Trading our first round draft pick for multiple picks

[mistertim]

Yea, well, Shannahan knows things we don't. He knows QBs, I'm guessing he worked out bradford/met him? and if he felt it was worth it to move up, then I'd agree with him.

I'm just saying some folks don't put much thought into it when they scream for the #1 pick. They want it every year.

Those are fair points and I agree. Shanahan knows things we don't and knows a lot more about QBs and football in general than we do. And I also agree that some people don't put much thought into it when they just yell to trade up for this person or that person. I've generally never been someone who was into trading up.

That being said, I have watched Luck play a lot this year and I personally believe that he is one of those guys that would be worth it. He just looks that good. I'm not a pro scout or coach by any means but I think I know enough to be able to spot certain things and explain why I think this or that. If Shanahan decides to go a different route, he knows more than I do and I would be fine with that. If he decides to try and get Luck then I would certainly understand his reasoning and be good with that too (even if giving up the picks stings).

[Devastate]

I honestly see the pats being a prime candidate for a trade since they have so many picks.. Their late first and mid second for our early first.. That would be awesome

And the fact that we have SO MANY needs that FA alone isn't an option we will have to stockpile picks over the next 2-3 years to help rebuild this team

[hitmandm]

Anyone who thinks McCrap is the answer at 34 is dumber than the Iggle morons who even saw how inaccurate and out of shape he was. Everyone says how he took them to the SB and the Championship games, but I say, how do you know with all the talent around him, a marginally better than average QB wouldn't have won multiple SBs, and because McCrap sucks they won none.

Yes, I have never thought bringing in McCrap was a good idea. But I see teams that identify their QB and have the brass pair to take them or trade up and get them get rewarded. If Shanny identifies an elite QB- and it seems that it is one of the skills he might be good at- we need to trade up and get him regardless of the price. two first, two second....no problem. We will never win a SB drafting Olinemen and ignoring QB. We wasted Samuels and Jansen's careers doing that. Its a QB league. If you dont have one, you have no hope.

[Devastate]

Anyone who thinks McCrap is the answer at 34 is dumber than the Iggle morons who even saw how inaccurate and out of shape he was. Everyone says how he took them to the SB and the Championship games, but I say, how do you know with all the talent around him, a marginally better than average QB wouldn't have won multiple SBs, and because McCrap sucks they won none.

Yes, I have never thought bringing in McCrap was a good idea. But I see teams that identify their QB and have the brass pair to take them or trade up and get them get rewarded. If Shanny identifies an elite QB- and it seems that it is one of the skills he might be good at- we need to trade up and get him regardless of the price. two first, two second....no problem. We will never win a SB drafting Olinemen and ignoring QB. We wasted Samuels and Jansen's careers doing that. Its a QB league. If you dont have one, you have no hope.

I donj't care how elite the QB is.. You but a young QB with mountains of potential behind our current Oline and you'll ruin him.. Point blank. We saw it with Ramsey (Spurrier's BS blocking schemes), we saw it with Jason Campbell are these elite QB's coming out of the draft.. No, but Ramsey was smart enough and Campbell was smart enough and athletic enough to be more than servicable but you see these guys get hammered week after week and you see the shell shock in their eyes..

[Oldfan]

The point is: This team needs to do whatever it can to get multiple picks.

Trading down is usually a good idea every year because the teams wanting to trade up are willing to pay a premium to do it.

As a rule, trading picks for vets and trading up are win-now moves that the consistently mediocre teams like ours use to stay mediocre.

[UK_HOG]

Trading up for Luck will make the trade for McNabb one of the worst trades the Franchise has ever made (and there's plenty to choose from). Whatever we do at the next draft we will still have a poor team next season as it is going to take a long time to fix the roster. Unless the BPA is a position of need I would try to trade down if possible.

