Redstate: Mexico is America's Next Afghanistan

[GibbsFactor]

The question we should be asking is, are we at fault enough to send our boys and girls down to the slaughter. I say no. Last thing we need right now is another war we can't win in a country that doesn't want us there fighting a group of insurgents that you cannot tell apart from the locals.

Like I said, when the violence erupts on this side of the border, that's probably when we'll get in line.

I'm not absolving the US of blame. I think your 99% is about right . I cringe, however, when I read how we're at fault because we are a consumer. When you extrapolate that logic, it doesn't hold up.

...

That's a pretty isolationist point of view there Zoony.

[Destino]

The question we should be asking is, are we at fault enough to send our boys and girls down to the slaughter. I say no. Last thing we need right now is another war we can't win in a country that doesn't want us there fighting a group of insurgents that you cannot tell apart from the locals.

Like I said, when the violence erupts on this side of the border, that's probably when we'll get in line.

I'm not absolving the US of blame. I think your 99% is about right . I cringe, however, when I read how we're at fault because we are a consumer. When you extrapolate that logic, it doesn't hold up.

...

The first thing that needs to be done is Mexico needs to be told "as bloody as you want to make this the US will not stand in the way". That means a veto in the UN if they start lining people up and shooting them dead and the UN wants to make noise about it. The gloves need to come off and the US is the first state chirping about it when they do anywhere on the planet.

Second we need to realize that if Mexico loses this war the US won't have an easy time of it. Cartels with all day to subvert US officials will make substantial in roads and corruption once present is not easily removed. This isn't about responsibility, this is about recognizing that Osama has nothing on the people seeking to establish a unrestricted base of operations on our border.

[twa]

This theory ignores the fact Mexico is perfectly capable of handling the problems,in fact it is a needed step for them to advance.

It's gonna be ugly though.

[GibbsFactor]

This theory ignores the fact Mexico is perfectly capable of handling the problems,in fact it is a needed step for them to advance.

It's gonna be ugly though.

Agreed. Mexico is fully capable of handling this themselves. But why bother when big brother to the north will just take care of it for them.

[shk75]

This theory ignores the fact Mexico is perfectly capable of handling the problems,in fact it is a needed step for them to advance.

It's gonna be ugly though.

Yeah I agree too this is part of the process they have to go through. Look at Chile just 30 years ago it was in the process of a dirty war with the US operating the School of the Americas and playing a part in removing Allende, yet Chile was able to overcome this themselves and are now a model nation of the Americas. Mexico needs to go through this process to weed out the corrupt officials. Hopefully someone will be able to spark change within and the government that comes out of this process will help lead the resurgence of Mexico.

[zoony]

That's a pretty isolationist point of view there Zoony.

Not at all, to Destino's point above, there is plenty we can do in terms of diplomatic support. And most importantly, we can make it clear to the rest of the world that taking advantage of a weakened Mexico would not be tolerated...

[Koolblue13]

This w0uld be a great step t0wards a NAU.

[JMS]

We can give you CLEAN WATER AND A LOT OIL.

Just send the toughest mofos to decimate the cartels and a big of course, the thieves with tuxedos called: politicians.

We already got your oil... We got it as part of NAFTA., water is interesting... We definitely need water out west....

I think military anexation is unlikely.... It's going to be a peaceful unification with Mexico not becomeing the 51 state but likely many states. First we will create a free enterprise zone, next we will create free migration, finally when as many mexican's are voting in Mexican elections from homes in the US; they'll vote to enter the union retaining most of their sovegnty as states rights....

The ultimate reward for unificaiton with Mexico isn't oil or land. It's the population and the infrastructure contracts. It expands the US population and makes us more compeditive against India and China which are both set to eclipse us economically solely based upon their population sizes. Also it will take trillions of dollars to bring Mexico up to our infrastructure standards. US industries as well as Mexican industry wants a piece of that pie....

As for Mexican Corruption... Mexican corruption can't hold a candle to American corruption. Mexican corrup officials argue about millions. American corrupt officials argue about Trillions... They just do it with a pen instead of a gun.

---------- Post added December-14th-2010 at 12:20 PM ----------

Not at all, to Destino's point above, there is plenty we can do in terms of diplomatic support. And most importantly, we can make it clear to the rest of the world that taking advantage of a weakened Mexico would not be tolerated...

