Can Anyone Justify Starting Mcnabb?

[Skinzfever2010]

The OP made some good points, but I agree with this^^^ much more.

So, I have a question. When the Skins are down 21-0 at half-time with Rex throwing a pickle or two what do you do? Stick with Rex or insert McNabb?

No we are going to put that sorry ass QB we saw in the preaseason in against a Defense that is out for blood.

Smh, wow...

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[MartyMcfly]

Great thread, can you see this board if we beat Dallas, everyone will love the decision, and Shanny and boy

First of all, while I will root for this team no matter what and am certainly going to root for us this weekend, I don't think there is any way we win this week. I don't buy the players not playing hard because the locker room division. Players in the NFL play for themselves. They are trying out for their contracts. They won't just quit. I just think that the Cowboys are sadly right now a better team..especially when we throw Rex out there.

Even if somehow we win this week an Rex puts up Brady numbers, I will still be pissed at how Shanny handled this situation. It represents a disregard for this offseason. Players around the league are pissed about this. It hurts our credibility amongst players not to mention the draft pick implications with Arizona and Minny. The whole "only play the players who are performing well" idea is good in theory, but it neglects the implications of those decisions.

I think what was clear from Shanahan's presser is that we are drafting a QB this offseason. It would have been nice to get a fourth for mcnabb and add depth at the OL or DL. Also, you gotta think that starting over at QB hurts our chances with VJ and other free agents. WRs want to play for teams that have stability at quarterback and coaches who respect personnel.

[Bangee7]

I'm a long time ES poster but this thread makes me want to stop frequenting this forum. Yikes.

Why did this post set you off? I thought it was well done and honestly to me, it asks a valid logical question.

I personally agree that McNabb hasn't earned additional playing time. We simply need to have more consisitency on offense.

I'm sure not saying Grossman is the guy- I don't really like him.

But hey, at least the coaching staff realizes that we have to get better.

Why not see if another QB makes a better progression of reads/makes more accurate throws/extends more drives?

We're 5-8. It's not like we're going to disrupt the momentum!

[gholmesbm]

There have been a number of threads since Shanahan and Allen arrived speculating as to whether we were "rebuilding" or if there was a "we can win now" view. I have always thought it was both, kind of. Clearly there was rebuilding going on - a lot of player turnover, including releasing all your quarterbacks is a good indication of that. However, based on some comments Shanahan made before the season, building a winning attitude in the organisation means believing and working to win each game, which means that every season starts with playoff expectations. The organisation is not going to make excuses for a poor season before it starts by using the "rebuilding" tag, because that lets everyone off the hook in performance and the fan base needs to have the hope and expectations that drive our obsession.

To me this whole episode is confirmation of the above. We traded for McNabb to have a proven veteran winner at QB, to help bring the right leadership and winning attitude to the team as leader. I don't know if his contract situation, with only this year left, factored into the decision. Coach may also have thought a proven winner like McNabb with experience in a West Coast system had the best chance to pick up the new offense quickly and have some success. McNabb has not performed brilliantly. When we re-signed him we left flexibility in his contract for an early exit at a reasonable price (because we are rebuilding). The decision to evaluate where we are with our other QB's for the rest of the season is clearly a step being taken by a Head Coach of a team that is rebuilding. The lack of an ongoing commitment to McNabb also confirms a rebuilding process.

What has been an improvement this year has been the team's level of commitment (ex AH) to off season training, practice etc. that has been instilled. I believe this is a fundamental building block to building a successful team that can win season in and season out. I also think we are getting stronger team performances than our talent would indicate - I think we are limited in talent generally. This is also a good indicator of a key building block.

I have no big problem with this. We are clearly rebuilding in my mind. It is now clear will take a while. We (and Dan) will have to be patient to see if the Shanahan/Allen programme will work out. The offseason will be (again) interesting for us to see what happens. We need to add talent, and we have a lot of older players who will probably not be better next year than they are this year. Definitely rebuilding.

