Can Anyone Justify Starting Mcnabb?

[Chiefinonhaze]

Does anyone still think Mcnabb should start? If so, I'd like to hear the reasoning.

[praise_gibbs]

Does anyone still think Mcnabb should start? If so, I'd like to hear the reasoning.

My main gripe with the benching of McNabb is in another thread, however, I would have LOVED to see the Bears message boards with Cutler last year. His first year in that system and sucked massive balls. Look at him now. Yes he is 7 years younger than McNabb however, a new system has learning curves. Always? Mostly.

[MartinC]

My main gripe with the benching of McNabb is in another thread, however, I would have LOVED to see the Bears message boards with Cutler last year. His first year in that system and sucked massive balls. Look at him now. Yes he is 7 years younger than McNabb however, a new system has learning curves. Always? Mostly.

The only problem with that logic is that Cutler this year is running a completely different system to the one he ran last year. He is in effect in his first year in a new system again.

[darrelgreenie]

The only problem with that logic is that Cutler this year is running a completely different system to the one he ran last year. He is in effect in his first year in a new system again.

But he also has Mike Martz who kinda knows what he's doing.

I think Martz is doing a heck of job considering how Cutler was playing last year and how lousy their OL remains.

In general i think you would agree that its fair to say and generally accepted that NFL offenses take time to learn and even longer to master.

[MartinC]

In general i think you would agree that its fair to say and generally accepted that NFL offenses take time to learn and even longer to master.

There is certainly a learning curve for any QB and improvement as the year goes on and into year two and beyond. For whatever reason the coaches have just not seen the improvement and growth within the system from McNabb they were expecting. I think it's too black and white to put the whole blame for that on either side - but my feeling is Kyle did a poor job of adjusting his system and play calling to fit McNabb and McNabb did a poor job of adjusting to a working within the system.

[Chiefinonhaze]

But he also has Mike Martz who kinda knows what he's doing.

I think Martz is doing a heck of job considering how Cutler was playing last year and how lousy their OL remains.

In general i think you would agree that its fair to say and generally accepted that NFL offenses take time to learn and even longer to master.

You're completely right. An NFL offense is complex and takes plenty of studying and repetition to master. But Mcnabb did not progress in this offense over 13 weeks. Actually, he degressed. His best game was in week 2. IMHO, Rext ran the offense much better in his first game starting. Can Mcnabb do the same? Of course, he's a great QB. But he isn't willing to adapt to this offense. He has certain talents, and needs an O-Coordinator to suit his offense to these talents, just as Andy Reid did. Shanahan certainly isn't willing to change his offense to Mcnabbs liking, so it will never work.

But Mcnabb should feel ashamed, that Rex Grossman can outplay him regardless of the offense that they are playing. If I was Mcnabb, and I saw Grossman excelling in the offense I was struggling in, I wouldn't want to change teams. I would come back with a vengence to prove that I am a better QB than Rex Grossman. We all know Mcnabb is the better QB. But, Grossman is showing his proficiency in Shanahan's offense and I'm not sure Mcnabb can match it.

[darrelgreenie]

There is certainly a learning curve for any QB and improvement as the year goes on and into year two and beyond. For whatever reason the coaches have just not seen the improvement and growth within the system from McNabb they were expecting. I think it's too black and white to put the whole blame for that on either side - but my feeling is Kyle did a poor job of adjusting his system and play calling to fit McNabb and McNabb did a poor job of adjusting to a working within the system.

Maybe it could be that simple.

But you know when you have the feeling that something doesn't seem right?

I mean 13 games? Heck the leaks started even before the bye week. For that matter why even leak stuff?

They way things have played out, there something more to it.

And why even bench McNabb what is gained long term? The QB is only here to be a bridge to the QB of the future anyway.

It just doesn't seem kosher.

Maybe the just don't like each other? Who knows.

---------- Post added December-22nd-2010 at 01:03 AM ----------

But, Grossman is showing his proficiency in Shanahan's offense and I'm not sure Mcnabb can match it.

I'm gonna wait until i see Rex against a defense that isn't 2nd in the league in points allowed.

