Redstate: Mexico is America's Next Afghanistan

[mardi gras skin]

Then lets end the WOD and have a war on trafficking!

The war shouldn't be on "drugs" or "human trafficking". The "war" should be against organizations who are providing goods and services we deem to be harmful to our society. Cartels. Mafia. Gangs. To them, Heroin and 13 year old slave girls are just commodities that they can provide. They'll supply whatever commodity earns them the greatest profit.

Wether or not you believe drugs or human trafficking or any other illegal commerce should be legal, these organizations should not be a determining factor in our choice to govern ourselves any way we wish.

[CurseReversed]

The war shouldn't be on "drugs" or "human trafficking". The "war" should be against organizations who are providing goods and services we deem to be harmful to our society. Cartels. Mafia. Gangs. To them, Heroin and 13 year old slave girls are just commodities that they can provide. They'll supply whatever commodity earns them the greatest profit.

Wether or not you believe drugs or human trafficking or any other illegal commerce should be legal, these organizations should not be a determining factor in our choice to govern ourselves any way we wish.

Exactly.

While we might be a procuring cause for what is happening in mexico, it does not mean we are responsible or at fault .

It is not our responsibility to choose what should and should not be illegal in our society based on the problems it might cause another nation in stopping those who will try to profit from it.

That does not mean that legalizing or decriminalizing drugs or marijuana wont help or even solve the problem.

Personally I think we should be working towards this, the drug war is a joke and it is causing problems.

Still, even if legalizing is a good solution, it does not mean we should legalize out of any guilt for doing something wrong. It is our right to decide these things and mexico has to handle it's own business.

[SnyderShrugged]

The war shouldn't be on "drugs" or "human trafficking". The "war" should be against organizations who are providing goods and services we deem to be harmful to our society. Cartels. Mafia. Gangs. To them, Heroin and 13 year old slave girls are just commodities that they can provide. They'll supply whatever commodity earns them the greatest profit.

Wether or not you believe drugs or human trafficking or any other illegal commerce should be legal, these organizations should not be a determining factor in our choice to govern ourselves any way we wish.

I feel sad that my attempt at humor failed so miserably

[JMS]

I just wrote a paper on this and basically...

By establishing lenient gun laws, promoting ineffective drug policies, and remaining the primary purchaser of drugs from Mexico, the United States has greatly contributed to the declining security in Mexico and bordering cities within the U.S.

If you fail to realize this then I don't know what to tell you.

Did you paper cover the before and after NAFTA economic issue? Nafta has had the effect of binding something like 80% of the Mexican GNP directly to the United States.. Pull any string and the United States is at the end with regard to Mexico both positive and negative.

---------- Post added December-15th-2010 at 02:02 PM ----------

I love how the simple fact that Mexico failed is proof of the cause of Mexico's failure. Because no nation has ever fallen apart due to forces it couldn't control.

My point isn't that the United States should be blaimed for Mexico's problem. That's a pointless discussion because we are so big and bad economically their is little which goes on in this hemisphere if not the world which doesn't have something to do with us..... If somebody wants to blame us ( soviet union collapse, China assendancy, Japan's lost decade, South Korea's economic sucess )... it's not hard to make a case the US was involved.

My point is we are actively involved in talks to bind Mexico's economy closer and closer to the united states economy. We are also concously or uncounsously both degrading their security, governmental powers, and their population. There is no change to that policy on our end not the good or the bad. The end result there is predictable; and am just saying that end result is something many in the United States wouldn't be all that unhappy with.

[Taylor4Life]

But that's irrelevant for the masses down here, they're struggling everyday trying to survive.

QFT. My wife is actually a dual citizen, and she grew up in DF and I can tell you that she is equally as cynical as you are about her country. It's sad really, but completely understandable.

Have you seen the movie "El Infierno?" It's a great movie about a guy who after twenty years got deported from the US, and went back to his hometown in (Chihuahua I think?) which was completely devastated economically, so he turned to the drug cartels in order to make a living.

We all know that movies exagerate, but it's still a perfect reflection of the realities that many of them face. The lack of economic opportunities for most Mexicans is precisely the reason that the cartels have such an unlimited supply of labor.

