares? And anyone who "effs up" would deserve criticsm, so I don't get the point anyway.

[2cents]

Well Shanny has had good defenses in the past as well, they had a good D when they won back to back Super Bowls. The fact that he tried to fix it later and didn't quite tells me he knows D is important.

[Oldfan]

So who would you suggest we hire that:

A) Was available

Had a better resume

I don't know the NFL personnel well enough to answer that question. However, in Snyder's shoes, if my goal was to become a perennial winner, I would not have hired Bruce and Mike who have extensive resumes proving that they can't achieve anything beyond the mediocre. I would want someone with the potential to do more.

[authentic]

I don't know the NFL personnel well enough to answer that question. However, in Snyder's shoes, if my goal was to become a perennial winner, I would not have hired Bruce and Mike who have extensive resumes proving that they can't achieve anything beyond the mediocre. I would want someone with the potential to do more.

isn't difficult to complain when you don't have a better solution?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Well Shanny has had good defenses in the past as well, they had a good D when they won back to back Super Bowls. The fact that he tried to fix it later and didn't quite tells me he knows D is important.

Knowing its important and being able to actually fix it is two different things.

I hope Shanahan the personnel guy doesn't get in the way of Shanahan the coach.

[Oldfan]

isn't difficult to complain when you don't have a better solution?

No, why should it be? Explain your reasoning, please.

[2cents]

Brave, I hope that too....I'm just tired of hearing that Shanny doesn't know the D side of the ball exists. I'm pretty sure he's been around long enough to know it does. I think he tried too many quick fix attempts in Denver. I hope he gives it more time here.

[Darkstarr]

OP.....

Shanahan is an average, to maybe even slightly above average coach. Compare that to what the Orioles or Wizards have, and be happy we could attract even him.

Really average to slightly aboved average? Plz list the coaches who have more accomplishments then him? I am sorry this man is a great head coach and knows how to build things. I love how we post his record and his negatives, but you forget to mention In those years he was making or just missing the playoffs, he was going against playoff spots with NE, Ind, Pitt, SD, Balt., Tenn, KC (they were really good for a bit). The NFC had nobody, there is a reason the AFC kicked the crap out of the NFC all the time. To say the nfc least was better then the afc in the 2000's in just dead wrong. He was losing to SB winners not some doormat from the nfc.

[SonnyandSam]

Did the OP even bother to read what he typed. I would LOVE to have the Redskins win 9-13 games each year....which is what Shanny did almost every year! Yes, they did not do well in the playoffs...but that was a function of bad defenses; not his offense.

So you prefer going back to another Zorn or a Spurrier? Yeah...that makes a whole lot of sense.

And what is it with fans who think this year was NOT a rebuilding year? Over 30 new bodies on the team. Most of them leftovers and rejects from other teams because the Skins had no draft picks or talent from the previous regime. I expect many more new faces next year. Exactly where do all you junior GMs think 45 new, great players are going to come from in a single year? This WAS the first year of a rebuilding year.

Redskins fans are so incredibly stupid and impatient. They all want a complete makeover into a Super Bowl contending team in one year. Shanahan needs to be give at least two to three years to turn things around. Everyone wants to start all over again....and then again. You people must all be related to Snyder....too impatient and so egotistical you think you know more than the football experts.

[Oldfan]

Really average to slightly aboved average? Plz list the coaches who have more accomplishments then him? I am sorry this man is a great head coach and knows how to build things. I love how we post his record and his negatives, but you forget to mention In those years he was making or just missing the playoffs, he was going against playoff spots with NE, Ind, Pitt, SD, Balt., Tenn, KC (they were really good for a bit). The NFC had nobody, there is a reason the AFC kicked the crap out of the NFC all the time. To say the nfc least was better then the afc in the 2000's in just dead wrong. He was losing to SB winners not some doormat from the nfc.

Do you have a won-lost stat, NFC versus AFC, to back up your claim?

---------- Post added December-25th-2010 at 05:07 PM ----------

... Yes, they did not do well in the playoffs...but that was a function of bad defenses; not his offense.