[Chiefinonhaze]

Maybe it could be that simple.

But you know when you have the feeling that something doesn't seem right?

They way things have played out, there something more to it.

It just doesn't seem kosher.

---------- Post added December-22nd-2010 at 01:03 AM ----------

I'm gonna wait until i see Rex against a defense that isn't 2nd in the league in points allowed.

How many points did Mcnabb get us against Dallas week 1? 13 right.... His best game was against Houston. How well do you think Grossman would have played against Houston? Football isn't as simple as plugging players in who are better. Players need to fit the scheme in order to succeed. Hell, if Grossman fits our offesive scheme better than Donovan Mcnabb, then I'm all for it. Let's stop trying to put a square into a circle and build some consistency within our offense. If Rex Mutha Suckin Grossman can put up 30 points in this Offense, what can a physically gifted QB like Vick do? I would love to see Vick in this offense. It would be extraordinary.

[darrelgreenie]

How many points did Mcnabb get us against Dallas week 1? 13 right.... His best game was against Houston. How well do you think Grossman would have played against Houston? Football isn't as simple as plugging players in who are better. Players need to fit the scheme in order to succeed. Hell, if Grossman fits our offesive scheme better than Donovan Mcnabb, then I'm all for it.

How does any of your post change that Dallas has allowed the 2nd most in the league?

And BTW McNabb had higher QB rating and fewer turnovers in the Houston game then Rex had against Dallas, since you mentioned Houston.

The week 1 Dallas team isn't the same as the week 14(?) team.

C'mon you know that.

Just like the week redskins isn't the same as the now either. e.g sans Joey Galloway.

Grossman may indeed be a better fit for our offense, but i'm still with holding judgement until i see more.

[skinsfan913]

i didnt even waste my time in reading all the posts in this thread cuz u kinda get the gyst of most peoples thoughts in the first few posted. I will just say this.. I think most of you just dont get it at all!! This is McNabb's 1st year in this offense! Let me repeat that: This is McNabbs 1st year in this system!! I think most of you see the success he had in Philly and think he would do the same here in Washington. Wouldnt it be fair to say that he needs TIME to actually feel comfortable with a new offense in order to be proficient at it?! Why is the QB position the only one under scrutiny on such a TERRIBLE team on both sides of the ball? Wouldnt a QB in his second year in an offense automatically have the leg up on a QB in his 1st year? I just think the whole way this was handled along with the BS we continue to be fed is somewhat insulting to educated football fans! I just think that this is a cover for the atrocious playcalling we have been seeing. I also dont see what the big deal is with Grossman's game, yes he had a good game but didnt we also see exactly what he is and always has been which is a QB that throws interceptions at the absolute worst times in a game?!

Lets compare McNabb in his 2nd year in a system with that of Grossman and then tell me who gives us the best chance to win!

[ncr2h]

Mcnabb didn't get benched because he doesn't know the system. He got benched because it has become obvious that, even if he DID know the system, he wouldn't play well in it. Throwing the ball at a receiver's feet is not a function of how well you know the system. It's not something you can blame on the offensive coordinator, or the personnel, or the playcalling. There was a open receiver, and you flat-out cannot get the ball to him. That's (my opinion) on why Mcnabb was benched. Most of the shortcomings Mcnabb displayed this year won't go away with additional time in the system, a shored-up oline, better playmakers, etc. The shortcomings I'm talking about are:

- being wildly inaccurate, to the point where even if it's a simple pitch-and-catch I still do not feel confident that the ball will get there

- being excruciatingly slow to the LOS, causing us to burn timeouts that we shouldn't have to

- injuries, which everyone has been blaming his poor performance on, are simply part of who Mcnabb is. He is injured every single year, and another year in the system wont change that

Being in the system for an additional year MAY help him with:

- his propensity for bombing the ball downfield when all we need is a couple of yards

- some of his INTs this year were "WTF?" INTs. More time in the system may lead to better decision-making.

- his footwork has been awful, to the point where he has probably generated 5+ sacks simply by getting tripped up by his center or slipping on the turf

Even if he corrects the bottom 3, the top 3 won't go away. He doesn't bring the skillset we need.