The real test will begin to see what happens next year when we get on the field in the season - are we a better team? Or maybe it will take longer.... (Dan's) patience will not last forever, based on past history.

I think we are are rebuilding in a major way (ever since Shanahan started) - McNabb's benching for a "QB position evaluation" confirms it. And since we are rebuilding, I think the decision is justified for the team.

[MartyMcfly]

We're 5-8. It's not like we're going to disrupt the momentum!

This season doesn't matter. Sure, while many people think McNabb gives us a better shot at winning, that's not what people are upset about. It is about what happens after this season. Even if Grossman runs this system better than McNabb for the last three games, what do we get from that? A starting quarterback for the next five years? Doubtful. I just am having a tough time seeing what the upside of this decision is.

Edit: Before anyone takes this the wrong way. I do not think that McNabb would have been our quarterback for the next five years. I just think that there is minimal benefit from making this decision

[PorkSkins]

Because McNabb gives us a better chance to beat Dallas. We don't have another QB on this team worth looking at. If we would have picked up Bulger then I would concede. But not Grossman over McNabb. And he certainly did not deserve to be demoted to third string. That move in itself proved that it was a move driven by egos.

[HateNMyEyez]

I love how everyone is preaching this is a great move because Mcnabb has played like crap and is a turnover machine. Rex Grossman is a horrible turnover machine. No way he shoulda got promoted to starting Qb. Rex grossman is absolutely terrible, and since the line cant pass protect its gonna be an embarrassment to watch this sunday.

[bigmanindc]

Whats wrong with this situation is the problem is not the QB, its not the Coaching staff (But I must admit both father and son are idiots), and its not Danny boy the problem is the horrific offense line that we have. We keep changinf QBs Coaches etc but we have yet to build a team from the ground up the offensive and defensive line. Look at the Jets they have 5 first round draft pick on there O line thats why an average QB like Mark Sanchez can take a team so far. Look at 2009 stats Mark Sanchez 58.8 Completions, 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 63.0 QB Rating, 9-7 Record Jason Campbell 64.5 Completions, 20 TDs, 15 INTs, 86.4 QB Rating 4-12 Recoed Donovan MsNabb 60.0 Completions, 22 TDs, 10 INTs, 92.9 QB Rating 11-5 Record. Until we start to draft offensive and defensive linemen with our 1st round picks instead of Jersey sellers we will continue to SUCK ASS!!!!!!!!!!

[sontupelo]

Yes, especially when our other option is Grossman!!!

[Skinzfever2010]

Whats wrong with this situation is the problem is not the QB, its not the Coaching staff (But I must admit both father and son are idiots), and its not Danny boy the problem is the horrific offense line that we have. We keep changinf QBs Coaches etc but we have yet to build a team from the ground up the offensive and defensive line. Look at the Jets they have 5 first round draft pick on there O line thats why an average QB like Mark Sanchez can take a team so far. Look at 2009 stats Mark Sanchez 58.8 Completions, 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 63.0 QB Rating, 9-7 Record Jason Campbell 64.5 Completions, 20 TDs, 15 INTs, 86.4 QB Rating 4-12 Recoed Donovan MsNabb 60.0 Completions, 22 TDs, 10 INTs, 92.9 QB Rating 11-5 Record. Until we start to draft offensive and defensive linemen with our 1st round picks instead of Jersey sellers we will continue to SUCK ASS!!!!!!!!!!

Bingo

"Draft Luck" "Draft Newton"

Why? so they can become the next Jason Campbell or Patrick Ramsey. We need to rebuild the offensive line. We should have started doing this after the 2005 season.

[SWFLSkins]

Unless proven otherwise, McNabb>>>>Grossman. But maybe this is a move to see what he has there and if he is worth keeping for next year. I still say McNabb returns and Rex is goner.

[ncr2h]

I love how everyone is preaching this is a great move because Mcnabb has played like crap and is a turnover machine. Rex Grossman is a horrible turnover machine. No way he shoulda got promoted to starting Qb. Rex grossman is absolutely terrible, and since the line cant pass protect its gonna be an embarrassment to watch this sunday.