[Koolblue13]

The FA peri0d is g0ing t0 be awes0me next year. Keep 0ur s0lid pick and d0n't trade anything. We sh0uld be able t0 get a s0lid talent that will help this team f0r a l0ng time.

[fish]

I feel that way about 5 guys in this draft where we can't pass them up IMO

Andrew Luck

Patrick Peterson

Nick Fairley

AJ Green

Robert Quinn

Those 5 guys I'd say where we were and take them no question

NO WAY on Fairley - the 2nd coming of Fat Albert! That guy is a thug and not even THAT great of a player. I saw him selfishly celebrate the only good play of the first half against BAMA and nullify thta play due to his selfish celebration. I saw him time and time again inflict cheap shots on the UGA QB.

NO way do I even want this guy on our team, let alone trade up for.

Luck is the ONLY guy I'd recommend we trade up for - period. And I wouldn't let him play a down next year either.

---------- Post added December-11th-2010 at 10:43 AM ----------

Trading down is usually a good idea every year because the teams wanting to trade up are willing to pay a premium to do it.

As a rule, trading picks for vets and trading up are win-now moves that the consistently mediocre teams like ours use to stay mediocre.

Agreed 100%, but how often does trading down occur? These days, rightly or wrongly, draft picks are considered VERY valuable; the consensus "proper" method of building a good team. As such, the team trading down usually does not get the better of the deal, even if they can even find a trading partner. "Trading down" is easier said than done and while I would agree that ti would be nice, not sure we would get good deals.

[Oldfan]

...Agreed 100%, but how often does trading down occur? These days, rightly or wrongly, draft picks are considered VERY valuable; the consensus "proper" method of building a good team. As such, the team trading down usually does not get the better of the deal, even if they can even find a trading partner. "Trading down" is easier said than done and while I would agree that ti would be nice, not sure we would get good deals.

Trading down isn't something a team can plan for, but it happens more often than it should because most of the teams in the NFL are in a win-now mode. Didn't the Patriots trade down three or four times in the last draft?

[joeknows]

ok i usually work on saturdays so i dont get to see much college ball and im not really into it that much anyway... so i had to look up this andrew luck guy because i have heard so much about him here lately.

CzudT5dMgq0&vq=hd720

kid looks good on the field... quick with a nice quick release. only thing i saw that concerns me at the pro level is he seems to stare down his receivers a bit. im sure they can fix that but it is one liability that i see... otherwise the kid looks outstanding!

ALSO it appears that he has crazy good protection too... plenty of time to make things happen.

[Veretax]

doesn't Carolina already have Jimmy Clausen? I'm not so sure their issue is at QB. I think it was the other positions.

[Gerald362]

He does look good in the clip you posted, including his mechanics and arm strength. The thing that bothers me is his OL and WR's look much better than the Skins. How will he perform with no time to set(although his arm strength may allow more planned rollouts and scrambles) and no WR's fighting for the ball. How well will he handle playing for a mediocre team with no support is the question we would have to guess at.

ok i usually work on saturdays so i dont get to see much college ball and im not really into it that much anyway... so i had to look up this andrew luck guy because i have heard so much about him here lately.

CzudT5dMgq0&vq=hd720

kid looks good on the field... quick with a nice quick release. only thing i saw that concerns me at the pro level is he seems to stare down his receivers a bit. im sure they can fix that but it is one liability that i see... otherwise the kid looks outstanding!

ALSO it appears that he has crazy good protection too... plenty of time to make things happen.

[Est.1974]

Maybe even a combination of things, 1st, 3rd, and 4th for 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th

No chance of this, the 3rd & 4th have already gone.

Trading back is easier said than done. I wouldn't be against the idea if we are going to target pick some interior linemen and linebackers. They could be had further back in the first & second rounds. I think we can expect a busy time in the FA market. If we do that, I'd be happy sticking where we are in the draft. Gotta make those first two picks starters though.

Rocky Mc (don't know his worth?)