[JMS]

We all know that movies exagerate, but it's still a perfect reflection of the realities that many of them face. The lack of economic opportunities for most Mexicans is precisely the reason that the cartels have such an unlimited supply of labor.

Drug cartels really aren't a insurmountable problem if the US really wanted to take care of them. We handled Al Capone, I'm sure we can handle his Doppelgängers in Mexico... Once we really percieve those guys are a problem. We will implement a more realistic drug policy and dry up their source of funds. We cleaned up chicago by legalizing bear and booz. We can clean up the drug cartels with a similar strategy... Heck something like 90% of the violent criminals in US jails are tied to drug today.

---------- Post added December-15th-2010 at 02:57 PM ----------

Then lets end the WOD and have a war on trafficking!

If you ended the War on Drugs you wouldn't need a war on trafficing. That's the entire point. If the United States legalized pot; RJR Nabisco would sell filtered pot cigarettes and American farmers would be growing the stuff by 100 acre parcells. Let the drug wars try to compete with that based on price point.

People wouldn't buy the Mexican pot cause it wouldn't be as good and it would be much more expensive....

The reason to decriminalize drugs are to take it out of the hands of criminals you can't control and put it into the hands of businesmen who you could control.. mostly. Throw in competition and the huge profits and violence all get off the bus.

[Hubbs]

Why Mexico? Why isn't Canada failing? Are we as responsible for Canada's success as we are Mexico's failure?

You can't be serious. You're asking why cartels don't take drugs produced in South America on a long, expensive, and completely pointless trip to Canada before smuggling them in the US, when they can easily get them into the States via Mexico? Really?

Yes, how many countries to the South of Mexico are "de facto cartel ran nations?

How many countries south of Mexico border the US?

[Taylor4Life]

Drug cartels really aren't a insurmountable problem if the US really wanted to take care of them. We handled Al Capone, I'm sure we can handle his Doppelgängers in Mexico... Once we really percieve those guys are a problem. We will implement a more realistic drug policy and dry up their source of funds. We cleaned up chicago by legalizing bear and booz. We can clean up the drug cartels with a similar strategy... Heck something like 90% of the violent criminals in US jails are tied to drug today

Yes, I agree that if the US were to legalize drugs ( and that's a big IF), then that would weaken the cartels, but it would not eliminate them. The lack of economic opportunities for most Mexicans is the root cause of the country's problems, and the kidnapping, extortion, murder for hire, and other illegal enterprises will continue in the absence of the drug trade.

Unfortunately, this is not a problem that the US can solve. Mexicans themselves must demand economic reform and an end to corruption, but as rocazares mentioned, most Mexicans are too preoccupied with getting food on the table to concern themselves with taking political action.

That isn't to say that all Mexicans are totally apathetic to their own plight. I've been to downtown Mexico City's Zocalo, and there is plenty of budding political activism there. It's going to take time, but the opportunity for change is there.

[Cept One]

legalizing weed will not stop anything... Mexican Schwag makes up a very small portion of the market. The cartels are making their money from importing coke, heroin and the production of crystal meth.

[JMS]

Yes, I agree that if the US were to legalize drugs ( and that's a big IF), then that would weaken the cartels, but it would not eliminate them. The lack of economic opportunities for most Mexicans is the root cause of the country's problems, and the kidnapping, extortion, murder for hire, and other illegal enterprises will continue in the absence of the drug trade.

Drugs, Corruption, and the Economy. We can do a number on two of the three before unification. I think corruption is systemic in most countries; if you can isolate it into white collar crime rather than violent crime; it costs more but it's not as obvious. Our corrupt politicians can likely give the mexican politicians pointers on this too.

Unfortunately, this is not a problem that the US can solve. Mexicans themselves must demand economic reform and an end to corruption, but as rocazares mentioned, most Mexicans are too preoccupied with getting food on the table to concern themselves with taking political action.

It's all about what's barable and what's not. Currently it sucks but it's barrable. If it becomes unbarable folks will make it a priority. Their is no Mexican solution ot the problem. Their is only joint solutions to a jointly created problem.