In Grossman's season with the most turnovers, he had 20 ints and 8 fumbles.

In 13 games this season, Mcnabb has 15 ints and 10 fumbles. AKA Mcnabb is on pace to have a more turnover-happy season than Grossman's worst. THAT'S some perspective on how bad Mcnabb has been.

[Dblock804]

So we are just gonna lay down for Dallas? WTF are all of you thinking? DM gives us the best chance to finish over the Cowboys, and that's ok with me.

[Skinzfever2010]

In Grossman's season with the most turnovers, he had 20 ints and 8 fumbles.

In 13 games this season, Mcnabb has 15 ints and 10 fumbles. AKA Mcnabb is on pace to have a more turnover-happy season than Grossman's worst.

Make sure your in the game thread Sunday. lol I just want to see you what you say when Rex is behind that line.

Forget about what his stupid ass did when he got in against Detroit. Just be in the game thread Sunday, ok?

[THEREALTOR1]

Why did this post set you off? I thought it was well done and honestly to me, it asks a valid logical question.

I personally agree that McNabb hasn't earned additional playing time. We simply need to have more consisitency on offense.

I'm sure not saying Grossman is the guy- I don't really like him.

But hey, at least the coaching staff realizes that we have to get better.

Why not see if another QB makes a better progression of reads/makes more accurate throws/extends more drives?

We're 5-8. It's not like we're going to disrupt the momentum!

I forget every now and then that if you read through enough ****, you'll actually find someone that "gets it". Good job Bangee :thumbsup:

MS has already said that 5 can't show him anymore than he already has. He didn't say he sucked, he didn't say he's being let go, or traded, or anything at all in fact, regarding that matter. He simply said that now that we are mathematically eliminated from "teh paloffs", he's wants to use this time to see what Grossman, and possibly even Beck have to show him. In a sense he's running a series of tests over the next few weeks to see if the problem is the O scheme/play caller/head coach, or is the problem the personnel on the field not understanding/getting this offense. Simplified: "Do we keep the personnel and throw out the system, or do we keep the system and throw out the personnel?" There's no way in hell to know which one's broken, unless you test both of them seperate from one another.

I think its a great move, and honestly it shows alot of flexibility on his part. He could just simply say "they system is fine, it's the player that can't execute it", which may actually be the case if Rex/Beck go out there and run it more efficiently than 5. However, if we don't see any difference from what we've seen thus far (just a different player #), than it might be an indication that the system itself needs to be reconsidered.

Thats my :2cents: anyway :whoknows:

[Skinzfever2010]

13 games and showed you everything you have to see? 13 games behind that line with no weapons?

13 games for two draft picks?

Some of you love drinking his kool-aid

If Donovan is being graded on a what have you done for me lately scale, than Michael Shanahan is too. Mike hasn't been "great" since he left Denver. Honeymoon over. Results mother ****er

If after 13 games DONOVAN IS A FAIL

AFTER 13 GAMES SHANAHAN IS TOO

kill the double standards

[sontupelo]

I'm going to sum up why McNabb should start with one word. GROSSMAN!!!!

[Chicken Fried]

Sexy Rexy hasn't thrown a TD pass in two years. What in the name of all that is holy make you think he can do any better with the offense we're currently fielding?

McNabb gives us the best chance to win, therefore he should be starting.

McNabb's 1 TD per game or thereabouts isn't helping the cause either.

[TimmySmith]

He is best QB on the roster?

[skinnyfan57]

Here's the justification... we just drafted him with a 2nd and 4th round pick. If he's struggling, we need to go one of two ways.

1. You think there's a chance he can still be our guy so we keep him in, put some pieces around him, give him another year to learn the system, and hope he improves.

2. We've decided he can't get it done. We need to recoup some of what we gave up or else we are setting ourselves back big time. Keep him in, try to pad his stats, make it look like we intend to keep him.