[laxpck]

By benching mcnabb we killed any chance we had at getting draft picks for him this offseason. If your decision is to part ways with mcnabb then that's fine. I trust his call there, but at least try to get some value for him. Grossman is not the future of our franchise. Doesn't make sense to play him when that decision will cost us draft picks.

Its not the Redskins who will dictate value for McNabb

It will be the bidding war between Arizona and Minnesota that will ultimately dictate his value on the market. Nothing we did could dampen the fire of the bidding war between the two teams. It is based on their internal need and not our internal perceived value.

[Larry Brown #43]

So now starting a 30 year old QB with a career rating in the SIXTIES is seeing what we have / a youth movement?!?!??

I believe Plummer's career rating was in the 60s when Shanny acquired him in Denver too. You have to understand that Shanny doesn't care what you've done in the past. He only cares about what he believes he can get you to do in the future.

So I think Shanny wants to determine whether Rex can (a) be his next Jake Plummer project or ( be a bridge until the next (drafted) QB is ready to play. If Rex can do either of those two things, it would obviously have value.

Shanny doesn't want to draft a QB and have him learn under a QB (McNabb) who doesn't play within the system.

[illone]

The only reason you stick with McNabb would be to showcase him for a trade. If the Skins DONT have to plans to trade him then just let the other guys play and see if they have a future with the team.

:whoknows:

[wildbill1952]

Can I justify starting McNabb? When on his game. McNabb was a Cowboy killer and a Giant killer. Is he that today? That's why we have Shanahan and Kyle. They do the evaluation. If they think he's got a few years left in the tank, they keep him. If they think he's done for, he's gone. The best we can hope for is a second round pick, which leaves Rex as the starting QB. Again, if The Shanahans think Rex is as good or a better starting QB, then they go with him. How about backup QB? Getting hit hard 4 or 5 times a game means the odds favor getting hurt at least once every couple of seasons. The backup QB of the Washington Redskins has to be capabale of starting 2 or 3 games and coming in off the bench cold. We know Rex can do it. How about Beck? if the post-season is dependent on winning 2 out of 3 games while your backup QB is on the hot seat, is Beck that guy? Or would the veteran presence of a McNabb make more sense?

These are Shanny questions. I like McNabb, but I liked Campbell too. I would rather have spent a draft choice on a Colt McCoy, than two draft choices on acquiring McNabb, but again, it's Shanny with the decision making authority. I was against the McNabb acquisition, just as I was the Haynesworth acquistion, but the reason I disliked the McNabb decision so much more was because of the draft picks we gave up, not because of the quality of the player.

I'm afraid we've put all our eggs in the Shanahan basket. I hope to come back in two more years and say with everyone what a genius he is. Until then, I just hope Dan Snyder leaves him alone, to succeed or fail on his own. We've already seen a Snyder built team, playing Fantasy Football with this formerly proud NFL franchise. I'll hang around to see if Shanahan produces a better product, whether he ever starts McNabb again, or not.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

No way I would start DMAC5, when is the last time we pt up 30 on another team and went 4 for 4 in the red zone. Granted Rex is NOT the answer, but the team came out of the huddle quicker, scored more points and looked more efficient. Consistency has always been a problem for Grossman...we will see what he does this week. At this point the season is over other than seeing who will be here next year and looking at some players in a game situation so we know what we have.

[GoSkins561]

Allow this to marinate:

Mcnabb's bad 2010 season in which he is getting benched for is better than Grossman's best season.

The are making McNabb the fall guy for the poor excuse of offense that we have witnessed under Kyle. Give us an offensive line so our best pass catcher doesn't have to stay in and block. I think you have to be given a fair shot before it can be said that you failed. McNabb was clearly not.

But I digress. Hail to the Washington Shanigans.

You haven't been watching football for very long have you?

I know this post is old but it made me lol.