That isn't to say that all Mexicans are totally apathetic to their own plight. I've been to downtown Mexico City's Zocalo, and there is plenty of budding political activism there. It's going to take time, but the opportunity for change is there.

Mexico has changed significantly in my lifetime. It's going to change even more significantly in the next 40 years. I think what you are seeing now with the crime and corruption is not so much systemic as it is the result of a changing economy. The US and all mature economies have gone through this stage.

---------- Post added December-15th-2010 at 04:04 PM ----------

legalizing weed will not stop anything... Mexican Schwag makes up a very small portion of the market. The cartels are making their money from importing coke, heroin and the production of crystal meth.

Pot is the biggest cash crop of the illegal drug trade. Mexico is the biggest supplier of Pot to the American market.

But I think they should legalize coke, heroin and crystal meth too... Do it like Brussels. Make folks who want to use heroin go down to the local community run drug facility.. charge them $5 and give them some pink jammies and let them have at it. No need to knock over a gas station for $5...Take the miami vice right out of it. It's not cool, make it kind of pathetic. Which it ultimately is anyway.

[Cept One]

Mexico is the biggest supplier of Pot to the American market.

maybe 20yrs ago... but in 2010 high grade Cannabis rules the market and it is not coming from Mexico.

[artmonkforHOF]

I get where this comes from, as Canada has a neighbour to the South that is getting out of hand as well. 3% of the population is either incarcerated or under supervision, debt- both personal and national- are almost out of control, health care is a farce as this country is the only "developed" nation in the world that still has high infant mortality rates and the shortest average life span, their government is corrupt and is powerless puppet to those really in power, multinational corporations and to top it all off, the economy shows no signs of recovery and to top it all off, they let all their citizens carry guns! Before things get any worse in that country, Canada will need to intervene, to stop the people from killing each other once their economy dries up and are resorting to stealing anything of value at gunpoint. Yeah things are so bad in the USA that I am not sure if it is past the breaking point, it might be too late to save.

See, anyone can make an ignorant statement about another country and still weave in some part-truths to make it seem believable. I am not a good writer, so some might not think my statement to be believable, but I hope I made my point clear enough that Americans, or anyone for that matter, should not be deciding the fate of other nations.

[JMS]

maybe 20yrs ago... but in 2010 high grade Cannabis rules the market and it is not coming from Mexico.

Nope, Today. The Mexican weed has gotten better. Mexico is not only the top foreign producer of Pot for the United States; it's one of the top two producers of Pot in the world. Along with other drugs like heroine and Meth.

major drug-producing nation; cultivation of opium poppy in 2007 rose to 6,900 hectares yielding a potential production of 18 metric tons of pure heroin, or 50 metric tons of "black tar" heroin, the dominant form of Mexican heroin in the western United States; marijuana cultivation increased to 8,900 hectares in 2007 and yielded a potential production of 15,800 metric tons; government conducts the largest independent illicit-crop eradication program in the world; continues as the primary transshipment country for US-bound cocaine from South America, with an estimated 90% of annual cocaine movements toward the US stopping in Mexico; major drug syndicates control the majority of drug trafficking throughout the country; producer and distributor of ecstasy; significant money-laundering center; major supplier of heroin and largest foreign supplier of marijuana and methamphetamine to the US market (2007)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2086.html

Mexico, Paraguay World’s Top Marijuana Producers

http://thefreshscent.com/2008/12/01/mexico-paraguay-worlds-top-marijuana-producers/

---------- Post added December-15th-2010 at 04:37 PM ----------

I get where this comes from, as Canada has a neighbour to the South that is getting out of hand as well. 3% of the population is either incarcerated or under supervision, debt- both personal and national- are almost out of control, health care is a farce as this country is the only "developed" nation in the world that still has high infant mortality rates and the shortest average life span, their government is corrupt and is powerless puppet to those really in power, multinational corporations and to top it all off, the economy shows no signs of recovery and to top it all off, they let all their citizens carry guns! Before things get any worse in that country, Canada will need to intervene, to stop the people from killing each other once their economy dries up and are resorting to stealing anything of value at gunpoint. Yeah things are so bad in the USA that I am not sure if it is past the breaking point, it might be too late to save.