[irishgizzy]

Do you know what I find incredibly ironic? The very last play that McNabb had as a redskin was throwing a touchdown pass with eight seconds to go to tie the game (assuming we had made an extra point). He actually engineered an incredible two minute drill in the driving rain.

And now we bench him for the season in favor of Grossman. For Dallas week no less. Absolutely unbelievable.

[Skinzfever2010]

Do you know what I find incredibly ironic? The very last play that McNabb had as a redskin was throwing a touchdown pass with eight seconds to go to tie the game (assuming we had made an extra point). He actually engineered an incredible two minute drill in the driving rain.

And now we bench him for the season in favor of Grossman. For Dallas week no less. Absolutely unbelievable.

lol Welcome to the club! He benched him after a solid ass game.

Coach you should have benched gano!

[andboom]

Sexy Rexy hasn't thrown a TD pass in two years. What in the name of all that is holy make you think he can do any better with the offense we're currently fielding?

McNabb gives us the best chance to win, therefore he should be starting.

McNabb may give us the best chance to win among our current QB's. Yet, he's not winning games. That being said, I don't see any reason to continue to play him. Would I have pulled him? No, I would have let him finish the year. However, I have no problem with them benching him at least to see if we need to get rid of our backups as well. You want your backup to be able to pick up where the starter left off and continue to carry the team, well lets see if that can happen (not a lot to live up to). Also, keep in mind how many games McNabb has thrown for more than 1 TD. Only twice. Once in the blowout to the eagles (who let him) and this past week against TB.

This being said I really don't see any reason to field a guy with some of his stats. #5 has the 7th most passing attempts in the NFL with 472. He is 20th in TD's and the list below him isn't stellar (or haven't played every game)

C. Henne 385 attempts 13 TD

Shaun Hill 351 att 13 TD

Kitna 261 att 13 TD Kitna, a backup, comes off the bench and throws 1 less TD than our starter with 211 less pass attempts.

Roethlisberger 291 att 13 td

Hasselbeck 423/12

Alex Smith 298/12

Romo sits to pee 213/11

Campbell 236/10

Favre 351/10

D. Anderson 327/7

Clausen 224/1

Among this listed group (with less TD's than McNabb) they average 1 TD pass every 29 passes. Eliminate Clausen and it is 1 TD for every 27.5 attempts. McNabb has 1 TD for every 33 passes. This may seem insignificant, but it just shows his mediocrity. For those interested, the person above him with pass attempts is Bradford he has 474 attempts 17 TD's (Roughly 1TD: 29Passes) and below him is Mat Schaub with 465 Att and 20 TD (1TD: 23.25 passes)

The average number of attempts (of all qbs stats on nfl.com) is 387 attempts with an average of 17 TD's. He is well above the pass trys and below production for those. also the average posts a td every 22.75 (ish) passes.

Say what you want about grossman, if he as average that is better than what we have been fielding. if he is worse, at least we know we need to look for a good backup too lol.

Hail

[FrFan]

I'm not a fan of McNabb but he is better than Grossman (leadership, compare career stats, and ask Bears fans). Shanahan decided to humiliate him by downgrading him to 3rd stringer, I would like to know why Beck is even a better option ?

[Mad Mike]

By benching mcnabb we killed any chance we had at getting draft picks for him this offseason. If your decision is to part ways with mcnabb then that's fine. I trust his call there, but at least try to get some value for him. Grossman is not the future of our franchise. Doesn't make sense to play him when that decision will cost us draft picks.

So you think a GM is going to give us better draft picks for him because they watch him suck for the last three games? :doh:

Shanahan is doing what people have been screaming at coaches here to do for years... evaluating talent in the last meaningless games we have.

McNabb had his chance. He did not earn the spot. He's gone. It's time to evaluate the other QBs we have to see where we stand. Can Grossman start? Will he be our number 2 next year? Should we let him go as well? What about Beck? How does the rest of the team respond to another QB?

It's time to move on.