[GoSkins561]

No way I would start DMAC5, when is the last time we pt up 30 on another team and went 4 for 4 in the red zone. Granted Rex is NOT the answer, but the team came out of the huddle quicker, scored more points and looked more efficient. Consistency has always been a problem for Grossman...we will see what he does this week. At this point the season is over other than seeing who will be here next year and looking at some players in a game situation so we know what we have.

After last weeks performance, how do you know Rex is "not" the answer?

[hitmandm]

Limbaugh's take on McPOS- sweet vinatge footage and behind the scenes info

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_122110/content/01125107.guest.html

[Jethrodsp]

I listen to a lot of Redskin's media talk. Everything I hear is bashing Shanahan on his decision to go with Grossman. Well, why not?

...

Mcnabb. Oh yeah he's still an Eagle to me. And Eagles get no respect.

I feel like you just robbed my brain. I could not have laid it out any better.

McNabb is who we thought he was. In the end, his work wasn't up to the Shanahans' standards. Grossman obviously showed Kyle enough in Houston to justify an invitation to Washington. Nothing about the coaching staff's actions this season tell us that Grossman hasn't earned his spot every step of the way. If there is one thing we know, it's that Shanahan holds players accountable to the system.

Mike Shanahan's program: get on it or get out.

Thank goodness for that.

---------- Post added December-22nd-2010 at 11:37 PM ----------

Lets compare McNabb in his 2nd year in a system with that of Grossman and then tell me who gives us the best chance to win!

That's not the way Shanahan does it. He's way smarter than me, probably smarter than you too (maybe not, who knows?). I'll defer to his opinion on who gives him the best chance to win.

There's no sense throwing good money after bad. Admit the miscalcuation, salvage the situation, and move on.

---------- Post added December-22nd-2010 at 11:44 PM ----------

We all know Mcnabb is the better QB. But, Grossman is showing his proficiency in Shanahan's offense and I'm not sure Mcnabb can match it.

Do we?

I would say that this season is a clear indictment of McNabb while Andy Reid is steadily building an impressive resume of offensive output with all kinds of quarterbacks. We can go all the way back to Jay Feely to Kevin Kolb and Michael Vick. Nearly every quarterback who has started in Reid's offense has been productive.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

After last weeks performance, how do you know Rex is "not" the answer?

You may be right, but his inability to be consistant has been his problem. He put up 30 points, but mixed in 3 INT;s and in his career has always done that. My hopes is he can stick around as a capable back up, but his is not an NFL elite QB.

[tshile]

You may be right, but his inability to be consistant has been his problem. He put up 30 points, but mixed in 3 INT;s and in his career has always done that. My hopes is he can stick around as a capable back up, but his is not an NFL elite QB.

how are we suppose to take this seriously?

he didn't have 3ints.

[ross3909]

McNabb has won with his last team so bringing him here means that we will magically become winners also. McNabb is a really good guy so we should be nice to him and let him start if he wants to. Rex Grossman in a past system did not look stellar so that means he will never improve. The fan base was smitten with this McNabb trade loving the fact that they finally had a leader at QB that the rest of the league recognized. Just because he is missing wide open receivers and throwing balls in the dirt does not mean that he doesn't sound any less convincing or polished in his post game pressers. There is no-one on this team that I like more than winning.

[Command The 414]

You may be right, but his inability to be consistant has been his problem. He put up 30 points, but mixed in 3 INT;s and in his career has always done that. My hopes is he can stick around as a capable back up, but his is not an NFL elite QB.

it was 2 int's..but non the less there have been alot of QB's who were very inconsistent early in their careers but then got it together and became very good NFL QB's.....Vinny Testaverde comes to mind....with TB he was horrible, but once he got his shot in Cleveland he made the most of it....then in Bmore then in NY with the Jets.....granted you can't take 2 QB's and say because 1 did it the other will as well...but given his shot you never know...in fact I would venture to say despite McNabb putting up well over 3000yds passing this season that Grossman could very well have done that and had more TD's and less int's......(but fumbles is another story...LOL)

[NavyDave]

Nope I prefer his current situation so we can get jack squat for him in the off season.

A high 2nd and a high 3rd or 4th rounder for a one year rental and most smart teams will either offer something in the 5th round range or just wait until we have to cut him.