Santana Moss(Stock went up.. 3rd rounder)

Andre Carter (5th round pick)

These will all be free agents after this season.

[NavyDave]

The way things have been going on with this franchise, if we sign Andrew and he plays behind a line like this he'll be called S.Outta Luck or just Bad luck

Carolina is going to get their Franchise QB and if they feel Luck is in that category he is not getting past them.

We could always sign Newton

Seriously, trading down to gather more picks and draft a franchise Center, franchise Guard and defensive linemen gets my support.

[darrelgreenie]

A few simple questions for those in favor of trading up to take Luck:

1) Can we start Luck and contend next year?

2) Can we trade up for Luck with out passing up the chance to address the areas of major weakness with the top round draft picks?

3) Can you name a successful young QB that had immediate success behind an OL as bad as ours?

4) Do you agree that Shanahan knows how to evaluate the QB position? if yes then....

Do you trust Shanahan to find our future longterm QB when the time is right? (regardless of method FA, 1st round pick in 2012, etc)?

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

Seriously, trading down to gather more picks and draft a franchise Center, franchise Guard and defensive linemen gets my support.

I could not agree more!!! We need the O line and a stud center

[Forever21]

We go through this trading down thing every year and it never works out how we want it to.

Ideally sure, someone falls to us that another team is in love with and willing to give up picks for. Most likely however we end up keeping our pick and hopefully getting a great OL (or dumb luck and Luck falls to us and we absolutely have to take him if he does).

[Commander Adama]

I say stay where we are and draft Ryan Mallet. We will still have about 7 draft picks in the draft, excluding any additional trades in the off-season.

[Frostx08]

I agree with trading down. We could probably get some real value that way. I say we get a speedy receiver with a great 40 time in the 2nd or later rounds, and use the other picks for some other key positions

I have to disagree.

We tried that a few years ago and it got us David, Kelly and Thomas.

Look at the playoffs. All the teams have elite QBs. The obvious is that McCrap is not an elite QB. We need to trade up and grab one of the elite QBs then we can spend the rest of the next 10 years drafting whatever lower important position players you want.

QB first, then it doesnt matter. That is the nature of the NFL now.

:ols:

You are just on fire with your irrational posts as of late

[addicted]

I posted this in another thread and think it should be considered. This would be my offseason draft plan. If what many of you are saying is true that we can't go offensive line with a top 10 draft pick then the answer is to do one of the following for max return on the teams rebuilding plan:

Option A - Players for picks. We need to package a TE - Cooley or Davis doesn't matter - and McNabb and ship them to Arizona for multiple picks in the 2-4th rounds. The Cardinals would get instant improvement at QB and TE areas where they have need and in return we would get there 2nd, 3rd, and 4th picks. Arizona could then use there first for a RB and be greatly improved at all of the skill positions and keep Fitzgerald happy for another year. We would get three higher round picks at the cost of McNabb who's an aging QB with a bad contract and Cooley who is getting up in age as well. With these 3 extra picks we must draft our future Franchise QB along with the next generation of the Hogs. For next season we'd need to pick up a free agent QB because there is no way in hell this town is going to have Rex Grossman as it's QB. As for now I'd find a way to get Beck in the game now to see if he offers anything. If we lose out we would have better picks in every round. Can't really lose if we lose. Along with this I'd trade Hanyesworth for the best offer and we now have a lot of picks to improve the teams offensive line and QB position

Option B - Trade the first and a players for more picks. No one wants to trade up into the top of the first round these days. So to entice teams to move up lets give them a player too. We trade them Cooley or McNabb for there 2, 3.and 4th picks. A few teams are a couple of players away who might be interested in this. We then have multiple 2's and a 3rd and 4th round pick we don't have now.