Who in the world do you think doesn't understand that? Hasn't understood that since the 1840's..

---------- Post added December-14th-2010 at 12:22 PM ----------

This theory ignores the fact Mexico is perfectly capable of handling the problems,in fact it is a needed step for them to advance.

It's gonna be ugly though.

I think you are ignoring the fact that we are playing a significant role in their destabilization...I don't know if it's a plan to justify military action... I don't think it is. I think it's a messyness associated with the huge effort underway to draw our economies closer and closer together.

[#98QBKiller]

Not at all, to Destino's point above, there is plenty we can do in terms of diplomatic support. And most importantly, we can make it clear to the rest of the world that taking advantage of a weakened Mexico would not be tolerated...

I definitely agree with this.

And I've been trying to read up on the Mexican Drug War and what I got from the little research I've done is that a lot of this is the result of the fall of Pablo Escobar and the decline of the Colombian drug cartels. i.e. the Mexican drug cartels gained power and became the preferred route to smuggle cocaine into the U.S. when the U.S decided to crackdown on Colombia's routes into Florida, therefore putting the drug trade even closer to home.

So I'm wondering (if this is true) then how much effect is marijuana really having on the violence in Mexico? I know that a lot of marijuana comes from Mexico but wouldn't cocaine be the main culprit, considering its street value is so much higher than that of marijuana?

If that's the case, wouldn't it make sense to decriminalize the possession and the growing of personal amounts of marijuana in the states (considering where we're already at with the state of medical marijuana) and spend the dollars that we save to clamp down on the cocaine trade?

[JMS]

The first thing that needs to be done is Mexico needs to be told "as bloody as you want to make this the US will not stand in the way". That means a veto in the UN if they start lining people up and shooting them dead and the UN wants to make noise about it. The gloves need to come off and the US is the first state chirping about it when they do anywhere on the planet.

We could turn off the drug cartells in mexico like a light swith. Pass the legalization of MJ or do what many conservatives and liberals have wanted for decades and legalize drugs all together. Mexico's drug cartel problems would be gone in a year.

Second we need to realize that if Mexico loses this war the US won't have an easy time of it. Cartels with all day to subvert US officials will make substantial in roads and corruption once present is not easily removed. This isn't about responsibility, this is about recognizing that Osama has nothing on the people seeking to establish a unrestricted base of operations on our border.

Mexico is feeling the shockwaves associated with an open spicket of economic activity to the US marketplace. If we wanted a pretext to invade, this along with any number of other one would be sufficient.... The deal is military invasion is expensive and leaves hard fealings. We would much rather get them to vote on becoming part of the union. That's coming... When it does we will dispatch the IRS and FBI armed with new legislation down their to clean out the cartels just like we cleaned up Chicago by ending pro-abition.

As it exists however the mexican drug wars on their side of the boarder work to our long term advantage. It makes mexico's people more unhappy with their own corrupt ineffective government... more willing to settle for our own corrupt and ineffective government.

[GibbsFactor]

If that's the case, wouldn't it make sense to decriminalize the possession and the growing of personal amounts of marijuana in the states (considering where we're already at with the state of medical marijuana) and spend the dollars that we save to clamp down on the cocaine trade?

Of course so, which is why it is not an option.

[JMS]

The question we should be asking is, are we at fault enough to send our boys and girls down to the slaughter. I say no. Last thing we need right now is another war we can't win in a country that doesn't want us there fighting a group of insurgents that you cannot tell apart from the locals....

It's the 21st century Manifest Destiny. We are going to go after Canada and central america all the way down to the Canal... We will do this not by military conquest, mainly. We will do this by destabilization and absorbing countries which frankly will want to be absorbed....

The first step is tieing them to us economically... make it so isolation from the US is unthinkable (NAFTA)... The next step is open our boarders and markets even more; not unlike which exists today between states.... After this absorbtion becomes a forgone conclusion....Not by military conquest; but by popular vote.... The mexican elites won't mind, cause they'll become American elites. The mexican people won't mind because they like the US; and their standard of living will go up. Us busines won't mind because it will mean trillions of new contracts.... The US people might mind; but the US people traditionally have only about 40% turn out in votes, and by the time this plan comes to fruition we will have about 20-25% hispanic americans ingrained into that equation.