Pretty funny... half the things you think are bad about this country, most Americans embrace. Guns, healthcare (broken), GOP and Dem infighting stalemating the government....

I would correct three things though... (1) short lifespan is mostly due to violent crime in innner city not systemic healthcare problem... (2) Our economy is growing today, and next year just in time for the run up to the next Presidential election it will be growing at about 4.2% which is very healthy.. (3) While the United States is certainly a debtor nation.. Looks like Canada's even worse off according the the head of the bank of Canada; Canadians are borrowing more than Americans and at a much higher rate.

Indeed, economists like Mr. Guatieri and consumer advocates marvel that even as the debt-to-income ratio in the United States, while still high, has fallen back to pre-crisis levels, Canada’s keeps rising.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/carney-warns-about-consumer-debt/article1831232/

See, anyone can make an ignorant statement about another country and still weave in some part-truths to make it seem believable. I am not a good writer, so some might not think my statement to be believable, but I hope I made my point clear enough that Americans, or anyone for that matter, should not be deciding the fate of other nations.

You are a good writer.. not a good reader though. My point isn't that America will invade and absorb Mexico. My point is Mexico will petition the US for statehood; likely several. Canada isn't that far behind either. IT's already true that our economies are so intertwined that they could not be broken appart. We are already in talks to make an EU style free enterprise zone. A little more turbulence in Mexico and a few more Mexican voters with deul citizenship in the US... It's a done deal. Say 30 years.

Today Hispanics are the #1 minority in the US.. 15% or 45 million folks... Most of those guys are Mexican too. Hell their are only 100 million folks in Mexico. It really won't be too long before there are as many or more Mexican citizens voting in Mexican elections inside of the United States than their are in Mexico. We get another round of amnesty; then sit for 10-20 years; we'll be there...

Canada's economy is better than Mexico's and it's better run too. But their union is much more fragile (Quebec) and their even more dependent upon the US than Mexico economically. Canada's going to come over too eventually. Not by our choosing; it will be your choosing. The most likely senario is Quebeck succedes and the resulting two states are not viable. eventually both partition to join the union. Before that happens we will have open boarders and basically free immigration and trade for a decade or two.

[mardi gras skin]

You can't be serious. You're asking why cartels don't take drugs produced in South America on a long, expensive, and completely pointless trip to Canada before smuggling them in the US, when they can easily get them into the States via Mexico? Really?

How many countries south of Mexico border the US?

I have no idea how you got that from what I said.

[Hubbs]

You asked why Mexico and not Canada. I thought I was providing an answer. What were you actually asking?

[Cept One]

Sorry but i don't trust anything the CIA has to say about drugs... Importing cannabis is harder and more expensive than any other drug due to the fact that it has a large volume to weight ratio and has a strong odor. This is why Mexican cannabis is transported in compressed bricks.

the majority of the cannabis in the US is not the compressed garbage pictured above

[Taylor4Life]

Drugs, Corruption, and the Economy. We can do a number on two of the three before unification. I think corruption is systemic in most countries; if you can isolate it into white collar crime rather than violent crime; it costs more but it's not as obvious. Our corrupt politicians can likely give the mexican politicians pointers on this too.

The only thing that the US can do right now is to send money and give advice to the Mexican government. I'm not sure sending money to such a corrupt insititution would help matters much, anyway.

It has no authority to clean up corruption in Mexico, and any talk of actual unification is purely speculative. The Americas are much different from Europe, and an 'EU'ification would be a much tougher sell here than it was over there.

It's all about what's barable and what's not. Currently it sucks but it's barrable. If it becomes unbarable folks will make it a priority. Their is no Mexican solution ot the problem. Their is only joint solutions to a jointly created problem.

I don't think unbearable conditions bring about revolution, but rather emerging ideas of freedom and equality that usually spring from an enlightened middle class, which is what occurred prior to the French Revolution. These kinds of changes would surely require a Mexican solution.