Option C - Go all in for the Hogs and the Franchise QB. This is the year that we need to follow up on the plan of rebuilding the offensive line. We can not forget that we also need a franchise QB. Without these two things the offense won't work. This year in our wins we scored a combined 82 points (13 + 17 + 16 + 17 + 19). We need to block better, protect better, and dominate the line of scrimmage. Only then this offense will get going. The Defense sucks there is no denying that however what's the worst thing about Shannahan's drafting record? The man can't spot Defensive players. Shannahan can find offensive weapons. We need to play to the coaches strengths not his weaknesses. Offensive lines are delicate and take a while to gel. Great offensive lines are together for a long time, learn to trust each other, learn how to play together, etc. Now combine all of this and it makes the most sense to me that we built the offensive line this season. If we can't draft an offensive linemen with our first and no teams are willing to trade with us then it makes sense to me that with that first pick we draft our Aaron Rogers or our Mike Vick so he can sit and learn under McNabb and with our other picks we draft all offensive linemen. Doing this and hitting on it is huge. First our future QB situation is settled. Second we protect McNabb better next season and grow our offensive line. Guards and Centers. In Free Agency we bring in our Defensive Linemen, re-sign Rogers, re-sign McIntosh, and Golston. As well we bring in Shaun Hill from Detroit and get rid of Grossman, sign a RB like Ahmad Bradshaw who's 27 or Deangelo Williams, re-sign Moss and sign Braylon Edwards or Santonio Holmes whichever the Jets decide is second fiddle to them and we are good. If we've really cleared the cap then we could afford to do something like this. We have a complete team makeover, our franchise QB of the future, our new and improved offensive line and new offensive weapons at the price of the teams defense. Team defense is what is winning us games but we have to balance this team better to have a shot next year. And we will never turn the offense around until we address the offensive line and this position needs depth. We have the leagues worst depth at this most important position and it's time that stops.

[tonyriggins]

If we had traded down last year instead of Trent Williams he could of gotten OT Bulaga and take a WR with xtra pick in the 2nd rd perhaps Golden Tate. We would have been better off doing something like this.

[hitmandm]

I agree with trading down. We could probably get some real value that way. I say we get a speedy receiver with a great 40 time in the 2nd or later rounds, and use the other picks for some other key positions

:ols:

You are just on fire with your irrational posts as of late

Ha. Forgive me if I don't allow someone like you to be the judge of quality.

---------- Post added December-11th-2010 at 12:22 PM ----------

People who constantly think we should draft stud centers and guards over a stud QB are not watching football in the 2000's. Im convinced they are watching 1980's football recorded on their VHS over and over

[addicted]

If we had traded down last year instead of Trent Williams he could of gotten OT Bulaga and take a WR with xtra pick in the 2nd rd perhaps Golden Tate. We would have been better off doing something like this.

Which is exactly why trading down is never going to happen. This is a fans dream, but it doesn't happen with top 10 picks for a reason

[hitmandm]

I posted this in another thread and think it should be considered. This would be my offseason draft plan. If what many of you are saying is true that we can't go offensive line with a top 10 draft pick then the answer is to do one of the following for max return on the teams rebuilding plan:

Option A - Players for picks. We need to package a TE - Cooley or Davis doesn't matter - and McNabb and ship them to Arizona for multiple picks in the 2-4th rounds. The Cardinals would get instant improvement at QB and TE areas where they have need and in return we would get there 2nd, 3rd, and 4th picks. Arizona could then use there first for a RB and be greatly improved at all of the skill positions and keep Fitzgerald happy for another year. We would get three higher round picks at the cost of McNabb who's an aging QB with a bad contract and Cooley who is getting up in age as well. With these 3 extra picks we must draft our future Franchise QB along with the next generation of the Hogs. For next season we'd need to pick up a free agent QB because there is no way in hell this town is going to have Rex Grossman as it's QB. As for now I'd find a way to get Beck in the game now to see if he offers anything. If we lose out we would have better picks in every round. Can't really lose if we lose. Along with this I'd trade Hanyesworth for the best offer and we now have a lot of picks to improve the teams offensive line and QB position

Option B - Trade the first and a players for more picks. No one wants to trade up into the top of the first round these days. So to entice teams to move up lets give them a player too. We trade them Cooley or McNabb for there 2, 3.and 4th picks. A few teams are a couple of players away who might be interested in this. We then have multiple 2's and a 3rd and 4th round pick we don't have now.