We didn't hire Mike as an OC.

So you prefer going back to another Zorn or a Spurrier? Yeah...that makes a whole lot of sense.

Certainly not, but I wanted someone who had the potential to do better than Mike.

And what is it with fans who think this year was NOT a rebuilding year?

So, why didn't Mike treat it as a rebuilding year?

You people must all be related to Snyder....too impatient and so egotistical you think you know more than the football experts.

Some "football experts" are smarter than other "football experts." I want somebody who can compete with the likes of Belichik. Mike had full control of a football team for ten years and proved he couldn't cut it.

[Darkstarr]

Do you have a won-lost stat, NFC versus AFC, to back up your claim?

The AFC doesn't win the Super Bowl every year. It just seems like it. But the AFC does drill the NFC every year in the inter-conference series. With two weeks remaining in the 2009 season, the AFC has already clinched the annual series from the NFC, 35-25. Only four games remain between the two conferences.

The NFC has not won the inter-conference series since 1995. Since that time, the AFC has won nine of the 13 Super Bowls. The AFC also has compiled a 474-386 regular-season record against the NFC, a winning percentage of 55.1.

I also read the 2010 season is bad also.

[Hitman21ST]

I don't know the NFL personnel well enough to answer that question. However, in Snyder's shoes, if my goal was to become a perennial winner, I would not have hired Bruce and Mike who have extensive resumes proving that they can't achieve anything beyond the mediocre. I would want someone with the potential to do more.

Hence Kyle Shanahan

[Hail-to-da-skins-21]

IMO u have to give Shanny at least 2 more years of doing w/e then the next year I would really be hard on him .............I would say give him at least 3 years before u judge him because our team was just so bad when he first got here and we had 0 picks (least thats wut it felt like) and no young talent but hell we know our fan base/front office doesn't have the patience for that

[tiger187126]

what coach/gm is out there with a spotless record like people on here seem to think exists? no one is always good in the nfl and if you hold anyone up to such harsh criticism i'm sure you'll see some flaws.

every bill bellicheck has his cleveland years. just like how no draft is perfect.

but to say that mike shannahan is not worthy to be a head coach in the nfl is just plain stupid. how is he any worse than bill cowher or jon gruden?

and oh yeah, if you deceide to fire him those two aren't going to say "oh look one of the worst collection of talent in the nfl and an impatient owner/fanbase, let me hop on that train so my every move can get blown up 1000x and written to death about."

[Special K]

This thread is flat out embarrassing.

Shanny and Bruce needs to discuss with Shanny exactly what needs to be done. Explain to him that the next couple of years are going to be losing seasons, which will look really bad when the 18 game schedule kicks in. This years 5-11 will be a 5-13 in 2 years. The team needs a complete overhaul and it will take 2-3 years to complete rebuild.

They need to assure him that the fiasco of 2010 will not happen again.

I hope they read this thread so they can be reminded by these brilliant posts how they should do their jobs.

[Oldfan]

The AFC doesn't win the Super Bowl every year. It just seems like it. But the AFC does drill the NFC every year in the inter-conference series. With two weeks remaining in the 2009 season, the AFC has already clinched the annual series from the NFC, 35-25. Only four games remain between the two conferences.

The NFC has not won the inter-conference series since 1995. Since that time, the AFC has won nine of the 13 Super Bowls. The AFC also has compiled a 474-386 regular-season record against the NFC, a winning percentage of 55.1.

I also read the 2010 season is bad also.

I will grant that the AFC has been a stronger conference, but as I suspected the difference is marginal. Using your numbers, in 15 years there is a 44 game swing (If the NFC had won 44 more, the conference records would be 430-430. So, were talking about a swing of about 5%. That's not much of a difference -- not enough to give Mike Shanahan an excuse for winning just one playoff game in ten years with full control of the team.

---------- Post added December-25th-2010 at 06:20 PM ----------

Hence Kyle Shanahan

We were discussing Bruce and Mike and their qualifications. What does Kyle have to do with this?