[twa]

He did stipulate imported

[mardi gras skin]

You asked why Mexico and not Canada. I thought I was providing an answer. What were you actually asking?

You seem sure that our laws concerning illegal drugs are the cause of the cartels. You said that mexico is "falling apart due to forces it can't control," and if the US didn't exist, Mexico wouldn't be a cartel run nation.

My question was, why is Mexico failing as a state because of our drug laws but Canada manages thrive. Obviously, our drug policy doesn't create an intractable situation for both our neighbors.

[rocazares]

QFT. My wife is actually a dual citizen, and she grew up in DF and I can tell you that she is equally as cynical as you are about her country. It's sad really, but completely understandable.

Have you seen the movie "El Infierno?" It's a great movie about a guy who after twenty years got deported from the US, and went back to his hometown in (Chihuahua I think?) which was completely devastated economically, so he turned to the drug cartels in order to make a living.

We all know that movies exagerate, but it's still a perfect reflection of the realities that many of them face. The lack of economic opportunities for most Mexicans is precisely the reason that the cartels have such an unlimited supply of labor.

It's not pure cynicism or the feeling to bash just for bash. Some times grow up here makes us cold persons.

My example, I love my country but I love Tenochtitlan not this mejico, not this country never-happen-anything.

Maybe she know this, this streets are like a big war scenario, every body hates every body. Why? I don't know. The only thing I know is every single mexican person who has the conduct of a first world person wants to flee right away.

El infierno, ohhh great movie, a satirical movie with the truth about this country for about ... 80 years, I have 32 years old.

Saludos a ambos.

Back to the topic.

This economy is tied 100% to yours economy, if you have hard times, we have harder times, if you have good times we have bad times.

The black market rules a big part of this economy and some big corporations long way back helped little cartels to make some money and that way the money laundering was faster than before. Now the cartels are terrorists overwhelming every federal, military force.

There's no way back, the fix solutions are no longer a possibility, if US' economy will absoofrb us in a short period of time, a lot of work must be done.

[Hubbs]

You seem sure that our laws concerning illegal drugs are the cause of the cartels. You said that mexico is "falling apart due to forces it can't control," and if the US didn't exist, Mexico wouldn't be a cartel run nation.

My question was, why is Mexico failing as a state because of our drug laws but Canada manages thrive. Obviously, our drug policy doesn't create an intractable situation for both our neighbors.

And when I answer that it's pointless for the many, many drugs grown in every country south of our border to travel to Canada before coming here, you say I haven't answered your question.

It's a matter of scale. Of course drugs are grown in Canada and smuggled into the US. But way, way more drugs are smuggled through Mexico. It's the difference between a million-dollar industry and a billion-dollar industry. When you up the scale, you also up both the number of people who are willing to produce/smuggle/deal drugs and the length that smugglers are willing go to to move their drugs.

The drug trade isn't big enough in Canada for the Canadian government (with presumed clandestine American assistance) to be unable to keep the industry limited to small-time operations.

Again, please point to a legal industry that's controlled by violent, murderous foreign cartels that send the heads of police officers to police stations as a show of force. Please. Show me these mysterious economic entities that we're apparently incapable of defeating.

[mardi gras skin]

And when I answer that it's pointless for the many, many drugs grown in every country south of our border to travel to Canada before coming here, you say I haven't answered your question.

So your point is, if Columbia and Peru happened to be on the other side of Canada, the cartels would rule Canada like they do Mexico. Is that right?

Again, please point to a legal industry that's controlled by violent, murderous foreign cartels that send the heads of police officers to police stations as a show of force. Please. Show me these mysterious economic entities that we're apparently incapable of defeating.

Hubbs, the cartels are pulling down $15 to $20 billion dollars a year dealing in human slavery and that number is rapidly rising. Even if they don't kidnap the victim, children are sold for as little as $100 in some parts of the country so its low overhead. Its a major revenue stream for the cartels. Not to mention the income generated through extortion, theft, smuggling, ransom, piracy, arms trafficking, racketeering, etc.