Option C - Go all in for the Hogs and the Franchise QB. This is the year that we need to follow up on the plan of rebuilding the offensive line. We can not forget that we also need a franchise QB. Without these two things the offense won't work. This year in our wins we scored a combined 82 points (13 + 17 + 16 + 17 + 19). We need to block better, protect better, and dominate the line of scrimmage. Only then this offense will get going. The Defense sucks there is no denying that however what's the worst thing about Shannahan's drafting record? The man can't spot Defensive players. Shannahan can find offensive weapons. We need to play to the coaches strengths not his weaknesses. Offensive lines are delicate and take a while to gel. Great offensive lines are together for a long time, learn to trust each other, learn how to play together, etc. Now combine all of this and it makes the most sense to me that we built the offensive line this season. If we can't draft an offensive linemen with our first and no teams are willing to trade with us then it makes sense to me that with that first pick we draft our Aaron Rogers or our Mike Vick so he can sit and learn under McNabb and with our other picks we draft all offensive linemen. Doing this and hitting on it is huge. First our future QB situation is settled. Second we protect McNabb better next season and grow our offensive line. Guards and Centers. In Free Agency we bring in our Defensive Linemen, re-sign Rogers, re-sign McIntosh, and Golston. As well we bring in Shaun Hill from Detroit and get rid of Grossman, sign a RB like Ahmad Bradshaw who's 27 or Deangelo Williams, re-sign Moss and sign Braylon Edwards or Santonio Holmes whichever the Jets decide is second fiddle to them and we are good. If we've really cleared the cap then we could afford to do something like this. We have a complete team makeover, our franchise QB of the future, our new and improved offensive line and new offensive weapons at the price of the teams defense. Team defense is what is winning us games but we have to balance this team better to have a shot next year. And we will never turn the offense around until we address the offensive line and this position needs depth. We have the leagues worst depth at this most important position and it's time that stops.

I rather have C. You have to start with a franchise QB ASAP. We drafted a top 5 LT, now lets draft a QB. Trade whatever it takes to get one this draft, if Shanny thinks theyre elite, and then I could care less how many times we draft down and how many OL picks we stock in the future. While its not always the case, going up in the draft for the QB and down for everybody else is the way to do it with the best chances of a positive outcome.

[Dro89]

Looking at the draft order i could see a team like St Louis Trading up and giving us their first and 2nd for a player like Julio to pair with bradford.... just my opinion though.

maybe something like this

1st

2nd

2nd

3rd

3rd

4th

4th

5th

6th

7th

7th

trade the 1st (considering were top 8-10) to St. Louis (who is 21st in draft order right now) for their 1st and 2nd. Now Trade Cooley for a 2nd... OR a 3rd and 4th.. probably the 3rd and 4th is more obtainable. denver looks like a good team to try to send him to.

Albert trade him to Detriot for a 3rd and 4th. Or just a 4th i really think we can get a 3rd and 4th from them though. now comes the Andre Carter trade send him to someone for a 5th... now take that 5th use it to obtain Kelly Gregg from Baltimore and use him in the rotation of our 3-4 defense as the true NT..

chances of all this happening are slim to none, BUT if they could somehow hammer this out while adding additions such as Davin Joseph , Vincent Jackson , Ryan Kalil to sure up the O-line and WR positions.. now most of those picks can be used on Defense to retool and rebuild this defense with players like Von Miller, Allen Bailey, get another G or T maybe a Rodney Hudson. Then add depth to Dline with later picks maybe a Phil Taylor... then you have good RB choices in the mid rounds.. Devine, Murray.. This imo is the best option..