Basically it's all good... The only negative is; the plan is bing written and implemented today and the public on both sides of the boarder are oblivious.

[GibbsFactor]

It's the 21st century Manifest Destiny. We are going to go after Canada and central america all the way down to the Canal... We will do this not by military conquest, mainly. We will do this by destabilization and absorbing countries which frankly will want to be absorbed....

The first step is tieing them to us economically... make it so isolation from the US is unthinkable (NAFTA)... The next step is open our boarders and markets even more; not unlike which exists today between states.... After this absorbtion becomes a forgone conclusion....Not by military conquest; but by popular vote.... The mexican elites won't mind, cause they'll become American elites. The mexican people won't mind because they like the US; and their standard of living will go up. Us busines won't mind because it will mean trillions of new contracts.... The US people might mind; but the US people traditionally have only about 40% turn out in votes, and by the time this plan comes to fruition we will have about 20-25% hispanic americans ingrained into that equation.

Basically it's all good... The only negative is; the plan is bing written and implemented today and the public on both sides of the boarder are oblivious.

What is this NAU or in your case AU you speak of? Sounds tin foil hatty.

[Koolblue13]

What is this NAU or in your case AU you speak of? Sounds tin foil hatty.

S0mething f0rmer Mexican Pres F0x sp0ke 0penly ab0ut w0rking 0n with Bush.

It w0uld help c0mpete with China financially, that's f0r sure.

[#98QBKiller]

S0mething f0rmer Mexican Pres F0x sp0ke 0penly ab0ut w0rking 0n with Bush.

It w0uld help c0mpete with China financially, that's f0r sure.

Are you typing all of your "o's" as "0's" on purpose?

[GibbsFactor]

S0mething f0rmer Mexican Pres F0x sp0ke 0penly ab0ut w0rking 0n with Bush.

It w0uld help c0mpete with China financially, that's f0r sure.

I do recall that interview with dear Mr. Fox.

gYGrn0hZlCQ

Bet he lives in a space ship, huh,KB? I mean, what a crazy ole kook. Who does he think he is? The former President of Mexico or something?

[Koolblue13]

Are you typing all of your "o's" as "0's" on purpose?

See my sig.

[#98QBKiller]

See my sig.

My bad, sorry to hear that bro...does your keyboard smell like cat piss?

[Koolblue13]

My bad, sorry to hear that bro...does your keyboard smell like cat piss?

The butt0ns all kind 0f stick until I type a bit and all0ws a tad 0f cat piss smell t0 happen. It's disgusting I kn0w.

[#98QBKiller]

The butt0ns all kind 0f stick until I type a bit and all0ws a tad 0f cat piss smell t0 happen. It's disgusting I kn0w.

Sorry man that sucks. I'll stop hijacking the thread now.

[GoSkins561]

This is laughable, yet predicatble. Obviously you struggle with circular logic.

So let me get this straight, because Americans have an insatiable apetite for illegal drugs, we are responsible for the suppliers killing each other and innocents? No, the reason there is a war south of the border is because Mexico has failed as a nation. Mexico has failed.

But but but, according to Obama Admin, the US is responsible for providing 90 percent of the guns in Mexico, so it is our fault, it's all Americas fault.

[DjTj]

The butt0ns all kind 0f stick until I type a bit and all0ws a tad 0f cat piss smell t0 happen. It's disgusting I kn0w.

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[Koolblue13]

$22.99: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-920-000021-Access-Keyboard-600/dp/B000O656FE/

It's a lap t0p. It will be fixed after the h0llidays. S0rry f0r the ann0yance. N0w, back t0 the thread please.

[JMS]

What is this NAU or in your case AU you speak of? Sounds tin foil hatty.

I didn't mention either the NAU or AU. However it's difficult to speak of an organization to combine North and central america into one economic zone without sounding tin foil hatty... Just like the folks discussing the EU in secrecy in the 1970's probable sounded like Crackpots... until you considered the folks who were attendign the meetings.

[GibbsFactor]

I didn't mention either the NAU or AU. However it's difficult to speak of an organization to combine North and central america into one economic zone without sounding tin foil hatty... Just like the folks discussing the EU in secrecy in the 1970's probable sounded like Crackpots... until you considered the folks who were attendign the meetings.

Hey man, just watch that larry king clip with President Fox.