Do you understand what I'm saying? If you think legalizing heroine and cocaine and pot will kill off the cartels, you're living in a fantasy world. The Mexican economy is dependent on illegal commerce and the cartels will meet that need. They will adapt.

If you want to make drugs legal based on your libertarian principles, that's fine. But pointing to the cartels as a reason for us to make cocaine legal is wrong on many levels.

[Hubbs]

So your point is, if Columbia and Peru happened to be on the other side of Canada, the cartels would rule Canada like they do Mexico. Is that right?

It goes beyond two countries, but yes, that's essentially what I'm saying.

Hubbs, the cartels are pulling down $15 to $20 billion dollars a year dealing in human slavery and that number is rapidly rising. Even if they don't kidnap the victim, children are sold for as little as $100 in some parts of the country so its low overhead. Its a major revenue stream for the cartels. Not to mention the income generated through extortion, theft, smuggling, ransom, piracy, arms trafficking, racketeering, etc.

Do you understand what I'm saying? If you think legalizing heroine and cocaine and pot will kill off the cartels, you're living in a fantasy world. The Mexican economy is dependent on illegal commerce and the cartels will meet that need. They will adapt.

If you want to make drugs legal based on your libertarian principles, that's fine. But pointing to the cartels as a reason for us to make cocaine legal is wrong on many levels.

Of course they have other sources of revenue. So do street gangs. So did the gangsters of the 1930's. But that fact has absolutely nothing to do with our ability to choke off a major, major source of revenue that would cripple the cartels like a baseball bat to the kneecap. If "they have other sources of revenue" is a good reason to not eliminate the sources we can eliminate, then we shouldn't ever do anything to prevent black market organizations from making money, since they'll always have more than one way of making money.

Honestly, if that's your best argument, then you're bringing absolutely nothing to the table.

[mardi gras skin]

Honestly, if that's your best argument, then you're bringing absolutely nothing to the table.

Come back to reality, Hubbs. Your position is that we should make all drugs legal. No one of consequence is interested in bringing anything to your table.

[JMS]

Sorry but i don't trust anything the CIA has to say about drugs... Importing cannabis is harder and more expensive than any other drug due to the fact that it has a large volume to weight ratio and has a strong odor. This is why Mexican cannabis is transported in compressed bricks.

the majority of the cannabis in the US is not the compressed garbage pictured above

You don't like the CIA saying Mexico is the #1 foreign producer of pot for the american market....

How about the New York Times?

Despite huge enforcement actions on both sides of the Southwest border, the Mexican marijuana trade is more robust — and brazen — than ever, law enforcement officials say. Mexican drug cartels routinely transported industrial-size loads of marijuana in 2008, excavating new tunnels and adopting tactics like ramp-assisted smuggling to get their cargoes across undetected.

....

For the cartels, “marijuana is the king crop,” said Special Agent Rafael Reyes, the chief of the Mexico and Central America Section of the Drug Enforcement Administration. “It consistently sustains its marketability and profitability.”

Marijuana trafficking continues virtually unabated in the United States, even as intelligence reports suggest the declining availability of heroin, cocaine and other hard drugs that require extensive smuggling operations.

.....

Mr. Reyes also noted that Mexican traffickers in the United States were choosing hydroponic marijuana, which is more potent, profitable and easier to hide because it can be grown year round with sunlamps. (A pound of midgrade marijuana sells for about $750 in Los Angeles, compared with $2,500 to $6,000 for a pound of hydroponic marijuana.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/us/02pot.html?pagewanted=all

The Washington Post?.

Almost all of the marijuana consumed in the multibillion-dollar U.S. market once came from Mexico or Colombia. Now as much as half is produced domestically, often by small-scale operators who painstakingly tend greenhouses and indoor gardens to produce the more potent, and expensive, product that consumers now demand, according to authorities and marijuana dealers on both sides of the border.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/06/AR2009100603847.html

The :LA Times?

10.10.2010

Mexico’s largest-ever pot bust tipped the scales at 134 tons, far more than the original estimate of 110 tons. Mexican authorities believe the dope may have belonged to the country’s most powerful drug cartel.....

Destined for U.S. markets, the dope arrived via land, air and sea routes, according to General Alfonso Duarte Mugica, the military’s top commander in Baja California.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/10/mexicos-largest-pot-bust-even-bigger-than-originally-thought-officials-say.html

The Washington Times?

San Diego drug tunnel had railcar, tons of pot

U.S. authorities have discovered more than 125 clandestine tunnels along the Mexican border since the early 1990s, though many were crude and incomplete.

The passage found Thursday is one of the most sophisticated to date, with an entry shaft in Mexico lined with cinderblocks and the rail system, Unzueta said.

U.S. authorities do not know how long the latest tunnel was operating. Unzueta said investigators began to look into it in June on a tip that emerged from a large bust of marijuana, cocaine and methampethamine by the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department.

( 40 tons of pot found in tunnel bust)..

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/nov/27/san-diego-drug-tunnel-had-railcar-tons-pot/?page=2

---------- Post added December-16th-2010 at 12:01 PM ----------

The only thing that the US can do right now is to send money and give advice to the Mexican government. I'm not sure sending money to such a corrupt insititution would help matters much, anyway.

It has no authority to clean up corruption in Mexico, and any talk of actual unification is purely speculative. The Americas are much different from Europe, and an 'EU'ification would be a much tougher sell here than it was over there.

Today we have the 45 million hispanics mostly mexican in the United States (about 15% of the US population)... There are only 100 million mexicans in mexico... If the McCain amnesty had passed we would have given citizenship to 15-25 million additional illegal hispanics; again most from mexico.... If that happenned in 10-20 years we would have 40 million more illegals here to go along with the 60 million legal duel citizens. Let's also not forget; The McCain amnesty bill targetted Mexico's middle class with targeted visa's, greencards, and paths to US citizenship. That class of mexican citizen are not the folks who traditionally come here. But evidently that's the class of citizen the Senate wants to attract in the coming years. After the next amnesty, the Mexican American population will rival the population size in Mexico itself... It would easily be the most important voting block on both sides fo the boarder, and those people would be voting in both American and Mexican elections... Hell it's already likely the most important voting block on both sides of the boarder.

Now... Today the violence of these Mexican cartels is mostly limited to the mexican side of the boarder. Politicians and police officers being kidnamped, gunned down, even beheaded on video's posted on the internet... American's are oblivious and disinterested. If that happens to an American mayor, an American police cheif, or a federal agent.... If that kind of stuff becomes regular occurances on this side of the boarder; Americans will take notice.. And their will literally be no solution off the table.... The end result will be an even larger mexican voting block in the us.

I don't think unbearable conditions bring about revolution, but rather emerging ideas of freedom and equality that usually spring from an enlightened middle class, which is what occurred prior to the French Revolution. These kinds of changes would surely require a Mexican solution.

I'm not talking about a violent overthrow of the mexican governemnt. I'm talking about a country which is 80-90% dependent upon the United States econoically. A country which will become a leading source of violence in the United States. Potentially a unilateral tightenning of the boarders which will shake the already fragile Mexican economy to it's knees. An ever increasing middle class voice of moderation and union voice growing inside of both political systems ( Mexican and US ) which already might be the most powerful voting block in both nations. I'm talking about Mexico's political leadership caught between a rock and a hard place with huge carrots leading them to handing the reigns of governemnt more and more ot the US....

I'm observing that all the considerable change going on in Mexico is forcing the two economies, peoples, and governments together; and will continue to do so until they are synonomous.

---------- Post added December-16th-2010 at 12:07 PM ----------

He did stipulate imported

I think today Mexican drug cartels are the largest importers of Pot. With about half the entire US pot coming in through mexico via the Mexican Drug Cartels...

But the Mexican drug cartels are also the largest single domestic producers of pot within the United States. They have shifted a sizable amount of their production to inside of the United States. They've found entire vinards in washington state rented by the cartels producing pot. Either way you crack it.. Pot is one of their most important crops, if not most important; and they dominate the US market.... Maybe not as much as they did just four years ago; but they are largest players.